COVID the real numbers? Not all doom and gloom.

[lucylocket61]

A discussion on schools and the current issue from the Royal Society of Medicine

I have listened to the video. Nothing new. No-one is disputing that the effect of having covid-19 on the younger population is less severe than for the adult population. Its not an issue of disagreement.

However, the balance of their mental health etc needs to be weight properly against the spread of this virus to the wider and more vulnerable population. This keeps getting sidestepped by you and others.

Why is this? why are you not addressing this issue with due seriousness? And what about long tail covid-19 in all this? So much black and white commenting from people, and wishful thinking instead of the reality we have today, this minute.

As far as I can see, the needs of one group do not over-rule the needs of another. What about the mental health of the older or more vulnerable members of the population? Do disabled people, for example, not count? or very old people?

One solution is to provide safe enclaves for the vulnerable to socialise and live and also keep safe through this, in groups. Our government has removed any safety for us, and chosen not to protect us, so we are left with this situation which serves nobody.

We are all being harmed, in some way or another, by government policy and choices. But we are all equally important in our needs too.

Of course, effective testing arrangements and track and trace right now would help a lot.

 

[bulkbiker]

You and I are both diabetic. Well controlled/in remission/ recovered whatever. But diabetic nonetheless. We therefore technically fall into the category of underlying conditions as will others that feel perfectly healthy. That is my point.

We have a fundamental issue that allowed out glucose regulation to become disordered. We manage that with diet (as opposed to medication) but it remains a fact we have/had something that allowed that to happen that doesn’t to others.

Perhaps in time it will transpire that remission alone is good enough to protect us from the vulnerability to covid diabetes seems to represent. Perhaps in time we will know it is deeper routed and no matter what our control level it is that fundamental genetic disposition that is the problem. Who knows at this point.

Technically all sort of things may be true.. however I am metabolically healthier than I have ever been in my life at 58.
I do not fear catching COVID and cannot understand why I would be more at risk than anyone else. I have read widely on the subject and can see no need to be afraid however if I did catch it and die then I'd simply be another statistic.

I could just as easily die in a motorbike crash tomorrow (and in risk terms probably far more likely) so does that make me stop riding my bikes? No of course not. I simply do a risk assessment and act accordingly.

 

[Tannith]

Technically all sort of things may be true.. however I am metabolically healthier than I have ever been in my life at 58.
I do not fear catching COVID and cannot understand why I would be more at risk than anyone else. I have read widely on the subject and can see no need to be afraid however if I did catch it and die then I'd simply be another statistic.

I could just as easily die in a motorbike crash tomorrow (and in risk terms probably far more likely) so does that make me stop riding my bikes? No of course not. I simply do a risk assessment and act accordingly.

Given that you are sufficiently well off to have taken very early retirement, and also have transport I am not surprised that you do not fear catching covid. That is just good luck. You don't have to go out and if you do, you are in a car or on a motorbike. You can do click and collect and don't have to go into supermarkets or to work, so of course you are at very little risk of catching it.There are others forced to go to work, and to shops, often by public transport who have very sound reasons to be afraid of catching it.

 

[bulkbiker]

Given that you are sufficiently well off to have taken very early retirement, and also have transport I am not surprised that you do not fear catching covid. That is just good luck. You don't have to go out and if you do, you are in a car or on a motorbike. You can do click and collect and don't have to go into supermarkets or to work, so of course you are at very little risk of catching it.There are others forced to go to work, and to shops, often by public transport who have very sound reasons to be afraid of catching it.

Also of course I happen to be able to read and analyse the figures that are published.

There is little for me to fear so why spend your life being afraid. We are all going to die it's simply a matter of timing.

I have visited the supermarket every single week and have used click and collect only to avoid going into Tesco on two occasions.

I feel rather sorry for you that you are so scared.. maybe check out the statistics for where you live and see how many people really are infectious before deciding on locking yourself away forever until a poorly tested and rushed vaccine is unleashed upon the world.

I wish you all the best.

 

[Fairygodmother]

Also of course I happen to be able to read and analyse the figures that are published.

There is little for me to fear so why spend your life being afraid. We are all going to die it's simply a matter of timing.

I have visited the supermarket every single week and have used click and collect only to avoid going into Tesco on two occasions.

