Cramp - anyone else get it?

[xyzzy]

YES!! They are horrible. I have had them around four and a half years. I am on Quinine sulphate 300mg before bed. If I forget them, boy do I know it. I get cramp in my thigh, calf and toes. Nothing with the Quinine though.

Hey Def did you read BaliRob's post about Quinine sulphate. Maybe a trip to the docs wouldn't go amiss.

 

[Defren]

YES!! They are horrible. I have had them around four and a half years. I am on Quinine sulphate 300mg before bed. If I forget them, boy do I know it. I get cramp in my thigh, calf and toes. Nothing with the Quinine though.

Hey Def did you read BaliRob's post about Quinine sulphate. Maybe a trip to the docs wouldn't go amiss.

I did read it, but the risk is so low and the consequences of not taking the medication so severe, I will stay right where I am. My cramps are so bad I get no sleep with them. Once one bout of cramp is over another starts within minutes, and it's like that all night. Tonic water is fine, but it's still Quinine.

 

[Sid Bonkers]

YES!! They are horrible. I have had them around four and a half years. I am on Quinine sulphate 300mg before bed. If I forget them, boy do I know it. I get cramp in my thigh, calf and toes. Nothing with the Quinine though.

Hey Def did you read BaliRob's post about Quinine sulphate. Maybe a trip to the docs wouldn't go amiss.

I did read it, but the risk is so low and the consequences of not taking the medication so severe, I will stay right where I am.

This is the thing isnt it, most if not all medication carries some side effects and Quinine Sulphate is no exception but if you are suffering with crippling night cramps or worse Malaria, Malaria is a potentially fatal disease caused by various types of single-celled parasites, then the risks are worth it and lets not forget that side effects will not and do not affect everyone, they are a possibility not a foregone conclusion.



This from the Netdoctor web site on Quinine Sulphate http://www.netdoctor.co.uk/travel-healt ... phate.html

Just because a side effect is stated here, it does not mean that all people using this medicine will experience that or any side effect.

Rash.
Nausea.
Sensation of ringing, or other noise in the ears (tinnitus).
Hearing problems.
Headache.
Visual disturbances, such as blurred vision, problems with colour vision and narrowed field of vision.
Low blood glucose level (hypoglycaemia).
Abdominal pain.
Diarrhoea.
Confusion.
Agitation.
Spinning sensation.
Severe swelling of lips, face or tongue (angioedema).
Allergic skin reactions.
Flushing.
Increased sensitivity of the skin to sunlight (photosensitivity).
Narrowing of the airways and breathing difficulties (bronchospasm).
Problems with your blood cells or blood clotting.
Kidney failure.
Muscle weakness.
Abnormal heart rhythms (arrhythmias).



Its awful that you have developed kidney failure BaliRob and I realise how you must feel....theres no buts, that it

 

[jopar]

Try tonic water (slimline of cause)

A lot of GP's will advise this before trying Quinine tablets.

Small tumbler glass of it every day, it does work as my husband uses this he get problems with cramps in his fingers in the main, no problems with cramp unless he forgets to have a tumbler

 

[xyzzy]

Ok so this got weird today.

Woke up 6.00am with cramp gradually starting out in one foot. Got up and went for a pee. Mid pee still hurt, then next thing I've fainted for a couple of seconds or so but luckily just against the wall next to the loo. Wasn't that the cramp was too painful just fainted. Came to and sat down on loo and with around 30 secs later noted the cramps had gone but replaced with hot, sweaty and nausea. Gave it a couple of minutes cleaned up and went back to bed. Woke the wife to say what had happened and took my BG's which were in the 7's so looks like I had liver dumped. Now feel like I've run a marathon and am VERY grumpy but BG's now down in the 5's so normal.

So I'm guessing something along the lines of I was running low at the time I wokeup. To fix the cramp my muscles took up what sugar I had which causing me to faint from low BG's and then liver dump. Does that make sense?

Perhaps I'll move seeing the gp up the agenda as can't be having this.

 

[jopar]

Sure you have a liver dump? As I would have thought that your BG would have been slightly higher than a 7mmol/l...

Not dehydrated are you?

This can lead to dizzy spells, feeling sick and feeling rotten etc..

Another one not coming down with a bug, there's plenty doing the rounds at the moment

 

[Paul1976]

Ok so this got weird today.

Woke up 6.00am with cramp gradually starting out in one foot. Got up and went for a pee. Mid pee still hurt, then next thing I've fainted for a couple of seconds or so but luckily just against the wall next to the loo. Wasn't that the cramp was too painful just fainted. Came to and sat down on loo and with around 30 secs later noted the cramps had gone but replaced with hot, sweaty and nausea. Gave it a couple of minutes cleaned up and went back to bed. Woke the wife to say what had happened and took my BG's which were in the 7's so looks like I had liver dumped. Now feel like I've run a marathon and am VERY grumpy but BG's now down in the 5's so normal.

So I'm guessing something along the lines of I was running low at the time I wokeup. To fix the cramp my muscles took up what sugar I had which causing me to faint from low BG's and then liver dump. Does that make sense?

