COVID 2019 Comorbidity with Diabetes

[lucylocket61]

We should spare a thought for what will happen in the shanty towns of Africa and the favelas of South America,
I hope there is a way soon of stopping this plague.
D.

My hope is that as the populations there are younger, they might have more resistance. I worry about India too.

 

[Winnie53]

Cheers @Winnie53

knew the ins and outs of that since keeping up on twitters but it was very neatly explained
worth spending time watching for those who wonder if it is all just too much panicking.
sound reasoning behind it.

Btw have seen the numbers for Italy to day.. 6, 000 + new cases..

jjraak, I was looking at the graph in the video that compared the actions of two cities during the second wave of the Spanish Flu pandemic in Philadelphia and St. Louis in the Fall of 1918. Philadelphia went ahead with their parade attended by 200,000; St. Louis closed schools, playgrounds, even churches, work shifts were changed, public gatherings of more than 20 people were banned.

The results were dramatically different. It looks like it took Philadelphia 4 weeks to get through the worst of it with many more deaths compared to St. Louis' deaths spread out over a longer, more manageable period of time.

I was wondering how the deaths compared and found this...

According to a 2007 analysis of Spanish flu death records, the peak mortality rate in St. Louis was only one-eighth of Philadelphia’s death rate at its worst. That’s not to say that St. Louis survived the epidemic unharmed. Dehner says the midwestern city was hit particularly hard by the third wave of the Spanish flu which returned in the late winter and spring of 1919.
https://www.history.com/news/spanish-flu-pandemic-response-cities
​

And this...

The social distancing precautions had a positive effect, as excess deaths in St. Louis were 347 per 100,000 people -- less than half the rate of Philadelphia.
https://www.wsls.com/features/2020/...-the-results-couldnt-have-been-more-opposite/
​

And this...

If St. Louis had waited another week or two, they might have fared the same as Philadelphia, says the lead author on the first study, Richard Hatchett, M.D., an associate director for emergency preparedness at NIAID. Despite the fact that these cities had dramatically different outcomes early on, all the cities in the survey ultimately experienced significant epidemics because, in the absence of an effective vaccine, the virus continued to spread or recurred as cities relaxed their restrictions.
https://www.nih.gov/news-events/new...onse-was-crucial-containing-1918-flu-pandemic​

After reading these three articles, I'm better able to understand why we'll see another cycle of COVID-19 during the next flu season which puts us out to May 2021. Hopefully we'll have a vaccine prior to the beginning of the 2021/2022 flu season.

Interestingly, my habits haven't changed that much, pre-COVID-19 and now. Because I supported someone through two years of chemotherapy and radiation, I got in the habit of compulsive hand washing and surface cleaning 10+ years ago. That said, after spending a couple of hours on the phone with one of my extroverted friends today - (I'm introverted) - I can see that our new "normal" will be much harder for those who who are extroverted.

 

[jjraak]

Winnie, i love ya

but from what i am reading its too late

the virus has hit the uk.

newspapers are saying how bad it is .
doctors on twitter are saying how bad it is.

please don't learn OUR lesson the hard way.

see what we did.
see how wrong it went.
tell your people THIS is real

THIS IS coming your way.

stay strong
stay well

 

[Winnie53]

Yeah I'm aware that humans don't synthesise vitamin C. Ten grams still seems rather a lot to me, but I'm far from an expert. I would question the validity of an n=50 experiment, but that's another subject. I think people should just be mindful that it is, apparently, possible to overdose on the stuff. I don't think we want anxious people eating vitamin C tablets like Smarties

Jim, I know of no evidence that it's possible to overdose on vitamin C. I'm taking at total of 2 g a day right now, spaced out throughout the day. Not sure, but I think I was able to take 4-5 g a day before I developed "rumbly tummy" or what's called "bowel tolerance". I think I finally settled on taking 3 g a day during the end of flu season in early 2019. Right now, my husband is taking 5 g a day. If I get COVID-19, I'll definitely up my intake to the 10 to 20 g range spaced out throughout the day. Goal is to stay out of the hospital if possible. Any amount of time in the hospital will cost me $5000 or more.

When we become ill, the body needs/makes use of significantly more vitamin C. I think in one of her videos, internist and nephrologist Suzanne Humphries discusses personally taking 30 g a day when ill or flying. And cancer patients who use IV vitamin C therapy often are administered 100 g or more.

What concerns me more is the sweeteners, food colorings, and other additives that are in the chewable vitamin C tablets. Yuck. I much prefer the powder form - (ascorbic acid or sodium ascorbate measured and taken with water. It's a lot cheaper too.

