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COVID vaccination

Discussion in 'General Chat' started by notafanofsugar, Nov 14, 2020.

  1. Jim Lahey

    Jim Lahey I reversed my Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Bravo. It's a good job we didn't all blindly listen to government advice on how to treat diabetes eh? You'd think in a community like this, more than any other, we'd be naturally sceptical of any government guidelines. They are not beyond reproach.
     
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  2. Jo_the_boat

    Jo_the_boat Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Yep, sensible approach IMO.
    I think we are all perfectly justified in questioning the authorities and promoting open debate.
    It worries me and puts up a red flag when debate is shut down. There is all sorts of tosh talked, some out of panic because people are desperate to believe that a golden bullet is just round the corner, some out of ignorance, some just to get something out on the internet. But there are papers, articles, videos, etc. by some petty sensible and trustworthy folk, scientists, medics and others. We shouldn't just believe what they say because it's possible they have their own agenda, financial perhaps. But they definitely should not be prevented from speaking out. It's up to us to weed out the irrelevant.
    Here's another article worth a read.
     
  3. Jo_the_boat

    Jo_the_boat Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Quite right, which makes it all the more important to hear a balanced debate about vaccines.
    Believe me, I want an answer to all this as much as anyone.
    Right at the start of this at the beginning of the year we saw horrific film from China and Northern Italy, sensationalized by a frenzied media. Then Fergusons 500,000 deaths (erroneous) warning based on inadequate science and poor data. (He covered himself qualifying his estimate by saying, 'if we don't take drastic action', or something similar.) Well, we took drastic action and ar still taking it. Was it the right action??? To me no. But others may not agree.
     
  4. zand

    zand Type 2 · Expert

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    The problem was we saw China and thought it wouldn't happen to us. We saw Italy and behaved like a rabbit in the headlights. Did we learn from the mistakes Italy made? No we did the same things as they did. Did Australia and NZ learn from our mistakes? Yes.

    I am apprehensive about the Covid vaccines and thought I would refuse one. However having read comments on this thread, particularly those from @Max68 re not being able to afford to wait 10 years for it to be properly assessed, I will have one when I am invited to do so. Not keen on it but I will (probably...)
     
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  5. Max68

    Max68 · Well-Known Member

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    For me the decision is made really due to the situation with my mum. Every time we visit her in the care home behind a Perspex screen she is in constant tears because due to her dementia she cannot understand why we can't hold her hand or give her a hug and to walk out at the end of a visit without being able to physically reassure or comfort her is a feeling I cannot describe without setting off the sites obscene language filter! We can't wait 10 years to be able to have that back. People talk about this pandemic affecting people mentally, well I can tell you being unable to comfort mum destroys my sister and I and I cannot get the constant visions of leaving her out of my head. To hear her shouting at me "I wouldn't leave my mum like this" kicks the wind out of you. If a vaccine allows me to give her a hug and hold her hand then that is a risk worth taking for me.
     
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  6. zand

    zand Type 2 · Expert

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    For me, it was my aunt, also with dementia. She died back in April and I can't forgive myself for not being able to see her for the last 6 weeks of her life. I had to stay away as I had Covid, then there was lockdown, then she died of Covid having picked it up whilst being in rehab for a broken arm. I know it wasn't my fault that I didn't see her, but it feels like it was. I couldn't even speak to her on the phone as the hospital where she went for the initial treatment on her arm lost her hearing aids.
     
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  7. Jim Lahey

    Jim Lahey I reversed my Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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  8. Catlady19

    Catlady19 Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    I don't.
     
