Covid and Work, Covid Advice and General Chat

[lucylocket61]

As far as I am aware the figures include ALL deaths within 28 days of testing positive regardless of the cause of death therefore the figs are somewhat ‘skewed’.

That depends on what they died from. Covid-19 is producing a wide range of complications.

 

[Max68]

That depends on what they died from. Covid-19 is producing a wide range of complications.

Stumbled across this earlier. Quite concerning and as you say it seems to be allegedly producing a wide range of complications.

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/poli...h-covid-19-had-heart-inflammation/ar-BB18GmbF

Also heard that Dwayne Johnson, aKA The Rock, and his family contracted Covid and apparently it took him three weeks to recover. Not sure how ill he was but if The Rock is struck down that's not great news for us mere mortals!!

 

[Tannith]

It's difficult with care homes. Mum's has visiting slots that book up very quickly so I booked two yesterday as otherwise you have at least two weeks wait,. If the weather is nice you sit outside. If not social distancing and masks if there is more than one family in the conservatory. It's rare though as most visits are just one family at a time. Hardest thing is that mum wants a hug before we leave and it's difficult to explain to someone with dementia that you can't. We were also told yesterday when I asked how she was that she is very tearful because the family aren't visiting. Again difficult to explain that appointments are limited due to circumstances so we can't go as regularly as we would have before. Must be awful for her and we feel pretty miserable to, but it is what it is and they are doing it for a reason. Rather that in many ways than turn up and all and sundry are in the living room!

Back from Team Teach and it wasn't a problem not to take part in the practical,.. I sat outside the door in the fresh air for the duration which got a bit chilly to say the least! My decision but no-one grumbled. Glad I could because two masks that neighbours gave me fell apart. The string around the ears came away from the fabric! Great start!!

The real danger on top of the obvious is complacency on my part. When you think about it when you aren't there all you can think about is the virus. When you spend some time there all you can see is your colleagues looking very well and we generally aren't scared of other human beings (most of the time!) So you see them merely as people not as a vessel that may or may not be carrying a virus that "could" kill you! I'm going to have to remind myself to keep my distance and be as careful as I can be without auto pilot slipping back into "normality".

"When you spend some time there all you can see is your colleagues looking very well and we generally aren't scared of other human beings (most of the time!) So you see them merely as people not as a vessel that may or may not be carrying a virus that "could" kill you! I'm going to have to remind myself to keep my distance and be as careful as I can be without auto pilot slipping back into "normality"." I felt like this when my son visited the other day. He started off talking to me from the pavement as I stood in the doorway. but people came along the pavement and he moved just into the garden. Then traffic noise made it difficult for us to hear each other and he moved closer. I realised then that we were just 1 m apart. It had been hard to realise that someone I love could be carrying a lethal virus, as he just didn't seem like any kind of threat, despite the fact that he was returning from work and had just got off a train.

 

[Tannith]

It is just that you seem keen to prove your idea that children are vectors of infection for this thing when the experience of Europe and latterly Scotland just hasn't shown this. Kids do transmit the flu very easily and the common cold but their innate immune systems seem to repel this one so those cases do not represent hospitalisations much less deaths nor do they link to community outbreaks but please share if you've found any such situations?

“I was surprised by the high levels of virus we found in children of all ages, especially in the first two days of infection,” Dr. Lael Yonker, a pediatric pulmonologist and lead author of the study, said in a statement.

“I was not expecting the viral load to be so high,” she continued. “You think of a hospital, and of all of the precautions taken to treat severely ill adults, but the viral loads of these hospitalized patients are significantly lower than a ‘healthy child’ who is walking around with a high SARS-CoV-2 viral load.”

The higher the viral load, the greater the transmissibility or risk of infection.

“Kids are not immune from this infection, and their symptoms don’t correlate with exposure and infection,” added Dr. Alessio Fasano, a pediatric gastroenterologist and author. “During this COVID-19 pandemic, we have mainly screened symptomatic subjects, so we have reached the erroneous conclusion that the vast majority of people infected are adults. However, our results show that kids are not protected against this virus.”

It’s widely thought that kids are less likely to get the virus or become seriously ill from it because they have fewer immune receptors for SARS-CoV-2. But the data showed kids can carry a higher level of the virus — and be more contagious — regardless of their receptor levels.
https://www.healthline.com/health-news/children-may-be-silent-carriers-of-covid-19?slot_pos=article_2&utm_source=Sailthru%20Email&utm_medium=Email&utm_campaign=daily&utm_content=2020-09-03&apid=25088831#Kids-carry-more-virus,-are-contagious

 

[NicoleC1971]

“I was surprised by the high levels of virus we found in children of all ages, especially in the first two days of infection,” Dr. Lael Yonker, a pediatric pulmonologist and lead author of the study, said in a statement.

