Covid and Work, Covid Advice and General Chat

[Fairygodmother]

A lot of older people work, I myself have a part-time job to supplement my meagre pension, and I’m lucky that I can do a lot of it through online contacts; my younger daughter’s stepped up to do the ‘in person’ stuff I can’t travel for. However, for all older and very vulnerable people to be able to sit this virus out there’d need to be realistic financial and practical support, and people able to do the jobs undone. The range of work undertaken by the vulnerable is vast.

 

[KK123]

"positive test results" not cases.

More people are not being admitted to hospital or dying

I do wonder though about any long lasting effects. I guess we won't know the answer to that for a while.

 

[bulkbiker]

I do wonder though about any long lasting effects. I guess we won't know the answer to that for a while.

So far as I am aware most of the "positive test result" subjects had no idea they were ill (probably because they weren't).

Yes there are many stories circulating about long term problems but I so far haven't seen anything with any numbers.
This implies to me that that numbers are quite small so don't really fit the doom mongering narrative that we are constantly being exposed to.
It could also be that people admitted to hospital with COVID are being exposed to a barrage of tests that are uncovering all sorts of other problems that they were simply unaware of before the tests. Just a thought.

 

[KK123]

Here is my prediction:
September - low cases, hospitalisations and deaths.
October on wards - more testing due to 'symptoms' (in common with colds, flu) prompt more tests, more disruption to schools and local economies due to more tests being done and the resulting case demic not leading to actual illness (hospitalisations and deaths in vulnerable communities but hopefully less so since we have better prevention techniques and treatments).
Badly tested vaccine (government is creating legislation absolving Astra Zeneca from liability and skipping the normal licensing procedure) - if it is like the flu vaccine its efficacy is very hit and miss particularly if you have a weakened immune system.
Also please don't forget that now the corona virus can travel up your sewage pipes (demonstrated by some scientists in China) to get you at your most vulnerable so we should all be really wetting ourselves if we live in a flat.
More daft science arises from the hyper focus on a virus.
How about those of us that are scared stay in a bubble and then let everyone else get on with their lives ?

What about those in the NHS who HAVE to look after anyone with it? Can they stay in a bubble do you think? What about those workers coming into contact with those who may have it, can they stay in a bubble? It's not just about a vulnerable (in your view 'scared') person staying in isolation, it's about all those who HAVE to work, nothing to do with being scared, it's about at least trying to minimise any risk.

 

[KK123]

So far as I am aware most of the "positive test result" subjects had no idea they were ill (probably because they weren't).

Yes there are many stories circulating about long term problems but I so far haven't seen anything with any numbers.
This implies to me that that numbers are quite small so don't really fit the doom mongering narrative that we are constantly being exposed to.
It could also be that people admitted to hospital with COVID are being exposed to a barrage of tests that are uncovering all sorts of other problems that they were simply unaware of before the tests. Just a thought.

A fair few NHS workers died from it though, they seemed to be in their 50s mostly but I'm sure they would have lived a lot longer having not contracted it, even if they did have 'other problems'.

 

[bulkbiker]

A fair few NHS workers died from it though, they seemed to be in their 50s mostly but I'm sure they would have lived a lot longer having not contracted it, even if they did have 'other problems'.

I did read a report that in fact deaths amongst NHS staff were below average for the past 6 months.. no doubt I won't be able to find it now. As one of the UK"s largest (if not the largest employer) and obviously with repeated exposure to sick people that would be a bit surprising.

If they were higher then maybe shows how ineffective PPE can be?
Also having spent a while in and round hospitals last year a very large number of the frontline staff looked very metabolically unhealthy. As we know this is a huge risk factor.

 

[bulkbiker]

Like a guilty secret this thread seem to draw me back in time after time.
I will attempt to ignore it in future. Not sure it does my blood pressure any good tata!

 

[Tannith]

So far as I am aware most of the "positive test result" subjects had no idea they were ill (probably because they weren't).

Yes there are many stories circulating about long term problems but I so far haven't seen anything with any numbers.
This implies to me that that numbers are quite small so don't really fit the doom mongering narrative that we are constantly being exposed to.
It could also be that people admitted to hospital with COVID are being exposed to a barrage of tests that are uncovering all sorts of other problems that they were simply unaware of before the tests. Just a thought.

"So far as I am aware most of the "positive test result" subjects had no idea they were ill (probably because they weren't)."
Is this just wild reckless speculation or do you have some private information about this study that the rest of the world doesn't have access to?