All that said, excessive dosing of some nutritional supplements can be very harmful. One report that comes to mind was a man who took 25,000 IU of vitamin D3 a day for 6 months and calcified all his arteries.

I'll never understand the need to do anything in excess, particularly nutritional supplements. The ones of good quality are not cheap and I'd rather take only what I truly need and spend the rest of my money on food and other things I greatly enjoy.

 

[Winnie53]

jjraak, I'm tracking the US and UK numbers daily now, and comparing them. While the deaths in your country are far, far greater than ours, when comparing percent of population who have tested positive between our two countries, we're only trailing a few days behind you now. That said, I know it's going to get a lot worse.

Everything but the essential services is closed down in our city now. The courthouse where I work is now closed to the public. I'll probably only be able to work one more week before our department changes over to a skeleton crew.

Are your pubs still open for business or have they finally shut down? That's true madness. In every community there will always be those who just don't get it...until it's too late. We had the same problem here until the governor of our state finally shut the bars and other non-essential businesses down. We have a university here, so that was a welcomed closure.

 

[Winnie53]

Thanks for asking after me, @Winnie53 - mostly I'm just waiting and hoping this crazy hoarding fetish stops. Any time of the day, drive by the local shopping centres and it looks like a non-stop Christmas Eve panic going on. Two whole weeks of total insanity and today is just as bad as all the other days. Crackers!

Re. the above, at least as far as pulmonary fibrosis, NAC is not as straight forward as it may seem. A recent study was stopped but after analysis of genetic factors, they discovered that NAC works well for people with a particular SNP but actually causes harm to people without the SNP. Now planning a further study with pre-screening for the SNP. Recently watched an interesting presentation on the PANTHER study from the recent PF conference (https://www.nhlbi.nih.gov/grants-and-training/panther-ipf-faqs)

On a personal level, I tried NAC supplementation briefly last year - firstly, the capsules give off the most disgusting smell, but did my best to hold my nose and swallow. After only a few doses, next thing I was salivating like crazy, followed by overwhelming nausea and throwing up - thankfully reached the sink just in time. Experiment stopped! I feel sick again just thinking about it.

From the PANTHER Study review above: Common side effects include nausea, stomach pain, vomiting, diarrhea, rash, hives, itching, fever, drowsiness, headache, migraine, reduced blood pressure, rapid heart rate, and ringing in the ears.

I'm so sorry to hear that you do not benefit from taking NAC. SNP's can be a problem. I read the linked information this morning. Thank you for sharing it with me. Glad there's still research going on for your condition. Hoping something will come along that's helpful for you.

My husband, whose friend was diagnosed with PF last year, has him doing all kinds of things in addition to taking the metformin that the doctor prescribed: briefly standing in the shower with the cold water running, brrr, and red light therapy with a 10 x 16 inch panel. (The latter is my husband's newest obsession; he's determined to heal his heart and actually is seeing signs of improvement). Happily, two doctors have commented that his friend's lungs sound significantly better which is so encouraging for him. Can't remember if imaging showed improvement too. Who knows why or how long his improved condition will last. He hasn't tried stem cell therapy yet, but perhaps will in the future.

After some craziness here in the grocery stores, things are starting to calm down. Putting limits on some items has really helped. I wish the stores had done that sooner. We're stocked up with a week or more of food. And like those in China, we'll try to limit grocery shopping to once a week. I spent an hour or more reorganizing the contents of our refrigerator. In recent months I found two OXO vegetable bins at the thrift store so have three now which makes it so much easier to find what I'm looking for. Need to work on the freezer next.

 

[Winnie53]

how can someone who is classed as vulnerable , self isolate as much as possible when they have to go out to buy food

Jane, I'm not sure. Have you let anyone in your community know you need help? Perhaps by calling around? Is there a church, or senior center, or government agency nearby? Where do seniors in your area go for help? Perhaps others here will have suggestions. I hope so...

 

[Member496333]

Jim, I know of no evidence that it's possible to overdose on vitamin C. I'm taking at total of 2 g a day right now, spaced out throughout the day. Not sure, but I think I was able to take 4-5 g a day before I developed "rumbly tummy" or what's called "bowel tolerance". I think I finally settled on taking 3 g a day during the end of flu season in early 2019. Right now, my husband is taking 5 g a day. If I get COVID-19, I'll definitely up my intake to the 10 to 20 g range spaced out throughout the day. Goal is to stay out of the hospital if possible. Any amount of time in the hospital will cost me $5000 or more.

When we become ill, the body needs/makes use of significantly more vitamin C. I think in one of her videos, internist and nephrologist Suzanne Humphries discusses personally taking 30 g a day when ill or flying. And cancer patients who use IV vitamin C therapy often are administered 100 g or more.