“I was not expecting the viral load to be so high,” she continued. “You think of a hospital, and of all of the precautions taken to treat severely ill adults, but the viral loads of these hospitalized patients are significantly lower than a ‘healthy child’ who is walking around with a high SARS-CoV-2 viral load.”

The higher the viral load, the greater the transmissibility or risk of infection.

“Kids are not immune from this infection, and their symptoms don’t correlate with exposure and infection,” added Dr. Alessio Fasano, a pediatric gastroenterologist and author. “During this COVID-19 pandemic, we have mainly screened symptomatic subjects, so we have reached the erroneous conclusion that the vast majority of people infected are adults. However, our results show that kids are not protected against this virus.”

It’s widely thought that kids are less likely to get the virus or become seriously ill from it because they have fewer immune receptors for SARS-CoV-2. But the data showed kids can carry a higher level of the virus — and be more contagious — regardless of their receptor levels.
https://www.healthline.com/health-news/children-may-be-silent-carriers-of-covid-19?slot_pos=article_2&utm_source=Sailthru%20Email&utm_medium=Email&utm_campaign=daily&utm_content=2020-09-03&apid=25088831#Kids-carry-more-virus,-are-contagious

I wonder how she , as a gastroenterologist, explains the lack of outbreaks in the schools that opened up or remained open in Europe and latterly Scotland? Her hypothesis does not seem to be proven so that requires some explanation. Particularly if on the back of it, panicking heads are sending kids home and locking schools down as they surely will during the upcoming colds and flu season?

 

[HSSS]

I wonder how she , as a gastroenterologist, explains the lack of outbreaks in the schools that opened up or remained open in Europe and latterly Scotland? Her hypothesis does not seem to be proven so that requires some explanation. Particularly if on the back of it, panicking heads are sending kids home and locking schools down as they surely will during the upcoming colds and flu season?

My first thought would be many of those in Europe enforced face coverings and distancing. Scotland only opened a couple of weeks ago widely. Cases are rising there as they have in the USA since reopening in person became common in some areas.

And if these kids are asymptomatic then they won’t be showing up as positive cases unless screened for other reasons.
https://www.eurosurveillance.org/content/10.2807/1560-7917.ES.2020.25.29.2001352#html_fulltext Showed 43% of the Israeli school outbreak were asymptomatic

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamapediatrics/fullarticle/2770150 Shows some enlightenment about symptoms in kids too

Findings In this case series of 91 children with COVID-19 in Korea, 22.0% were asymptomatic. Only 8.5% of symptomatic cases were diagnosed at the time of symptom onset, while 66.2% had unrecognized symptoms before diagnosis and 25.4% developed symptoms after diagnosis; SARS-CoV-2 RNA was detected for a mean of 17.6 days overall and 14.1 days in asymptomatic cases.​

Meaning Symptom screening fails to identify most COVID-19 cases in children, and SARS-CoV-2 RNA in children is detected for an unexpectedly long time.

 

[Bluetit1802]

At 8-30 this morning my hubby went to Sainsburys. The shop is close to the local high school. He reported to me there were several teenage children in school uniform inside the shop, milling about. Nothing unusual with that - they use this shop to stock up on crisps and snacks before and after school. Not one of them was wearing a mask.

 

[JohnEGreen]

It's funny but the main secondary school here is just down the road away normally before covid 19 I would see throngs of uniformed pupils pass my front window so far this week I have seen neither hide nor hair of any of them probably means the school has delayed their restart I have seen two primary school children pass by but not seeing any where near the usual numbers.

And when I drove my wife to work yesterday it was an easy drive without the normal traffic queues due to parents ferrying children to schools and colleges,

 

[Daphne917]

It's funny but the main secondary school here is just down the road away normally before covid 19 I would see throngs of uniformed pupils pass my front window so far this week I have seen neither hide nor hair of any of them probably means the school has delayed their restart I have seen two primary school children pass by but not seeing any where near the usual numbers.

And when I drove my wife to work yesterday it was an easy drive without the normal traffic queues due to parents ferrying children to schools and colleges,

Some pupils are still off school due to Inset days - the schools near me are open but pupils won’t be going back until next Tuesday due to inset days.

 

[Mr_Pot]

Some pupils are still off school due to Inset days - the schools near me are open but pupils won’t be going back until next Tuesday due to inset days.