Perhaps I'll move seeing the gp up the agenda as can't be having this.

What a horrible experience!! :sick: Hope the GP can shed some light on this for you quickly!!

 

[borofergie]

So I'm guessing something along the lines of I was running low at the time I wokeup. To fix the cramp my muscles took up what sugar I had which causing me to faint from low BG's and then liver dump. Does that make sense?

Perhaps I'll move seeing the gp up the agenda as can't be having this.

Get to the Doctor dude. Cramps that cause you to lose conciousness sound a bit scarey to me.

 

[didie]

That doesn't sound good at all. I second Boro's suggestion to get to the GP and things checked today if possible.

 

[xyzzy]

Sure you have a liver dump? As I would have thought that your BG would have been slightly higher than a 7mmol/l...

Not dehydrated are you?

This can lead to dizzy spells, feeling sick and feeling rotten etc..

Another one not coming down with a bug, there's plenty doing the rounds at the moment

My normal fasting level around that time of day is in the 4's so it was 4.3 the same time yesterday. 7.8 is off the scale for me. Even my 2 hour post main meal readings never usually exceed 6 nowadays.

Made sure I wasn't dehydrated before going to bed last night and drank around half a litre of water in the vain hope of not getting cramp. Ran out of slimeline tonic water but going to get some today.

I have never ever fainted before but a first time for everything I suppose. I assume I fainted, world went black, defo lost consciousness even though it was just a couple of seconds or so. Different to just going dizzy like everyone gets if they stand up to fast or such like.

You maybe right that the underlying thing is a bug cos I still feel c**p four and a half hours later. I've had a relatively high sugar breakfast for me by doubling the raspberries and yoghurt I'd normally have.

Still feel totally drained physically so could be coming down with something but thanks for the advice Jopar appreciate it.

 

[phoenix]

I agree with those who say see doctor.
We can all speculate on the reasons for it happening . There are a huge number of possibilities from serious to just one of those things.
However, if you pass out without a wall to save you, you can do yourself serious damage.

 

[peterlemer]

yeah, xyzzy:

I get leg cramps , went on the web, and learnt that a magnesium supplement is recommended.
( Watch out for snake-oil salespeople, though)

(later)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnesium_ ... _(medicine)
>Symptoms of magnesium deficiency include: hyperexcitability, dizziness, muscle cramps, muscle weakness and fatigue

I started taking magnesium supplements and I can report a reduction in night cramp episode.

For a different view try here:

http://goo.gl/bck5E

pete

 

[KeithnrBath]

Definately Quinine is answer.
Got quinine tabs from docs and the severe cramp in my legs stopped.
My cramps were caused by long walks which I can no onger do because of dodgy knee

 

[BaliRob]

Dear All,

The USA banned Quinine Sulphate in 1999 some five years before a UK doctor prescribed it for me. I did not have a computer then and probably would not have questioned whether it was good for me or not. All that I know is that after months of unbearable pain I awoke at 2.15am with pain in my left leg so intense that standing on it to relax the toes upwards, etc., was too much for my brain to take and I lost consciousness, falling to the floor hitting my face upon the side of a chair on the way down. Some five hours later I regained my senses covered in blood and unable to walk on that leg. So YES I understand those who say, "I don't care - anything but those painful cramps - the side affect risks are low - I will continue taking the Quinine".

YES I AGREE at that time I would have done anything to stop the pain forever!!! BUT NOW here I am with a perfect heart but suspect kidneys which are no longer up to the job of removing water from my body. Those that have seen my posts will know that I had an accident last year which resulted in very serious bloodclots to my left leg - COINCIDENCE??? I don't think so. I still have the severe ankle and foot swelling (oedema) which diuretics cannot fix and which I have seen on quite a few of the diabetics here in Indonesia (second most prevalent country after China for Diabetes) prior to infections and foot amputation in very short periods of time. Most leading later to whole leg below the knee removal.

OK so I maybe one of the unlucky ones - but do you want to take the gamble?? Look at the list of possible side-effects again -many of them will be self evident if experienced but who knows about the rest - I DID'T? I feel somewhat cheated because I was not told to go on a trial period and was started on 400mg (2 tabs) as if there were no risks.

I stopped taking Quinine 30th March and, so far, no return of the very painful cramps so it may be possible for them to
abate or go away. In Defren's case I DO understand and wonder whether he is following a parallel path to me. Just a thought but a good muscle relaxant such as Diazepam at night- a small dosage 2mg - may just be the solution (if not tried already).

 

[adifferentstory]

I used to drink a glass of slimline tonic water each night and that used to stop it as it has quinine in. Then it got so severe that my gp has now prescribed quinine tablets. I still get it occasionally but no where near as much as I did.

 

[BaliRob]

Dear Peterlemer,

I wished I had seen your post whilst writing mine. I am grateful for the info re magnesium AND for the
serious warning about Quinine which Med Doc played down I thought and reinforced my stand against
it.

Regards,

Rob

 

[Defren]

This is the thing isnt it, most if not all medication carries some side effects and Quinine Sulphate is no exception but if you are suffering with crippling night cramps or worse Malaria, Malaria is a potentially fatal disease caused by various types of single-celled parasites, then the risks are worth it and lets not forget that side effects will not and do not affect everyone, they are a possibility not a foregone conclusion.



