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COVID vaccination

Discussion in 'General Chat' started by notafanofsugar, Nov 14, 2020.

  1. Oldvatr

    Oldvatr Type 2 · Expert

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    Please Fasten Seat Belts. No Smoking. No Naked aggression. It's official. The Pfizer express is taking off to a hospital near you (hopefully). Wonder what the tariff will be after Dec 31? It's coming from Belgium.
     
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  2. Ymdawd

    Ymdawd Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Why has Pfizer been granted legal immunity by the British government regards its covid vaccine.? mmmH.?
    If all safety studies have been done there is no need.
     
  3. bulkbiker

    bulkbiker Type 2 · Oracle

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    Long term safety studies have of course not been possible so...
    Plus it's usually a condition of most vaccine manufacturers.. same in the USA where theres a govt fund to pay for "vaccine damage" started in 1988 and ha so far paid out almost $4.5 bio.
     
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  4. Ymdawd

    Ymdawd Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    $4.5 billion is an awful lot of money.

    Without doubt vaccines have saved countless millions of lives. But like all manufactured medicines they have side effects too. Sometimes these side-effects are not immediately apparent even in initial safety studies.

    Am not anti-covid vaccine as such, or any vaccine for that matter but the covid vaccine is being rushed too much for my liking.
     
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  5. Oldvatr

    Oldvatr Type 2 · Expert

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    People are being rushed to an early grave for my liking. Too many IMO.

    I do not mind if your liking means that you do not go for the jab, but please, please, PLEASE stop discouraging others.
     
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  6. Ymdawd

    Ymdawd Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    I am not discouraging people at all. I am merely pointing out the obvious.
     
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  7. Oldvatr

    Oldvatr Type 2 · Expert

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    You are conflating medicines with vaccines. They are not the same thing at all. Yes, this thread is peppered with examples of medicines that have been found to have adverse effects. I would say most medicines can have adverse effects as shown in the patient's leaflet in the pack. Also with studies that show long term effects long after the medicine has become common parlance.

    Now tell me what vaccines have been shown to suffer from post-license issues that have meant they had to be withdrawn. Then we can talk about holding up the Covid vaccines.

    Let me start that ball rolling
    https://www.cdc.gov/vaccinesafety/concerns/concerns-history.html
     
  8. bulkbiker

    bulkbiker Type 2 · Oracle

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    Something like this ?
    https://www.bmj.com/rapid-response/2011/10/30/how-can-vaccines-cause-damage

    and of course this..

    https://www.hrsa.gov/vaccine-compensation/index.html

    and this

    https://www.gov.uk/vaccine-damage-payment
     
  9. Ymdawd

    Ymdawd Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    How about anaphylactic shock with flu vaccine.? I agree this is rare but its possibility does exist.

    How about side effects which are not show up until the vaccine has been extensively use. I re-iterate that several years of safety research cannot be done in a couple of months. Why else would phizer get a blanket immunity against any litigation.?
     
  10. Oldvatr

    Oldvatr Type 2 · Expert

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    The MMR report in BMJ is only talking about the effect in children and is conjecture, Its a 'maybe happen'. The Covid vax has a lower age limit of 16 but will not be given to this group until the previous 9 tranches of patients have already been processed and monitored. The Oxford vaccine is undergoing a special trial expansion to specifically test the pediatric response and also I believe in pregnancy. The emergency license will exclude these groups if and when it is granted. This I suggest would provide more extensive data for trend analysis.

    The second one is a statement that shows that compensation is available if a vaccine proves to be harmful. This is good to know but is not giving any examples where it has stepped in to pay compensation.

    The third one shows how to make a claim but again does not show where claims were made in the past.
    So no, none of those is a proper answer to my challenge.

    The MMR vaccine is held up by many to be the smoking gun, but so far no one has managed to prove any causal link, and the vaccine is still being offered without restriction. The link between MMR and autism has been shown to be a fraudulent statement by one disputed HCP. and is not upheld in any court of inquiry, of which there have been several.
     
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  11. Oldvatr

    Oldvatr Type 2 · Expert

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    The effect of eggs causing this reaction is common to all vaccines that use eggs for incubation. It is not the only vaccine to hit this well-documented reaction, and the covid vax centers are employing first responders and a chillout room specifically to protect against this being an issue. The problem is eggs, not the vaccine. All HCP's attending the vax process are receiving training for this.

    As I said in an earlier post, the research for these new vaccines was started in 2015 to combat SARS-1, so they are not without some a priori evaluation, They were also behind the fast reaction to MERS, Ebola, HNV1, and Zikka vaccines so there is some further large scale data on the basic vaccine. The RNA peculiar to Covid is indeed new but was shared worldwide by China last January, so this flavour is the new ingredient that needed safety testing. All the technologies in the process are based on sound science, and there is very little in respect of 'Blue Skies thinking' involved
     
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  12. bulkbiker

    bulkbiker Type 2 · Oracle

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    Click on the link $4.5 bio has been paid out to 7,705 claimants.
     
  13. bulkbiker

    bulkbiker Type 2 · Oracle

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    None of which have ever been released into the general population?
     
  14. Oldvatr

    Oldvatr Type 2 · Expert

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    The USA is a litigious society so that does not surprise me, The report that launched those claims was completed in 2004 which is what your link shows, The WHO did a follow-up series of research studies, and found no causal connection with the DTP vaccine.
    https://www.who.int/vaccine_safety/committee/topics/dtp/statement112002/en/

    I know it has become fashionable to diss the WHO (an excellent band by the way) but the scientists used to be held in high regard as far as their work in health and science was concerned. Recently they have embraced the epidemiologists in a big way, and have lost some of their authority, especially under the current administration. However, although DTP has been discontinued, it has been replaced by the MMR vaccine, which has a more positive track record.
     
  15. bulkbiker

    bulkbiker Type 2 · Oracle

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    Before they became politicised and funded by Bill and Melinda Gates perhaps?
     
  16. Oldvatr

    Oldvatr Type 2 · Expert

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    I would not expect research data to be a public access item, but the data was presented and scrutinised when the vaccines were approved. I think we are getting more transparency with the Covid vaccine than any of the others,

    Do we get data release for the flu jab each year? Would we be concerned and demand they hold it up until it has had mega tests done on it? No? But it's a new strain every year. How do we know it's safe this year, Or do we just make a personal yes/no decision when the offer comes in the post?
     
  17. Oldvatr

    Oldvatr Type 2 · Expert

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    My reply to that would get me rusticated immediately, I will treat it with the contempt it deserves.
     
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  18. hankjam

    hankjam Type 2 (in remission!) · Well-Known Member

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    What is the thing about the Gates? I've never understood this......
     
  19. bulkbiker

    bulkbiker Type 2 · Oracle

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    Gates.. wants to vaccinate everyone in the world, reduce the world population dramatically, has huge influence with little knowledge.
    Has donated to Imperial college, MHRA, Has openly said he thinks there will be 700,000 casualties of a vaccine for COVID..
    Want me to go on?
     
  20. bulkbiker

    bulkbiker Type 2 · Oracle

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    Exactly that's why always refuse it.
     
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