Why didn't they have the inset days when the schools were closed anyway?

 

[HSSS]

Why didn't they have the inset days when the schools were closed anyway?

I suspect teachers are trying to catch up with ever changing government advice

Inset days are never counted towards the required teaching days anyway.

 

[mouseee]

Absolutely. INSET days are not counted in teaching days but are counted in our contracted days. Those that dont have them this week will have them later in the year usually tagged onto holidays.

Majority of teachers will have been in school preparing classroom in the holidays. I was in last week. We have 23 pages of risk assessments to read and prepare for and that's before all the government guidance. We cant all meet together but it is more important than ever that we prepare for our classes and teaching. I've been teaching 25 years and I've never started a year like this!! Even though we'll be in the same building we will be having all meetings by zoom for the foreseeable future. Strange times we are living in.

 

[Daphne917]

Why didn't they have the inset days when the schools were closed anyway?

I haven’t a clue as I don’t have children but I check the school calendar to ensure that I avoid having time off during the school holidays.

 

[ert]

Not a good start: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-54030857 Seventeen staff members at Ysgol Bryn Castell in Brynmenyn and five at Maesteg School have been advised to self-isolate for 14 days, and the children weren't even back.

 

[Max68]

Well interesting two days. Went in today and the Team Teach training (Inset Day) was in a different room without a door that would have allowed me to observe. So I went and stood all day at the open window as no chair was tall enough! Funny thing was nobody batted an eyelid! Decided I'm just going to try and keep myself as safe as possible if others aren't. In the class everyone was just sitting next to each other with no masks which is madness IMO. There was a BBQ afterwards which I declined and then a load of them were off to the pub which shows the problems that we face if we want to try and stay safe as younger staff certainly seem so blaze.

I won't be able to do that from next week but when I can I will stand next to an open exterior door, or just outside. If I am questioned I will just reply that I don't feel safe and am doing what I can to lower my risk.. I'm still waiting for my Individual Risk Assessment and after talking to the Union he said that the school has a very generic Risk Policy as I asked him to look at it. He said I was within my rights not to turn up until I receive the I.R.A but it's so difficult to get into an argument with the school. However I will request that I see it and discuss it on Monday morning.

Re the letter I requested from my GP for the school and pension provider outlining my condition I had to chase that up. The GP had left a message with the receptionist saying I would have to pay a minimum of £25 for the letter as it's a private letter. Apparently she has written a draft and set out my Covid Age score, which she worked out at 67 which she says is low risk!! I'm 52 so how can a covid age of 67 be low risk?! Plus she is probably basing it on previous readings. For instance I won't have been weighed for years at the surgery. I might be heavier or lighter than last time around. I am hoping to speak to her late Monday and will make sure she is using the correct readings for the test. I googled Covid Age Calculator and loads come up. Some very basic, and some with questions you wouldn't know about yourself unless you can read detailed blood tests. I completed one and came out as high risk so no idea which one GP's complete. Obviously if I am lower risk that's great but surely a covid age of 67 if I am really 52 isn't good!

The Union really do talk sense but it means that you would have to get very argumentative, stubborn and into a conflict with your employer to go down that road. It's easy for a Union to advise you to write a letter and demand this and that or refuse to go in unless this is done or that is done but in reality it is very difficult especially when you have a pretty good relationship with your employer and don't want to be seen as a pain. At the same time though you want to keep safe. We really seem to have been left to our own devices by Government and the medical fraternity. Apparently the only people employers will listen to if you want to work from home are specialists. But if you aren't currently ill with a condition then you won't be under a specialist anyway!

The problem is we are trying desperately "not" to become seriously ill but no one seems to realise that, or more likely they just don't care.

 

[Tannith]

Well interesting two days. Went in today and the Team Teach training (Inset Day) was in a different room without a door that would have allowed me to observe. So I went and stood all day at the open window as no chair was tall enough! Funny thing was nobody batted an eyelid! Decided I'm just going to try and keep myself as safe as possible if others aren't. In the class everyone was just sitting next to each other with no masks which is madness IMO. There was a BBQ afterwards which I declined and then a load of them were off to the pub which shows the problems that we face if we want to try and stay safe as younger staff certainly seem so blaze.

I won't be able to do that from next week but when I can I will stand next to an open exterior door, or just outside. If I am questioned I will just reply that I don't feel safe and am doing what I can to lower my risk.. I'm still waiting for my Individual Risk Assessment and after talking to the Union he said that the school has a very generic Risk Policy as I asked him to look at it. He said I was within my rights not to turn up until I receive the I.R.A but it's so difficult to get into an argument with the school. However I will request that I see it and discuss it on Monday morning.

