COVID 2019 Comorbidity with Diabetes

urbanracer · Apr 7, 2020

Winnie53 said:
Okay, here's a quote for you...

"...not a single COVID-19 patient of his that has been on the hydroxychloroquine and azithromycin regimen for five days or more has had to be intubated."

The reporters are referring to an interview last week with Stephen Smith, M.D., founder of The Smith Center for Infectious Diseases and Urban Health... https://www.smithcenternj.org/ And here is his training and accomplishments... https://www.smithcenternj.org/about-our-doctors/

Here's the article - (the video of the interview with Dr. Smith is embedded at the top of the article)... https://www.foxnews.com/media/dr-st...symptoms-beginning-of-the-end-of-the-pandemic

He doesn't give the entire protocol they're using. He only discusses the two drugs.

72 COVID-19 patients
21 were pre-diabetic (29.2%)
34 were diabetic (47.2%)
Average BMI of severely ill patients: 30.7. Of those, 25 overweight, 30 obese.
In Seattle, 58% of COVID-19 patients in ICU were diabetic with an average BMI of 33.

Of the patients they treated for rapid, severe COVID-19 in the first two days, 19-20 were intubated, 18 were diabetic, 2 pre-diabetic. They have had no severely ill patients under age 70 who didn't have a high BMI or pre-diabetes or diabetes.

On day 3, they began using the two drugs on all patients, monitoring the heart with baseline and follow-up EKG's. No person who has received 5 days or more of the two medications have been intubated.

Interestingly, I haven't found any interviews with Dr. Smith following the April 3rd interview. My hunch is that governments around the world will try to preserve supplies of these two drugs for the medical professionals and first responders who are at risk while treating COVID-19 patients. Eventually, the supply chain will catch up, but for now, I think we're on our own.

Meanwhile, unproven claims that this drug can help fight Covid-19 are reportedly leading to shortages for people with arthritis. And self medicating people are poisoning themselves.

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanrhe/article/PIIS2665-9913(20)30089-8/fulltext

And other reports cast doubt over claims about Chloroquine and the referenced (misleading) French study.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.th.../06/hydroxychloroquine-trump-coronavirus-drug

Cobia · Apr 8, 2020

urbanracer said:
Meanwhile, unproven claims that this drug can help fight Covid-19 are leading to shortages for people with arthritis and self medicating people are poisoning themselves.

And other reports cast doubt over claims about Chloroquine and the referenced (misleading) French study.

I presume this is about the rumored 2 drugs that might be able to be used. I thought one was for malaria the other was for HIV.
There wouldbe a few drugs that kill covid19 in a petri dish.... question is can the host take as much as a petri dish.

I was thinking about adding a third drug to your list thats being look at in my country...
I dont think i should with the arguments that seem to be developing because of the lockup.

But there is a third drug that seems to have merrit.

urbanracer · Apr 8, 2020

Cobia said:
I presume this is about the rumored 2 drugs that might be able to be used. I thought one was for malaria the other was for HIV.
There wouldbe a few drugs that kill covid19 in a petri dish.... question is can the host take as much as a petri dish.

I was thinking about adding a third drug to your list thats being look at in my country...
I dont think i should with the arguments that seem to be developing because of the lockup.

But there is a third drug that seems to have merrit.

Hi Cobia,

I think it would be amazing if a drug that we already have is proven to be effective against Covid-19. At the moment though, I am not seeing anything that even resembles a peer reviewed piece of evidence from a reputable body.

I have read some statements along the lines of 'taking Chloroquine cannot do you any harm', but it would seem that it may have dangerous side effects if the dose is not carefully controlled. I believe it is right to point this out to anyone considering self medicating.

If you want to discuss another drug then please do, but on an open forum you may expect to be challenged by people with a different view.

copilost · Apr 8, 2020

urbanracer said:
I am not seeing anything that even resembles a peer reviewed piece of evidence from a reputable body.