What concerns me more is the sweeteners, food colorings, and other additives that are in the chewable vitamin C tablets. Yuck. I much prefer the powder form - (ascorbic acid or sodium ascorbate measured and taken with water. It's a lot cheaper too.

All that said, excessive dosing of some nutritional supplements can be very harmful. One report that comes to mind was a man who took 25,000 IU of vitamin D3 a day for 6 months and calcified all his arteries.

I'll never understand the need to do anything in excess, particularly nutritional supplements. The ones of good quality are not cheap and I'd rather take only what I truly need and spend the rest of my money on food and other things I greatly enjoy.

I don't wish to be mean but you are contradicting yourself a little bit there? On the one hand you say you're not sure it's possible to overdose on vitamin C but on the other hand you say what happens when you take too much.

By overdose, I simply meant too much. Enough to have undesirable side effects. In fact you're even describing side effects at the ballpark dosage we were talking about

 

[Bill_St]

Too often we see politicians and their cohorts pronouncing opinion on the media.
Too often we see figures hidden or obfuscated. Even the morbidity.

A useful source of Medical data and opinion can be found here - Don’t miss the most read - unless you would prefer to stay in Denial.

https://www.thelancet.com/coronavirus

 

[Member496333]

Too often we see politicians and their cohorts pronouncing opinion on the media.
Too often we see figures hidden or obfuscated. Even the morbidity.

A useful source of Medical data and opinion can be found here - Don’t miss the most read - unless you would prefer to stay in Denial.

https://www.thelancet.com/coronavirus

You had me right up until the Lancet part. They're not exactly known for being the paragon of impeccable science and impartial research. I have no reason to begin listening to anything they publish now, even if it's all correct and unimpeachable

 

[lindisfel]

We should realize all science is provisional, so we test our sources against the accuracy they demand.
Peer reviewed science is not perfect but pretty good.
I wish these obfuscating politicians were peer reviewed.

Sorry to hear they are planning mass graves in the uk now, in case the worst happens.
D.

 

[Brunneria]

Sorry to hear they are planning mass graves in the uk now, in case the worst happens.
D.

While I don't want mass graves necessary, I would rather they were planned, efficiently dug and available, if necessary.
Not having contingency plans and risk assessment is a surefire way to **** up every time.

 

[Bill_St]

So do we Listen to and believe WHO and this -

Or do we believe some Government PR conference saying less than 1%
or does anyone really believe we should just wait 6 months to see who was actually reliable, correct and unimpeachable?

 

[zand]

We should believe worst case scenario every time.

 

[Brunneria]

So do we Listen to and believe WHO and this -

View attachment 39611
Or do we believe some Government PR conference saying less than 1%
or does anyone really believe we should just wait 6 months to see who was actually reliable, correct and unimpeachable?

Those figures are way off.
As has been repeatedly mentioned across the world, and especially in countries where there are low testing rates, the confirmed cases are a drop in the ocean compared with the vast number of people who are either asymptomatic, or have mild symptoms.

The only way to know how many cases there are, and what the actual mortality rate is, would be to wait until after the pandemic, test 100% of the population, and compare that with those who are confirmed to have died of COVID-19.

Until then people are just guessing - and most of those guesses (such as the link you provided) are basically scaremongering, because there is simply NO WAY we can compare countries that don't test with those that test comprehensively, and then interpret the findings with any accuracy.

 

[Goonergal]

This tweet thread by Dr Jen Unwin might be helpful to those struggling with confusion/the enormity of everything:

https://twitter.com/jen_unwin/status/1241666658076438528?s=21

 

[lucylocket61]

jjraak, I'm tracking the US and UK numbers daily now, and comparing them. While the deaths in your country are far, far greater than ours, when comparing percent of population who have tested positive between our two countries, we're only trailing a few days behind you now. That said, I know it's going to get a lot worse.

Everything but the essential services is closed down in our city now. The courthouse where I work is now closed to the public. I'll probably only be able to work one more week before our department changes over to a skeleton crew.

Are your pubs still open for business or have they finally shut down? That's true madness. In every community there will always be those who just don't get it...until it's too late. We had the same problem here until the governor of our state finally shut the bars and other non-essential businesses down. We have a university here, so that was a welcomed closure.

Pubs have closed, so the idiots are congregating in the pub gardens, bringing their own drinks.

Likewise they are flocking to beaches and holiday towns and treating the time off work as a holiday.

It's madness round here. Shops are stripped bate, as they didn't bring food with them and seem to have expected holiday places to have kept open.

