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Confusing advice - diabetes diagnosis

Re: confusing advice

This is probably a daft question but is DUK the same as this website Diabetes.co.uk ?
No. DUK aka Diabetes UK is the charity - web site http://www.diabetes.org.uk/

If Ian had been in training for a few sets with Nadal then maybe he would have needed that many but otherwise for a man of his age (sorry Ian) far too many.

As a professional scientist, & someone scared by the warnings of complications, I sought carefully to follow the advice I was given. Until the complications set in, I was playing tennis 3 times a week (6 hours), plus 2 gym sessions. (2½ hours) My weight was stable at 13 st, & had dropped 7 lb since diagnosis. Since the recovery by low carb, I have been playing as much tennis & gym, wt has fluctuated around 12 st (BMI=25-26). I'm 72.

The [Exeter] control group were put on diet that created an energy deficit - so based upon their calorie requirements to maintain the wt they were I believe they used a 400-500 calorie deficit. So I assume it was based on 50 % CHO.
The results are clear - at the end of the trial there was virtually no difference although the LC group lost wt faster in the initial phase - we know why as generally LC are consuming a lower calorie intake!
My own snapshot analysis on here showed that too!

Looking at the available info from Exeter, the warnings DUK constantly sound concerning low carb are absolutely groundless. Until we get more info, we can't comment on the relative merits of the diets as used in the 2 year study. The 3 month study pointed the way to low carb, resulting in the 2 year study.

Just quoting one point from the Swedish 44 month study:
Considering the solid evidence for the negative effect of hyperglycemia on diabetes complications as well as cardiovascular disease the present high-carbohydrate dietary advice resulting in unnecessary hyperglycemia and insulin resistance seems difficult to support [17-19] and for diabetes patients, current dietary recommendations seem to be a major part of their problem rather than being part of the solution. Carbohydrate restriction, however, reverses or neutralises all aspects of the metabolic syndrome [20,21].
 
Re: confussing advice

Hi Allyx

First off - sorry if I seem to be hassling you! I'm not - I know you're very busy.

I think I may be inclined to agree with you, that an atkins-type diet is not necessarily overloaded with fat. The emphasis is, don't avoid fat, preferably obtained from unprocessed sources.

My fat intake comes from: butter; cheese; olive oil; Hellman's full-fat mayonnaise (the low-fat has sugar in it - makes your point perfectly); eggs; semi-skimmed milk (2 pints per week, for coffee); cream (but prob no more than 2 tbspns 3 times a week max.); 1 avocado about once a fortnight; oily fish at least twice a week; I don't cut fat off meat, and I eat hot and crispy poultry skin but can't bear it cold!

I also take 1 x 1000mg Omega 3 oil capsule, and 2 teaspoons flax oil, daily.

All the meat and poultry I buy is locally produced, and as free-range as I can get it (eggs too), though not necessarily organic. Our fell-raised lamb and native-breed beef is superb, and I buy rare breed free range pork. I eat (farmed) venison casserole at least once a month.

All the above translates into 2 eggs daily; no more than 4oz cheese, probably every other day; I fry with butter or olive oil or sometimes lard, depending what I'm frying, but I never fry very hot (except omelettes); I prefer to let things cook thoroughly and quite gently. Besides, I hate cleaning frying splashes off the cooker (I hate cleaning the cooker :shock: ).

Breakfast is almost always a 2-egg omelette, cooked in about half-an-ounce (10 - 15g)of butter.

Lunch is usually a salad (lettuce, 6 - 8 cherry toms, 6 - 8 radishes, maybe about 2 inches of cucumber, a couple of slices of red or orange pepper, a stick of celery) with whatever cold meat I have, or a tin (130g-ish) of tuna in sunflower oil with the oil drained off, or smoked salmon, or mackerel, and 1 - 2 tablespoons of mayonnaise. If I have an avocado salad it's a whole avocado, with flax-seed oil and cider vinegar dressing instead of the mayonnaise.

Evening meal is meat or poultry with either another salad or hot veg. Hot veg is usually broccoli and/or cauliflower, sometimes a few carrots. Butter on the veg - maybe 25g? sometimes mayonnaise too :oops: but not as much as at lunchtime.