There's a new study just started run out of Oxford - https://www.phctrials.ox.ac.uk/principle-trial
This is using robust methods to test firstly Chloroquine and then subsequently, using the same trial structure, any further promising drugs. It's using an adaptive design which will allow it to respond to early indications of effectiveness.

All over the world research organisations are collaborating to carry out studies quickly but also robustly. Funders are fast tracking applications and releasing people from existing research commitments to work on COVID-19 studies, database companies are supplying free systems and support, researchers are working from home and answering calls from colleagues for assistance and expertise, doctors, nurses and all NHS staff are collecting data and recruiting participants, institutions are fast tracking their approval and oversight processes, patient representative groups are reviewing study design and study information, specialists are volunteering to run and join steering committees and safety review committees.

This is why it's better not to catch COVID-19 now because proper reliable research will eventually produce useful answers. Catch the bug after that research is done!

Cobia · Apr 8, 2020

urbanracer said:
Hi Cobia,

I think it would be amazing if a drug that we already have is proven to be effective against Covid-19. At the moment though, I am not seeing anything that even resembles a peer reviewed piece of evidence from a reputable body.

I have read some statements along the lines of 'taking Chloroquine cannot do you any harm', but it would seem that it may have dangerous side effects if the dose is not carefully controlled. I believe it is right to point this out to anyone considering self medicating.

If you want to discuss another drug then please do, but on an open forum you may expect to be challenged by people with a different view.

Are you thinking along the same lines as me?
To my knoledge no drug has been effective in a common virus like the common flu(another coroner virus).

With the claims of any drug that is (it cant hurt you) id worrie. Even insulin has its own side effect. In the wrong hands it is night night.

My opinion of any magical drug in this case would need correct timing or its wasted.

Maybe a pm might be a better way ive only seen a bit of media on it not a study. The place looking into it is as far as i know is reputable. My opinion its a while off .

Cheers.

Goonergal · Apr 8, 2020

Winnie53 said:
Until I had those personal experiences, I was no different from any of you. I rejected anything that wasn't supported by my doctors.

I don’t think you will find many members here that blindly follow medical advice. Indeed many have followed their own paths/negotiated and adapted conventional treatment approaches for diabetes.

However, in the context of an emergency such as COVID-19, the UK system (and I would venture many others too) simply is not geared up for patients or their relatives to suggest alternative protocols to medical teams under immense strain. Family members will likely not even know the identity of the teams involved.

Brunneria · Apr 8, 2020

Goonergal said:
I don’t think you will find many members here that blindly follow medical advice. Indeed many have followed their own paths/negotiated and adapted conventional treatment approaches for diabetes.

However, in the context of an emergency such as COVID-19, the UK system (and I would venture many others too) simply is not geared up for patients or their relatives to suggest alternative protocols to medical teams under immense strain. Family members will likely not even know the identity of the teams involved.

Yes.
A quick glance at the pop up hospitals, some with up to 1000 beds to a ward, will quickly communicate how the health service is under too much strain to have in-depth discussions about individual treatment protocols, let alone allow negotiation and selection of an experimental drug regime from a non-medically qualified person.

DCUKMod · Apr 8, 2020

I was talking to someone today who had just had a relative taken to hospital. This wasn't a COVID issue. It was for another health condition.

The reality of the current situation is that when some is admitted to hospital, and are taken by ambulance, that is a journey they do alone. Their relatives or carers are not allowed to travel with them, and nor are they allowed or welcome at the hospital, to minimise the potential number of infected people milling around.

The absolute heartbreak, thankfully, to me heard anecdotally, is of relatives driving to the hospital where their loved on has been taken, and parking up in the carpark; just to be closer.

Sitting in a hospital carpark whilst your loved one fights for their life a few metres away must be a nightmare.

In those scenario, I can't see DrBloggs taking time to read and consider a protocol they've never seen before I can see them following it as being even less likely.