There have been nasty incidents of people in caravans and motorhomes going door to door demanding food from the locals and the police have had to be called.

 

[lindisfel]

They should do what they did with foot and mouth.
The army stopped it and any stupidity like deliberately spreading it, in its tracks.

We should listen to the maths 1% of the population is bad enough. 1% of 80% of the population is still a terrible toll.

Particularly if it affects just one sector of the population.

We need to believe our leaders are not making it up on the hoof. That they will not obfuscate and make sure all medical staff at the front line have WHO guidelines protective equipment the next day when asked.
I have heard their ******** answers, its not good enough.

The other party was the same, they sent the troops to war without the proper kit to protect themselves.
D.

Pubs have closed, so the idiots are congregating in the pub gardens, bringing their own drinks.

Likewise they are flocking to beaches and holiday towns and treating the time off work as a holiday.

It's madness round here. Shops are stripped bate, as they didn't bring food with them and seem to have expected holiday places to have kept open.

There have been nasty incidents of people in caravans and motorhomes going door to door demanding food from the locals and the police have had to be called.

 

[Winnie53]

I don't wish to be mean but you are contradicting yourself a little bit there? On the one hand you say you're not sure it's possible to overdose on vitamin C but on the other hand you say what happens when you take too much.

By overdose, I simply meant too much. Enough to have undesirable side effects. In fact you're even describing side effects at the ballpark dosage we were talking about

Jim, it wasn't my intention to confuse. Apologies.

"Rumbly tummy" is experienced when the amount of vitamin C taken spaced out throughout the day exceeds what the body needs when well, to meet our daily needs, and/or to possibly prevent or lessen the effects of infection.

When under stress, an example would be flying long distances, or fighting a viral infection, the body's need for and use of vitamin C increases significantly, so dosing is higher and more frequent.

I am well right now, so am taking 2 g a day. 1 g with breakfast. 1/2 g at lunch, then 1/2 g again at dinner. I might take another 1/2 g later if I'm stressed or up late between dinner or bed.

If I become ill with cold or flu symptoms I will begin taking 1 g an hour, or more, with water to maintain hydration, to help my body fight the infection. At the rate of 1 g an hour and throughout the night each time I wake, that likely would be 20 g a day.

The amount used to treat the 50 hospitalized COVID-19 positive patients with moderate to severe symptoms in China was 20 g a day administered via IV. One patient, whose condition significantly worsened to the point the doctors thought she would die, was administered 50 g via IV over a period of 4 hours, then recovered. The average hospital stay for those 50 patients was 4 to 5 days less in comparison to patients who did not not receive the vitamin C therapy. All recovered, none died.

During the 20th century high dose vitamin C was used by a doctor to treat polio with excellent results. In a country where tetanus is common it has been used to treat that deadly condition with excellent results.

When these case reports have been presented to groups of medical professionals, they are ignored and denied, the same with the low carb/keto diet for the last 50 years.

The cost of 20 g of vitamin C a day for 9 days for me is $16. Cost of a hospital stay for any amount of time for me is $5000. If I test positive for COVID-19 and have to go to the hospital, I will do it, but I can see no reasonable argument for not using vitamin C. My hope is that by spending the $32 to take it, I will increase my chances of avoiding hospitalization.

I share this information only with the hope that it helps someone other than myself. Unlike you Jim, the reality is that most people will not dig into the literature to learn natural medicine approaches to preventing or treating disease.

All I'm doing here is encouraging you and others here to listen to the videos by Dr. Richard Cheng, MD and Dr. Suzanne Humphries, MD that I've posted here on this thread so you can make an informed decision.

I am doing what I discuss here in addition to following all government recommendations, eating a healthy whole food low carb keto diet, and taking the nutritional supplements I've been taking all along but with the addition of more vitamin C - (I normally only take 120 mg of vitamin C made from berries from throughout the world). My plan is to continue taking 2 g vitamin C a day until May 2021. Preparing for the worst, hoping for the best.

 

[Winnie53]

Pubs have closed, so the idiots are congregating in the pub gardens, bringing their own drinks.

Likewise they are flocking to beaches and holiday towns and treating the time off work as a holiday.

It's madness round here. Shops are stripped bate, as they didn't bring food with them and seem to have expected holiday places to have kept open.

There have been nasty incidents of people in caravans and motorhomes going door to door demanding food from the locals and the police have had to be called.

Not good.

When I took my friend shopping Thursday night, something I've done for years, we witnessed three girls in a car sharing fast food and goofing off. All I could think was why did their parents allow them to go out? It is upsetting. And what you describe is upsetting. Thankfully you and many others here are doing the right thing. And doing so is and will continue to make a difference.