Meat portions - well, a chicken will usually last me 5 meals; a portion of red meat, eg in a stir-fry, will be about 6oz raw weight; the same for fish. I'll eat 3 or 4 pork sausages at a sitting, but they are always the lowest carb I can find - 1 or 2 g per sausage. I've no idea of the fat content. I fry them slowly with a little bit of lard. Sausages less than once a week.

Sometimes I make an enormous ratatouille (2 tablespoons olive oil is the only fat) and eat it once or twice with grated cheese (1.5oz?), then bake a piece of tuna or salmon in some, or sausages or a pork steak.

I will very occasionally eat bread (Tesco wholemeal multigrain, which doesn't affect my bg as long as it's occasionally. I freeze a small sliced loaf and pull out 2 slices at a time.). I eat either oatcakes or ryvita almost every day, one or two, with butter. I butter the ryvita on the holes not the smooth side! :oops:

Snacks are a bit of cheese (1 - 2oz), or a few nuts and seeds. I don't snack every day. I have one small apple daily. At this time of year I eat most fruit - strawberries, raspberries, blueberries, apricots, nectarines, greengages - but only one large portion daily. That's where the cream comes in! I also occasionally eat 'live' Greek yoghurt, sheep or goat if I can get it, for the good of my gut.

I probably eat more at my meals than most "normal" people. I also used to drink heavily, a bottle of red wine a day - when I think back I don't see how I survived, though I did try not to drink the night before I had any distance driving to do, and I never drink after about 8pm - I drink before eating and not after. Alcohol takes 48 hours to clear the bloodstream, if I remember correctly, and once you've drunk enough to be over the limit you need at least 12 hours without it before you are legal to drive in the UK.

The trouble is that the alcohol leads to overeating, apart from its own calorie content. It could be that it was not drinking when doing Atkins the first time that did the job - certainly weight loss this time is much slower, even though I am now only drinking at a weekend, and then only one bottle. I'm trying to stay off it completely - I know I can, I've done it before - but I do like it! I have noticed, whatever it does to my bg levels at the time, that they are just a little higher during the day when I'm drinking in the evenings, than when I'm not. My incentive to stay off the wine at the moment is my next HbA1c on June 20th.

I'll do a food diary next week, and calorie count, just for interest. If you'd like to see it (when you've time) I'd appreciate your comments.

There! another 10-page essay :wink: :roll: Sorry :D

Viv 8)
 
Re: confussing advice

I get confused by people saying that they are low carbing...what level of CHO grams counts as lowcarbing...

I eat a lot of vegetables, and when using my lloyds pharmacy carb counting scales they work out even the carbohydrates for lettuce, cucumber, garlic, peppers, asparagus, leeks and veg etc......and it is suprising just how many carbs there are in the veg alone......

I know this was extreme to measure all the salad and veg, but I wanted to know exactly what I could count correctly-especially when I was first diagnosed 26 years ago, I was told that I did not have to count the carbs in veg and salad.


Do people that are low carbing actually count the carbs in their veg and salad foods-or do they do as I was told 26 years ago, that they do not have to be counted.

I don't want to make this in to a huge issue, I am just interested whether low carbers actually count the carbs in veg and salad products??
 
Re: confussing advice

On the basic Atkins Induction diet, he's done the carb counting for you.

If you look at my 'Modified Atkins Diet' thread, that basic diet, without the Allbran, oatcakes and crispbreads that are my additions, comes to 20g of carb per day, all sourced from the allowed vegetables/salad stuff. On my version it's probably more like 25g carb per day - I think I've allowed more weight of veg, though they are the same list as Atkins gives. I added the rhubarb :lol:

Once you start increasing your carbs in the Ongoing Weight Loss stage, you do it by 5g carb at a time. He gives suggestions, or you can measure your own. That's when you have to start weighing, measuring, and doing the math! :shock:

I think I call 25g - 50g low; 50g to 100g moderate; anything over 150g, getting high. But that's just in my opinion. Anything below 25g would be extremely low carb, which is fine too, in my opinion, if it suits you.

I seem to slow down above 40g, and stop losing weight at about 70g.

Viv 8)
 
Re: confussing advice

To answer your question from my personal view - I count carbs in EVERYTHING, salat, veg, meat, drinks ... the lot! LOL But also calories, fat and protein. Well I used to, these days I know pretty much what is in what and I just stick with Carbs and Cals.