I feel rather sorry for you that you are so scared.. maybe check out the statistics for where you live and see how many people really are infectious before deciding on locking yourself away forever until a poorly tested and rushed vaccine is unleashed upon the world.

I wish you all the best.

You said you live in a place where there’s not been a high incidence of Covid. Everyone here is wearing different shoes: we have very varied health and geographical situations. There’s not one shoe size fits all, but try walking in someone else’s for a while?

 

[bulkbiker]

You said you live in a place where there’s not been a high incidence of Covid. Everyone here is wearing different shoes: we have very varied health and geographical situations. There’s not one shoe size fits all, but try walking in someone else’s for a while?

We currently have more NHS hospitals in the UK than we have COVID patients so fewer than one patient per hospital.

It really doesn't matter whose shoes I'm wearing.

We are being manipulated for some reason.
Either incompetence or deliberately I'm not sure which but the manipulation is there.

Edit to add the "6 rule" is so obviously to ban/crush any kind of protest against the govt that the veneer is wearing thin.

 

[NicoleC1971]

I have listened to the video. Nothing new. No-one is disputing that the effect of having covid-19 on the younger population is less severe than for the adult population. Its not an issue of disagreement.

However, the balance of their mental health etc needs to be weight properly against the spread of this virus to the wider and more vulnerable population. This keeps getting sidestepped by you and others.

Why is this? why are you not addressing this issue with due seriousness? And what about long tail covid-19 in all this? So much black and white commenting from people, and wishful thinking instead of the reality we have today, this minute.

As far as I can see, the needs of one group do not over-rule the needs of another. What about the mental health of the older or more vulnerable members of the population? Do disabled people, for example, not count? or very old people?

One solution is to provide safe enclaves for the vulnerable to socialise and live and also keep safe through this, in groups. Our government has removed any safety for us, and chosen not to protect us, so we are left with this situation which serves nobody.

We are all being harmed, in some way or another, by government policy and choices. But we are all equally important in our needs too.

Of course, effective testing arrangements and track and trace right now would help a lot.

This all feels so divisive and as we're told of more draconian enforcement of restrictions does anyone feel any 'safer' or just more and more anxious?
It is never Us versus Them but my point has always been that quarantining the young does not necessarily protect the extremely vulnerable as clearly illustrated by the failure of the lock down to do anything but cause excess deaths in Care homes but also in all the other vulnerable people (cancer patients diagnosed and undiagnosed and cardiovascular - those people are also often elderly and diabetic too ).
I feel the need to affirm the rights of those people too as well as the upcoming generation.
There is little discussion of the actual risks hence the sharing of data analysis
versusimagined risk generated the by the endless propaganda from the mainstream media and the government.

 

[bulkbiker]

https://www.diabetes.co.uk/forum/th...nearly-abolishes-icu-risk-in-covid-19.176693/

Amazing news.. get out in the sun whilst it lasts!

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0960076020302764?via=ihub

And look at the treatment protocol in Spain...!

 

[Brunneria]

https://www.diabetes.co.uk/forum/th...nearly-abolishes-icu-risk-in-covid-19.176693/

Amazing news.. get out in the sun whilst it lasts!

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0960076020302764?via=ihub

And look at the treatment protocol in Spain...!

While I agree that it is great that the use of Vit D (in this case calcifediol) is getting some recognition and research, it is very important to note that this is NOT 'the treatment protocol' in Spain. It was a small, pilot study in a university hospital, using just 76 patients, only 50 of whom received the cacifediol, and ALL of whom also received Hydroxychloroquine and Azythromycin.

Hopefully much larger scale studies will follow.

And yes, if I was a doc anywhere in the world, with calcifediol available and on my list of authorised drugs to use on COVID patients, then I would be giving them calcifediol from now on, but that in no way makes it a well researched orthodox protocol.

 

[urbanracer]

An update from Aunty.

 

[Fairygodmother]

Thank you @urbanracer. This is one of the reasons we need to look at individual circumstances, the shoes each of us wear, rather than bald numbers.
For those of us who are older, with underlying conditions, prevention beats a cure. That’s why so many of us who are able to have had a valedictory meeting with our families before schools return (the one in which our older daughter is Head of Science has already had to send a year group home to isolate because of Covid). It’s the reason why we’re stocking up with future needs before the University Students return to our home town. It’s a reason why we won’t be seeing our younger daughter and grandchildren for a while. It’s a reason why our GP next door neighbour had her parents to stay after her family had completed the 14 day holiday-return quarantine. It’s a reason why people aren’t flocking back to the office.
We don’t want hospitals filled again; we don’t want care homes to be corpse houses; we don’t want an overwhelmed NHS.
The numbers may be low, but there’s doom and gloom aplenty in the process of keeping them there.