Can you imagine the headlines if the patient passed away? "75 year old man/woman taken to hospital with COVID-19, where doctors did not follow NHS guidelines"

lindisfel · Apr 8, 2020

I think you may mean the common cold not the common flu.
Colds are coronavirus's but flu is not, from what I have read.
D.

Cobia said:
Are you thinking along the same lines as me?
To my knoledge no drug has been effective in a common virus like the common flu(another coroner virus).

With the claims of any drug that is (it cant hurt you) id worrie. Even insulin has its own side effect. In the wrong hands it is night night.

My opinion of any magical drug in this case would need correct timing or its wasted.

Maybe a pm might be a better way ive only seen a bit of media on it not a study. The place looking into it is as far as i know is reputable. My opinion its a while off .

Cheers.

Cobia · Apr 9, 2020

lindisfel said:
I think you may mean the common cold not the common flu.
Colds are coronavirus's but flu is not, from what I have read.
D.

Ok fine its more related to a cold. It mutates more than the flue.
As far as i know no vaccine has been effective against the cold...

Back to work for me.

Cheers.

Deleted member 308541 · Apr 9, 2020

Coronavirus Aus Gov msg:

Stay home this Easter & help save lives.

Only leave for what you really need + exercise, work, medical & care.

Aus.gov.au

Yesterdays text message from the federal government, regarding what to do at easter time.

Easy to understand...

HSSS · Apr 9, 2020

Saw this today

Partha Kar says: "Stay.At.Home... Yes- YOU too"

@parthaskar

Data from Lombardy, Italy re ICU admissions More granularity re #Diabetes starting to appear

17% #T2D Linked with increasing age No record of #T1D 1 case of #T2D < age of 40 Stay safe. Keep in mind sick day rules Don’t panic Stay at home

zand · Apr 9, 2020

Now the abysmal testing levels are really slowing down health and economic recovery. I got an email from Medichecks asking if anyone had a confirmed case of COVID19 could they test the antibody test that Medichecks was developing. I would have loved to do that...but there was no way I could get tested to prove I had the virus when I had it. So that's 3 of us here who could have helped if only...
So frustrating.

copilost · Apr 9, 2020

HSSS said:
17% #T2D Linked with increasing age

Worth noting that these 17% may also have hypertension (these are not exclusive numbers), it's possible the risk is associated with that (or something else) and not T2D.
Really interesting, thanks HSSS.

jjraak · Apr 9, 2020

interesting post @HSSS
thank you for posting.

sure we'll all pull something of that chart.

cases aged
51-60/ 61-70
427 / 598

such a high level of intubation
315 /449

and NO co-morbidity
higher then diabetes,
107/107
v
40/86

Struma · Apr 9, 2020

copilost said:
Worth noting that these 17% may also have hypertension (these are not exclusive numbers), it's possible the risk is associated with that (or something else) and not T2D.
Really interesting, thanks HSSS.

Or, it's the treatment of the hypertension that could be the issue.

urbanracer · Apr 9, 2020

What's being indicated with respect to high BMI is interesting.

http://www.pulsetoday.co.uk/clinica...-care-points-to-risk-factors/20040459.article

Wary that high BMI might be either a precursor or result of other conditions.

HSSS · Apr 9, 2020

The comments with the graph were not mine but the original tweet of Partha karr a specialist in Portsmouth for diabetes.

I too suspect that many of those with diabetes also had other complications listed as comorbidities. There is nothing to show how many had diabetes alone let alone how well controlled it was.

HSSS · Apr 9, 2020

jjraak said:
such a high level of intubation

To some extent expected as they are icu admissions and there because they are the worst suffering cases.

lucylocket61 · Apr 9, 2020

urbanracer said:
What's being indicated with respect to high BMI is interesting.

http://www.pulsetoday.co.uk/clinica...-care-points-to-risk-factors/20040459.article

Wary that high BMI might be either a precursor or result of other conditions.

just a thought. A higher BMI might help as lack of energy to fight this disease is cited somewhere as part of the problem, and not being able to get enough energy into people on ventilators. Cant find where I read this, but it sounds sensible to me.

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