Re the letter I requested from my GP for the school and pension provider outlining my condition I had to chase that up. The GP had left a message with the receptionist saying I would have to pay a minimum of £25 for the letter as it's a private letter. Apparently she has written a draft and set out my Covid Age score, which she worked out at 67 which she says is low risk!! I'm 52 so how can a covid age of 67 be low risk?! Plus she is probably basing it on previous readings. For instance I won't have been weighed for years at the surgery. I might be heavier or lighter than last time around. I am hoping to speak to her late Monday and will make sure she is using the correct readings for the test. I googled Covid Age Calculator and loads come up. Some very basic, and some with questions you wouldn't know about yourself unless you can read detailed blood tests. I completed one and came out as high risk so no idea which one GP's complete. Obviously if I am lower risk that's great but surely a covid age of 67 if I am really 52 isn't good!

The Union really do talk sense but it means that you would have to get very argumentative, stubborn and into a conflict with your employer to go down that road. It's easy for a Union to advise you to write a letter and demand this and that or refuse to go in unless this is done or that is done but in reality it is very difficult especially when you have a pretty good relationship with your employer and don't want to be seen as a pain. At the same time though you want to keep safe. We really seem to have been left to our own devices by Government and the medical fraternity. Apparently the only people employers will listen to if you want to work from home are specialists. But if you aren't currently ill with a condition then you won't be under a specialist anyway!

The problem is we are trying desperately "not" to become seriously ill but no one seems to realise that, or more likely they just don't care.

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/need-extra-precautions/older-adults.html

 

[JRT]

Well interesting two days. Went in today and the Team Teach training (Inset Day) was in a different room without a door that would have allowed me to observe. So I went and stood all day at the open window as no chair was tall enough! Funny thing was nobody batted an eyelid! Decided I'm just going to try and keep myself as safe as possible if others aren't. In the class everyone was just sitting next to each other with no masks which is madness IMO. There was a BBQ afterwards which I declined and then a load of them were off to the pub which shows the problems that we face if we want to try and stay safe as younger staff certainly seem so blaze.

I won't be able to do that from next week but when I can I will stand next to an open exterior door, or just outside. If I am questioned I will just reply that I don't feel safe and am doing what I can to lower my risk.. I'm still waiting for my Individual Risk Assessment and after talking to the Union he said that the school has a very generic Risk Policy as I asked him to look at it. He said I was within my rights not to turn up until I receive the I.R.A but it's so difficult to get into an argument with the school. However I will request that I see it and discuss it on Monday morning.

Re the letter I requested from my GP for the school and pension provider outlining my condition I had to chase that up. The GP had left a message with the receptionist saying I would have to pay a minimum of £25 for the letter as it's a private letter. Apparently she has written a draft and set out my Covid Age score, which she worked out at 67 which she says is low risk!! I'm 52 so how can a covid age of 67 be low risk?! Plus she is probably basing it on previous readings. For instance I won't have been weighed for years at the surgery. I might be heavier or lighter than last time around. I am hoping to speak to her late Monday and will make sure she is using the correct readings for the test. I googled Covid Age Calculator and loads come up. Some very basic, and some with questions you wouldn't know about yourself unless you can read detailed blood tests. I completed one and came out as high risk so no idea which one GP's complete. Obviously if I am lower risk that's great but surely a covid age of 67 if I am really 52 isn't good!

The Union really do talk sense but it means that you would have to get very argumentative, stubborn and into a conflict with your employer to go down that road. It's easy for a Union to advise you to write a letter and demand this and that or refuse to go in unless this is done or that is done but in reality it is very difficult especially when you have a pretty good relationship with your employer and don't want to be seen as a pain. At the same time though you want to keep safe. We really seem to have been left to our own devices by Government and the medical fraternity. Apparently the only people employers will listen to if you want to work from home are specialists. But if you aren't currently ill with a condition then you won't be under a specialist anyway!

The problem is we are trying desperately "not" to become seriously ill but no one seems to realise that, or more likely they just don't care.