This from the Netdoctor web site on Quinine Sulphate http://www.netdoctor.co.uk/travel-healt ... phate.html

Just because a side effect is stated here, it does not mean that all people using this medicine will experience that or any side effect.

Rash.
Nausea.
Sensation of ringing, or other noise in the ears (tinnitus).
Hearing problems.
Headache.
Visual disturbances, such as blurred vision, problems with colour vision and narrowed field of vision.
Low blood glucose level (hypoglycaemia).
Abdominal pain.
Diarrhoea.
Confusion.
Agitation.
Spinning sensation.
Severe swelling of lips, face or tongue (angioedema).
Allergic skin reactions.
Flushing.
Increased sensitivity of the skin to sunlight (photosensitivity).
Narrowing of the airways and breathing difficulties (bronchospasm).
Problems with your blood cells or blood clotting.
Kidney failure.
Muscle weakness.
Abnormal heart rhythms (arrhythmias).



Its awful that you have developed kidney failure BaliRob and I realise how you must feel....theres no buts, that it

Reading this I am really lucky, I have not had any side effects at all, and like I say been on Quinine for years. I think you have to weigh up the pro's and cons, then make a decision. For me, the medication is a risk worth taking as the cramps are terrible. For me it's a no brainer.

 

[Defren]

Ok so this got weird today.

Woke up 6.00am with cramp gradually starting out in one foot. Got up and went for a pee. Mid pee still hurt, then next thing I've fainted for a couple of seconds or so but luckily just against the wall next to the loo. Wasn't that the cramp was too painful just fainted. Came to and sat down on loo and with around 30 secs later noted the cramps had gone but replaced with hot, sweaty and nausea. Gave it a couple of minutes cleaned up and went back to bed. Woke the wife to say what had happened and took my BG's which were in the 7's so looks like I had liver dumped. Now feel like I've run a marathon and am VERY grumpy but BG's now down in the 5's so normal.

So I'm guessing something along the lines of I was running low at the time I wokeup. To fix the cramp my muscles took up what sugar I had which causing me to faint from low BG's and then liver dump. Does that make sense?

Perhaps I'll move seeing the gp up the agenda as can't be having this.

That doesn't sound good at all. As others have said, see your GP pronto.

 

[cadiche]

I know the cramps well and they always affect me at night. In Australia, the cramps are referred to as CHARLEY HORSE cramps. My sodium intake dropped dramatically and the cramps increased ten fold. As increasing my salt intake is not an option for me, being diabetic with blood pressure problems, I did the only other thing possible - I started taking Magnesium tablets. Since I have taken them (one 350mg tablet per evening) I have not suffered from any more crippling leg cramps.

You might want to give it a go :thumbup:

Rosie

 

[Defren]

Dear All,

The USA banned Quinine Sulphate in 1999 some five years before a UK doctor prescribed it for me. I did not have a computer then and probably would not have questioned whether it was good for me or not. All that I know is that after months of unbearable pain I awoke at 2.15am with pain in my left leg so intense that standing on it to relax the toes upwards, etc., was too much for my brain to take and I lost consciousness, falling to the floor hitting my face upon the side of a chair on the way down. Some five hours later I regained my senses covered in blood and unable to walk on that leg. So YES I understand those who say, "I don't care - anything but those painful cramps - the side affect risks are low - I will continue taking the Quinine".

YES I AGREE at that time I would have done anything to stop the pain forever!!! BUT NOW here I am with a perfect heart but suspect kidneys which are no longer up to the job of removing water from my body. Those that have seen my posts will know that I had an accident last year which resulted in very serious bloodclots to my left leg - COINCIDENCE??? I don't think so. I still have the severe ankle and foot swelling (oedema) which diuretics cannot fix and which I have seen on quite a few of the diabetics here in Indonesia (second most prevalent country after China for Diabetes) prior to infections and foot amputation in very short periods of time. Most leading later to whole leg below the knee removal.

OK so I maybe one of the unlucky ones - but do you want to take the gamble?? Look at the list of possible side-effects again -many of them will be self evident if experienced but who knows about the rest - I DID'T? I feel somewhat cheated because I was not told to go on a trial period and was started on 400mg (2 tabs) as if there were no risks.

I stopped taking Quinine 30th March and, so far, no return of the very painful cramps so it may be possible for them to
abate or go away. In Defren's case I DO understand and wonder whether he is following a parallel path to me. Just a thought but a good muscle relaxant such as Diazepam at night- a small dosage 2mg - may just be the solution (if not tried already).

That he is a she :lol: I do understand what you are saying, but I think you have to weigh up the entire situation and then decide. For me it's quite simple, no Quinine no sleep. I am not very mobile due to other health issues, so can't exercise a lot, or even when I have the cramps move around to much. There is not a hope in hell I would prefer that to the risks (which I believe to be minor, when you have a small regular dose).

Rosie, I may give the Magnesium a go, but I will admit to being very nervous of coming off the Quinine as they do stop all problems.