  9. Catlady19

    Catlady19 Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Wait, I am being disingenuous? Ok then! Do you know how patronising you sound?
    How, exactly, would you shield the vulnerable and elderly when many of them live with other people and the virus can easily be passed to them.... a vaccine perhaps?
    The vaccines do not appear to be ill-tested, they have been tested on thousands of people; many of the processes which take many years (ie financing and obtaining volunteers for trials) have been extinguished or sped up because this is a pandemic affecting the whole world and it is needed as fast as possible, that does not mean that safety procedures have been erased. The newest Oxford/AstraZeneca vaccine for instance, has been modified from the Ebola vaccine and hence they already had a base to start with. They will all have to pass rigorous safety tests with the MHRA before it can be administered.
    I am well aware of The Great Barrington Declaration (no need for a lecture on them) and actually I totally agree with them in principle (I am not a fan of lockdowns unless needed to protect the NHS) but they do not accurately describe how they would protect the elderly and vulnerable without the use of a vaccine (apart from locking them in a hotel room). Because they can't.
    Yes, we need a full discussion about the vaccines available, ingredients, side effects, etc and they need to pass through MHRA but I do not see how we can achieve safety for elderly and vulnerable people without one. Even the GBD say they do not know how long natural herd immunity will take and it is more likely to be achieved with vaccination.
     
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  10. Goonergal

    Goonergal Type 2 · Moderator
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    All, can we please keep the discussion civil and refrain from sniping. Thanks.
     
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  11. Jim Lahey

    Jim Lahey I reversed my Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    It's a shame they didn't know how much they were actually administering though ;)

    See post #127 for reference. Doesn't sound to me much like a robust clinical trial, but we are all entitled to our own viewpoints of course.
     
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  12. Catlady19

    Catlady19 Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Have you seen this new invention? :woot:
    upload_2020-11-24_10-53-53.png
     
  13. Catlady19

    Catlady19 Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    That's what trials are for - testing which is the best way to administer and what works best. Forgive me for taking the accuracy of a report written in the Daily Mail with a pinch of salt.o_O
     
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  14. Oldvatr

    Oldvatr Type 2 · Expert

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    Not compatible with a mobility scooter or other vehicle driving. Think the gear used by fighter pilots in WW2 more suitable. My son is working on a design using snorkelling gear and recreation diving masks but finding appropriate filters is proving difficult. I note that the photo is entitled VZYR, but the apparatus has VYZR which is presumably translated to Visor so the title is wrong? Or I have OCD?
     
  15. Jim Lahey

    Jim Lahey I reversed my Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Point taken on the Daily Mail, but AstraZeneca have reportedly admitted themselves that they messed-up the dosages. Obviously it's up to the individual to reach their own conclusion but for me the klaxons are going off just on that alone.
     
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  16. Goonergal

    Goonergal Type 2 · Moderator
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    A post has been deleted for ignoring this request.

    Any further, similar posts will be deleted and may incur further sanctions including thread bans.
     
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  17. Catlady19

    Catlady19 Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Well I would say it is a good job they did as they may well have improved the efficacy to 90%! Sometimes God works in mysterious ways. :angelic:
     
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  18. Catlady19

    Catlady19 Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Ooh good spot; the bit in the bottom right was the name of the company and I think was therefore a spelling mistake by the whoever wrote the article. Think it should of said VYZR Technologies.

    Send us a pic of your son's invention when ready, love to see it!
     
  19. Oldvatr

    Oldvatr Type 2 · Expert

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    The admission that they were sufficiently on the ball to detect that something unexpected was going on, and to diagnose it as being that the first dose was diluted, then instigating full dose for the follow up tranche gives me some confidence in their safety monitoring. indeed they halted the trials twice when someone had an adverse reaction that they had to resolve before they resumed also shows they were dealing responsibly with the feedback data.

    Just seen a CDC spox in USA on CNN discuss this dichotomy of "wannit now" vs "wait for more testting" and they say that the first couple of hundred thousand (200K) sessions will be followed up and used to give a further 3 months of safety data that will be shared for peer review too. Does not necessarily apply to Borisland but we can but hope NICE will be in that loop too. The trouble is that lmg term data implies long term wait, unless accelerated methods are used which would undermine the faith in that science too. Part of the delay in authorising the vaccines now is publish and peer review of the safety data by independent reviewers, so hopefully there is no kickback involved there.
     
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  20. Oldvatr

    Oldvatr Type 2 · Expert

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