 

[bulkbiker]

received Hydroxychloroquine and Azythromycin.

That was the treatment protocol I was pointing out.. a bit different to"paracetmol and oxygen" which was so far as I'm aware what was implemented in the UK. Although it seems that information is extremely hard to find.

 

[lucylocket61]

by the failure of the lock down to do anything but cause excess deaths in Care home

You may have forgotten that many of the care homes deaths were due to care homes being forced to take in infected patients, with no affective PPE or ability to quarantine.

also in all the other vulnerable people (cancer patients diagnosed and undiagnosed and cardiovascular - those people are also often elderly and diabetic too ).

That was due to governmental failures to provide health care, not due to the lockdown itself.

 

[NicoleC1971]

You may have forgotten that many of the care homes deaths were due to care homes being forced to take in infected patients, with no affective PPE or ability to quarantine.


That was due to governmental failures to provide health care, not due to the lockdown itself.

I think i'd agree on the former contention and well aware that to 'save the NHS' we seeded Covid into the Care homes. They did this in Sweden and many other places too.
On the second point, if you convert the National Health Service into a National Covid Service and scare everyone away from the normal services to boot, there will be more of those kind of deaths at the time and into the future too. That is what lockdown meant and continues to mean.

 

[Robinredbreast]

There’s not one shoe size fits all, but try walking in someone else’s for a while?

No there isn't FG, but I have found that some people, no matter what shoe shop they go into, or select on online, the style, colour, fit, material or price, will never be to their satisfaction
edited

 

[Robinredbreast]

I am not scared, but aware of what COULD happen. My children, all aged over 18, especially the 19 year old worry about me, but I can't go through life constantly anxious or afraid.
I work two jobs, went back on Monday 7th as a school escort, 1 child is off today because of a bad tummy, 1 child, who I had before has always been a sneezer, sometimes with a runny nose and he suffer from nose bleeds too. I try my utmost to keep safe and to hopefully keep others safe too. My PPE has just arrived by post from the County councils School Escort team, I have a 50 ml tube of hand-gel, 4 pairs of disposable blue gloves and a visor, which looks like the size of Darth Vader's original face cast !! I am still on furlough with my other job, which I can work during school hols and weekends, when work in available in my home town, I don't drive so I walk to take public transport.
I am type 1, 31 years, over 60 with other medical conditions.

 

[zand]

I wasn't scared of catching COVID-19. I wish I had been.

 

[Bluetit1802]

I'm not scared of catching the virus particularly, the odds are quite low, but am a bit concerned about how I might react to it and need hospitalisation if I do catch it. So I am very careful. However, it hasn't stopped me attempting to continue with my life and not shut myself away. We had a week's staycation in July and are setting off again tomorrow on another one. We have had one beer garden lunch and one celebration evening meal inside a restaurant, plus a few tea garden afternoon teas. I haven't been in any small shops in the town centre, but I have been to the supermarket for quick visits twice, plus a trip to a local small Homebase for some paint, and a few garden centre visits. I have also been to the hairdresser twice and an urgent appointment with an audiologist. We also mix with our daughter and family (all adults working at home).

I am 72, retired, diabetes in remission, not overweight, with other minor co-morbidities but am not medicated for any of them. I am very thankful I don't work. Hubby is 74 and also retired and not medicated for anything. I am acutely aware that at our age we don't have a great deal of time left on this earth, so I don't want to waste any of it.

 

[lucylocket61]

I am not scared for myself, I am more concerned about being as careful as i can about hygiene to minimise the risk of passing the virus to others, who might be more vulnerable and die or be severely harmed.

 

[Robinredbreast]

I am not scared for myself, I am more concerned about being as careful as i can about hygiene to minimise the risk of passing the virus to others, who might be more vulnerable and die or be severely harmed.

Awareness, Hygiene and Consideration for others,are the main factors for me