I have not followed any variation of the Atkins diet, but have found my own lifestyle diet - that after getting advice from experienced low carbers on how to go about it and then testing 1 and 2 hours after eating to test Bg reaction to various foods.

I believe that the agreed level for low carbing can be found in one of the pinned starter threads, I cannot remember off hand but something rings a bell around 30-50 carb/day - personally I have a level of max 60 carb/day.


Love
Alice


donnellysdogs said:
I get confused by people saying that they are low carbing...what level of CHO grams counts as lowcarbing...

I eat a lot of vegetables, and when using my lloyds pharmacy carb counting scales they work out even the carbohydrates for lettuce, cucumber, garlic, peppers, asparagus, leeks and veg etc......and it is suprising just how many carbs there are in the veg alone......

I know this was extreme to measure all the salad and veg, but I wanted to know exactly what I could count correctly-especially when I was first diagnosed 26 years ago, I was told that I did not have to count the carbs in veg and salad.


Do people that are low carbing actually count the carbs in their veg and salad foods-or do they do as I was told 26 years ago, that they do not have to be counted.

I don't want to make this in to a huge issue, I am just interested whether low carbers actually count the carbs in veg and salad products??
 
Re: confussing advice

For me, the carbs from starch and the carbs from carrots are two completely different things.
I'm one of the very lucky ones, I can eat parsnips, beetroot and even pineapple without much reaction to my BS at all, but a slice of nimble, (9grams of carb) has it soaring.

Has a cheeseburger for lunch at a rather nice cafe last week, no bun of course. Two hours later I tested because I was hungry and it came back as a 6.9, way above what it would normally be. I called the cafe and they told me they put breadcrumbs in the burgers. The rest of the day was spent trying not to give in to those bl**dy cravings.

wiflib
 
Re: confussing advice

Yes the terminology is confusing. I had kind of come to think of Low-carbers as
people who have an interest in eating less carb and so looked always at carbohyrate content and chose the product with the least carbohydrate.
and the low carb diet as being a diet chosen by such people.
I suppose some people depending on their diet would still end up with relatively high carbs but I’d still class them as low carbers because of my definition. I had come to realise that even those on Atkins vary significantly in the amounts of low carbs they can tolerate, carb toleration thus defining their own regulation level - which I see in much the same way as viv explains.

love the idea of the carb counting scales are they expensive?
Im really struggling with the idea of giving up bread (and biscuits) forever and not having a good substitute. I'm hoping I wont need to but have to admit to being worried.
SPARKLES
 
Re: confussing advice

Alcohol takes 48 hours to clear the bloodstream, if I remember correctly, and once you've drunk enough to be over the limit you need at least 12 hours without it before you are legal to drive in the UK.

This is not strictly true.
The liver processes alcohol at roughly one unit per hour, so if you drink 4 units which would take the average person up to the legal drink drive limit they would need four hours to clear it from their system.
They would be legal to drive after one or two hours...... not that I'm suggesting anyone tries it! :)
 
Re: confussing advice

Hi dib

I'm sure you're right about alcohol/liver processing. But I do know that some people have been breathalysed by the police, in the morning on the way to work, and still found to be over the limit :shock: (must have been a great session!)

I think the alcohol in the bloodstream is a bit like the radioactive half-life - 48 hours later there's very little, but still some left. However, I'm not an expert, so I'm not arguing. I just don;t drive withing 12 hours of drinking (not any more, at any rate :lol: . It was a great life :oops: :lol: :shock: !)

Viv 8)
 
Re: confussing advice

One of the problems is that the amount of alcohol in one unit is actually quite small, and the drinks that we pour ourselves or even buy in the pubs often contain more than one unit. Making it dfficult to know just how many units we are having in a drinking session.

Which means that the next morning our bodies are still frantically trying to process the alcohol at a unit an hour, but we haven't given it enough time to clear it completely.

A half a pint of ordinary strength bear is 1 unit - if a man has 5 pint he is having 10 units of alcohol, if he drinks the modern stronger beers he is having far more. So if he stops drinking at 11.00 at night and is up for work at 6.00 the next morning his body may not have had time to process all the alcohol.

One 125 mil glass of wine has 1and a half units of alcohol and a bottle may have 9 units.
 
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