 

[JRT]

I've been pondering how things have changed over the past few months. Back then I think there was concern but a hope that the "right thing " would be done to support those who were vulnerable to the virus.
Now it all seems chaotic with an inept government who are either incapable or disinclined to address the issue.
Society seems to be polarising into those who would not be badly affected by the virus and view it more as an inconvenience and those that are vulnerable feeling concerned. The former seem to increasingly disparage the latter.
Deaths are down but infections up. Who knows what will happen? Figures are normally in retrospect. You could even argue that vast numbers of the vulnerable died. The remainder are maybe more cautious. Care homes are more knowledgeable and I suspect at the moment PPE is more availability. No doubt summer and meetings outdoors have helped.
I think it takes a perfect storm of risk if you are vulnerable to this virus. Age,gender,race,comorbidities, environment, use of public transport etc. There are lots of obese under 40s but on their side is probably a more effective immune system so they dont end up in hospital anyway.
Autumn will be interesting where there is potential for those that are vulnerable to be caught up in the perfect storm. If infections do rise I am sure there will be more deaths of vulnerable key workers. Now the clapping has stopped they are not even on people's radar. Very few people are interested. The groups that represent seem powerless, lots of hot air but nothing changes, and I don't think it will for a long time.
Interestingly I'm also on Gransnet where ages vary from 50s to 80plus. There is concern about grandchilderen/ work/ voluntary work etc. Some of those have genuine reasons for concern. Apart from a few lone voices the overwhelming feeling is to go for it,live your life,dont be held back by a virus. It sometimes feels like watching lemmings!
As I write this on tv is a mother who is continuing to home school her sons rather than send them back to school. The attitude of interviewers is pretty much arent you making an unnecessary fuss? Interestingly the mother concerned had researched well and even a headmaster admitted she was doing a good job.
There are no answers just repetitive debate.

 

[Hopeful34]

In my area, some residents in care homes still haven't been allowed any visitors. One that is allowing visitors, are restricting it to being the same person per resident each time for 15 minutes, once a week, outside in a gazebo whatever the weather. When the visitor leaves the residents are left in tears, inconsolable and not wanting to eat. Residents that used to go out for a walk or drive with their family are losing their ability to walk. Hospital numbers and infection rates in care homes may be down, but at what price?

 

[lucylocket61]

In my area, some residents in care homes still haven't been allowed any visitors. One that is allowing visitors, are restricting it to being the same person per resident each time for 15 minutes, once a week, outside in a gazebo whatever the weather. When the visitor leaves the residents are left in tears, inconsolable and not wanting to eat. Residents that used to go out for a walk or drive with their family are losing their ability to walk. Hospital numbers and infection rates in care homes may be down, but at what price?

I sympathize, but each resident has a duty of care to the other residents as well. Unless those who prefer visitors to safety can be segregated totally, then I cant see how risking the lives of the other residents is a good idea.

Its the same in families/groups with vulnerable members at home. We have to take into account the wishes and safety of the others in the house.

 

[lucylocket61]

I've been pondering how things have changed over the past few months. Back then I think there was concern but a hope that the "right thing " would be done to support those who were vulnerable to the virus.
Now it all seems chaotic with an inept government who are either incapable or disinclined to address the issue.
Society seems to be polarising into those who would not be badly affected by the virus and view it more as an inconvenience and those that are vulnerable feeling concerned. The former seem to increasingly disparage the latter.
Deaths are down but infections up. Who knows what will happen? Figures are normally in retrospect. You could even argue that vast numbers of the vulnerable died. The remainder are maybe more cautious. Care homes are more knowledgeable and I suspect at the moment PPE is more availability. No doubt summer and meetings outdoors have helped.
I think it takes a perfect storm of risk if you are vulnerable to this virus. Age,gender,race,comorbidities, environment, use of public transport etc. There are lots of obese under 40s but on their side is probably a more effective immune system so they dont end up in hospital anyway.
Autumn will be interesting where there is potential for those that are vulnerable to be caught up in the perfect storm. If infections do rise I am sure there will be more deaths of vulnerable key workers. Now the clapping has stopped they are not even on people's radar. Very few people are interested. The groups that represent seem powerless, lots of hot air but nothing changes, and I don't think it will for a long time.
Interestingly I'm also on Gransnet where ages vary from 50s to 80plus. There is concern about grandchilderen/ work/ voluntary work etc. Some of those have genuine reasons for concern. Apart from a few lone voices the overwhelming feeling is to go for it,live your life,dont be held back by a virus. It sometimes feels like watching lemmings!
As I write this on tv is a mother who is continuing to home school her sons rather than send them back to school. The attitude of interviewers is pretty much arent you making an unnecessary fuss? Interestingly the mother concerned had researched well and even a headmaster admitted she was doing a good job.
There are no answers just repetitive debate.

also, the death figures are only for those who die within 28 days of testing positive. We know that a number of deaths occur after 28 days.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-53722711

 

[Hopeful34]

I sympathize, but each resident has a duty of care to the other residents as well. Unless those who prefer visitors to safety can be segregated totally, then I cant see how risking the lives of the other residents is a good idea.

Its the same in families/groups with vulnerable members at home. We have to take into account the wishes and safety of the others in the house.

I agree, but in some of the homes residents have been confined to their bedrooms since early March, the only interaction being with staff who have been to the pub, abroad, restaurants, agency staff who move around care homes, hospitals etc. Staff are obviously entitled to go where they want in their off duty times, but it doesn't add up that residents then can't see more of their family, especially when they have French doors in their bedrooms that family could enter/leave by, and the families I know haven't been to any of these places as they wanted to stay as safe as they could in order to visit the care homes. Sorry rant over, it just doesn't seem fair to me.