I think your post sums it up perfectly Max. On the one hand you have Government workers,GPs,and even Union Officials who are working from home or with rigid social distancing, then there are the rest of us.!
GPs, the ones that I have been in contact with seem to go to extraordinary lengths to protect themselves at work but feel also dismissive of someone in another occupation,sometimes it feels to me as they dont want to get involved!
Risk assessments to me seem like statistics they can prove or disprove anything. My work place had a very basic one where it would unlikely that anyone who worked there would have made high risk as they would have been unable to get out of bed! On this I was low risk,on the one the NHS use I was high.
I have almost given up trying to assess what the real risk is. On the one hand theres all the things that have happened since March and all the measures that have been put into place. On the other is what seems to be the general feeling that infections are up and rising but that's ok because its younger people and they will be fine. Deaths are drastically down. I have wondered who these deaths are. I wonder how those that were shielded and returned to work are fairing. In my workplace they disappeared off the rota.
In a society where the majority view the virus as an inconvenience and a quite vocal minority as fake I think anyone who is vulnerable or feels at risk is very much on their own.
Every situation is a unique combination of individual risk factors combined with risk in the workplace. Schools and care homes seem to be places where risk is debated but people just put a few things in place and wait and see. Schools people are mainly concerned about childeren. Care homes currently just isolate their residents to the point they are almost prisoners. Tests are hard to come by for many,a lot are struggling financially. The only hope is that at least hospital patients wont be discharged there again.
Maybe government policy,if they have one,is to follow herd immunity and for as many people to be infected before winter so NHS isnt overwhelmed?
I think anyone who is concerned is on their own and left feeling a nuisance or paranoid for making a fuss. I think that your colleagues didnt social distance during training says it all really.

 

[Daphne917]

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/need-extra-precautions/older-adults.html

Looking at the demographics of the stats surely that is normal anyway - the older you are the more likely you are to succumb to serious illnesses and have less ability to fight them. Ordinary flu would not normally pose a problem to a young person without underlying health problems but may do for someone on their 80s - that’s why flu and pneumonia vaccinations are routine for over 60s and those with health issues. That said there is documented evidence that some people in their 80s, 90s and even 100s have recovered from Covid. I’m not dismissing anybody’s fears re Covid - my OH, who has health issues, and I have not gone out much since March (other than for work, shopping, prescriptions and visiting relatives etc) and had our first meal out yesterday however I do feel that sometimes people are frantically digging around the Web looking for facts and figures thus magnifying a culture of fear.

 

[JRT]

Looking at the demographics of the stats surely that is normal anyway - the older you are the more likely you are to succumb to serious illnesses and have less ability to fight them. Ordinary flu would not normally pose a problem to a young person without underlying health problems but may do for someone on their 80s - that’s why flu and pneumonia vaccinations are routine for over 60s and those with health issues. That said there is documented evidence that some people in their 80s, 90s and even 100s have recovered from Covid. I’m not dismissing anybody’s fears re Covid - my OH, who has health issues, and I have not gone out much since March (other than for work, shopping, prescriptions and visiting relatives etc) and had our first meal out yesterday however I do feel that sometimes people are frantically digging around the Web looking for facts and figures thus magnifying a culture of fear.

A culture of fear indeed. Some feel that the government did rather to well at encouraging people to stay home to the extent they are scared to leave. I dont think that's true at all. In fact apart from when obliged to socially distance/ wear masks I think those that are at minimum risk are living life pretty much pre covid. Those that are more circumspect probably have someone in immediate circle who are high risk.
For those that are concerned due to their vulnerability how exposed they are to the virus is down to finances,education and luck.
I think a Government that lurches from one U turn to another and whose motives are unclear has added to the problem. Tabloid headlines dont help.
Yes,finances ,education and both of these lead to choice. Arguably a good education leads to a better job with better terms and conditions and usually more responsible employers. If high risk you may be more able to work from home or be furloughed. You have control over your risk in your social life. You have choice.
Frontline high risk employees rarely have that choice. No sick pay,zero hours,disinterested employers. If you access work via public transport the risk increases. If you rent there is little protection if you are needed to isolate and have no salary.
I've worked for local government for decades for the past two years I have worked in a private sector care home. This suited me as didnt have a mortgage and lack of sick pay not an issue. The contrast between the two sectors is breathtaking. If I was in my old job I would be totally protected whether working from home or in the work environment.
In my current role it is a completely different story. It would not be safe for me to be there. Fortunately I have the choice not to be.
There is only lip service paid to protection, individual risk assessments etc. As Max is finding it is an ongoing struggle to get the same protection other workers are automatically given. This may partly explain some individuals need to seek out any information available. For many they have been told the risk is real but they are pretty defenceless.

 

[Robinredbreast]

Today I received a phone call and a text from the transport company and I am starting back to school on Monday the 7th.
This run will be slightly different, larger vehicle, same school but with 3 other children, making a total of 5. Lots of Covid 19 info on the do's and don't, Route, Risk assessment and Operator Loading Guidance, so, I'm looking forward to doing something rewarding and being useful again