 

[lovinglife]

I agree, but in some of the homes residents have been confined to their bedrooms since early March, the only interaction being with staff who have been to the pub, abroad, restaurants, agency staff who move around care homes, hospitals etc. Staff are obviously entitled to go where they want in their off duty times, but it doesn't add up that residents then can't see more of their family, especially when they have French doors in their bedrooms that family could enter/leave by, and the families I know haven't been to any of these places as they wanted to stay as safe as they could in order to visit the care homes. Sorry rant over, it just doesn't seem fair to me.

Not all care homes and care workers have been allowed freedom to do as they please

https://www.carehomeprofessional.co...sacked-for-breaching-social-distancing-rules/

 

[lucylocket61]

especially when they have French doors in their bedrooms that family could enter/leave by, and th

That would come under my post saying "unless they can segregate" and is unfair to the residents who clearly could have visitors without risking others. The home is not behaving kindly, in my opinion.

 

[Hopeful34]

Not all care homes and care workers have been allowed freedom to do as they please

https://www.carehomeprofessional.co...sacked-for-breaching-social-distancing-rules/

No I'm aware of that, I was only referring to some of the ones I have more detailed knowledge of in my local area.
Further afield, I've read about instances of staff moving into the care home/camper vans in the car park, and not seeing their own family for weeks at the start of the pandemic.

 

[Max68]

It's difficult with care homes. Mum's has visiting slots that book up very quickly so I booked two yesterday as otherwise you have at least two weeks wait,. If the weather is nice you sit outside. If not social distancing and masks if there is more than one family in the conservatory. It's rare though as most visits are just one family at a time. Hardest thing is that mum wants a hug before we leave and it's difficult to explain to someone with dementia that you can't. We were also told yesterday when I asked how she was that she is very tearful because the family aren't visiting. Again difficult to explain that appointments are limited due to circumstances so we can't go as regularly as we would have before. Must be awful for her and we feel pretty miserable to, but it is what it is and they are doing it for a reason. Rather that in many ways than turn up and all and sundry are in the living room!

Back from Team Teach and it wasn't a problem not to take part in the practical,.. I sat outside the door in the fresh air for the duration which got a bit chilly to say the least! My decision but no-one grumbled. Glad I could because two masks that neighbours gave me fell apart. The string around the ears came away from the fabric! Great start!!

The real danger on top of the obvious is complacency on my part. When you think about it when you aren't there all you can think about is the virus. When you spend some time there all you can see is your colleagues looking very well and we generally aren't scared of other human beings (most of the time!) So you see them merely as people not as a vessel that may or may not be carrying a virus that "could" kill you! I'm going to have to remind myself to keep my distance and be as careful as I can be without auto pilot slipping back into "normality".

 

[JRT]

It's difficult with care homes. Mum's has visiting slots that book up very quickly so I booked two yesterday as otherwise you have at least two weeks wait,. If the weather is nice you sit outside. If not social distancing and masks if there is more than one family in the conservatory. It's rare though as most visits are just one family at a time. Hardest thing is that mum wants a hug before we leave and it's difficult to explain to someone with dementia that you can't. We were also told yesterday when I asked how she was that she is very tearful because the family aren't visiting. Again difficult to explain that appointments are limited due to circumstances so we can't go as regularly as we would have before. Must be awful for her and we feel pretty miserable to, but it is what it is and they are doing it for a reason. Rather that in many ways than turn up and all and sundry are in the living room!

Back from Team Teach and it wasn't a problem not to take part in the practical,.. I sat outside the door in the fresh air for the duration which got a bit chilly to say the least! My decision but no-one grumbled. Glad I could because two masks that neighbours gave me fell apart. The string around the ears came away from the fabric! Great start!!

The real danger on top of the obvious is complacency on my part. When you think about it when you aren't there all you can think about is the virus. When you spend some time there all you can see is your colleagues looking very well and we generally aren't scared of other human beings (most of the time!) So you see them merely as people not as a vessel that may or may not be carrying a virus that "could" kill you! I'm going to have to remind myself to keep my distance and be as careful as I can be without auto pilot slipping back into "normality".

Glad school went well. Care homes are such a complex issue. Residents who could do so could isolate but there could be issues as staff interact with all residents. Some care homes and staff are beyond reproach. Many still use agency staff. Some are being tested regularly, some care homes still dont have access to any testing.
It does seem incredibly cruel that residents are so isolated,heartbreaking for all concerned. The only real solution appears to be a vaccine or a test that gave immediate results.

 

[ert]

also, the death figures are only for those who die within 28 days of testing positive. We know that a number of deaths occur after 28 days.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-53722711

This is helpful:
https://www.cebm.net/covid-19/public-health-england-death-data-revised/
I'm following the excess deaths, which is a better indicator.

 

[Daphne917]

also, the death figures are only for those who die within 28 days of testing positive. We know that a number of deaths occur after 28 days.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-53722711

As far as I am aware the figures include ALL deaths within 28 days of testing positive regardless of the cause of death therefore the figs are somewhat ‘skewed’.