Defatizing info and links 800kcal diet

[bowell]

As with any other Diet you are advised to have HCP support /Approval

600kcal liquid diet (Optifast)/(slimfast) Plus 200kcal Veg so its really a 800kcal per day diet

Newcastle Study was to try and copy what happed to T2
after Bariatric surgery and The normalisation of plasma glucose
With this diet

In an early stage clinical trial of 11 people, funded by Diabetes UK, all reversed their diabetes by drastically cutting their food intake to just 600 calories a day for two months. And three months later, seven remained free of diabetes.

Press release
http://www.ncl.ac.uk/press.office/press ... 2-diabetes

Report that kicked it all off
http://www.diabetologia-journal.org/Lim.pdf

Reply from Professor Taylor to frequent questions.
http://www.ncl.ac.uk/magres/assets/documents/Diabetes-Reversaloftype2study.pdf

The diet
http://www.ncl.ac.uk/magres/assets/documents/StudyRecipes.pdf

GP notes
http://www.ncl.ac.uk/magres/assets/documents/InformationfordoctorsRT.pdf

BBC News
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-13887909
Sky news report
http://news.sky.com/home/article/16017793

Optifast info on product
http://www.optifast.com.au/why-optifast-vlcd.aspx

Slimfast info on product
http://www.slimfast.co.uk/products/powder-shakes/default.aspx


A few are trying it out


http://www.diabetes.co.uk/diabetes-forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=22908

http://www.diabetes.co.uk/diabetes-forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=22832

http://www.diabetes.co.uk/diabetes-forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=23063

Will you see your Dr about the 600 cal diet?
http://www.diabetes.co.uk/diabetes-forum/viewtopic.php?f=25&t=22453


Read all you can and make your own mind up

Watch your step this subject ,, tends to fire everyone off on a wobbler :mrgreen:

Bob

Edit ow arrr Patch

 

[benedict]

Thanks bowell.

And here is the charity, Diabetes UK's word on the matter.

Dr Iain Frame, Director of Research at Diabetes UK:

Diabetes UK is keen to stress this study involved an extreme diet conducted under close medical supervision. We strongly recommend people do not attempt to lose weight in this way.

 

[Patch]

Nice post! But...

As with any other Diet your advised to have HCP support /Approval

Wrong "your". See me after class... :twisted:

Cheers,
-Pat.

 

[Sid Bonkers]

You're just being pedantic now Patch

 

[bowell]

From GPs Notes

. Significant Restriction of Food Intake
Most individuals will be able to reduce food intake substantially with no short or medium term risks to health. However iron status should be assessed and vitamin supplementation considered when prolonged hypocaloric dieting is undertaken.

3. Medication
a) Sulphonylureas.
These agents can be withdrawn with benefit in order to ensure that hypoglycaemia cannot occur.
b) Insulin.
...At the time of commencement of decreasing food intake, insulin dose in type 2 diabetes
may be substantially decreased, and advice to cut insulin dose by approximately 50% is appropriate. Monitoring of blood glucose must be done daily with a plan to contact appropriate
healthcare professional if blood glucose levels become very high (fasting over 10mmol per litre) or
very low.
c) Other Medication. All other oral hypoglycaemic agents can be decreased or stopped in accordance with degree of control achieved.

 

[bowell]

All diets come with the caveat with medical approval

There is a real risk of going Hypo if you are taking medication with a VLCD
Would be far better if you can get your GP on your side


You can go into any chemists or most Supermarkets pick it up off the self
if you go to the optifast site the 600 plus 200 veg its the normal induction diet
UK Optifast Only find this on-line unless you can get it prescribed
Slimfast lloyds and every Supermarket
Tony Ferguson diet from boots same thing
Exante Diet on-line UK tad maller amount carbs
The LighterLife is also VLCD 800kcl
Cambridge diet starts at 400Kcal<>600Kcal :shock:
if you look around there are loads of meal replacement diets
Some of them are sold via agents bit like Avon lady :roll:

Some don't have all the vitamins and minerals in the main meal and you have buy extras :evil:

You will need to do some homework first

edit to add Exante

 

[clearviews]

Had my annual diabetic review today and my GP had one of the Graduate School of Medicine's student doctors with her. She told the student that I was her success story so she thought I would be a good one for her to do a history taking exercise.

We got on to how I normalised my blood glucose levels through low carbing which brought on a 20 kilo weight loss to bring my BMI to 24 from 30.4. I also explained how had included alcohol once again in the last 12 months and had gained 7 kgs above my desired weight and had recently chosen to kick off the weight loss by using the Optifast 800 cal diet as well as quitting alcohol. The day I had my bloods done I was at day 11 and had lost 2.5 kgs and I anticipated that my cholesterol might have risen slightly as I knew while I lost weight this happen previously and is an expected outcome.

My GP explained to the student that as I understood my condition very well and had demonstrated that with my results, she was more than happy for me to make these decisions and that it showed that T2s can achieve great results.

I am at day 18 and for some days now have been undergoing my own version of the shake diet having run out of a carton of shakes and reaching 3.4kgs of weight loss. I will continue this regime until the last 3.5kgs is gone. A typical day consists of two meals as shakes (berries, coconut milk, lots water, 2 T low carb protein powder, 1 T oil and sometimes a raw egg-from a safe tested source- whizzed all together). A salad and protein meal or vegetable meal all from my Atkins or Bernstein inspired diet is my third meal. My shakes do not cause the 1 hour post rise that the Optifast diet does. This am FBG was 4.9, 1 hour after 4.8, 2 hours after 5.1.

My A1c improved by 0.1 in 16 months and GP suggested that she gave me another blood test request to use to recheck my bloods when I am done losing weight and settled into my usual 30g carbs or less routine.

Result all round and I enjoyed the Optifast and found it much easier to do than I anticipated.

 

[pixor]

I'm having some success on this diet (see my full experiences on my blog - address below).

I haven't seen Optifast locally, so I am using the Atkins Advantage shakes for two meals, and a calorie/carb-controlled evening meal (home cooked). It's generally working well, but I've had a dodgy week with friends coming to stay and some eating out. You never know what restaurants are putting in their food. Still, I hope to get back on track ASAP

 

[bowell]

Slim-Fast and Diabetes
For info

Slim-fast diabetic Web page
http://www.slimfast-medical.co.uk/slimfast and diabetes.html

Slimfast and diabetes Donload Pdf below
http://www.slimfast-medical.co.uk/pdf/21356_SLIM_PDFdesign_Diabetes.pdf

Meal replacement diets for achieving weight loss in people with Diabetes Mellitus (DM) may be used in people with Type 2
Diabetes who do not require insulin. However, they have not been evaluated in people with Type 1 Diabetes in whom, therefore
their use cannot therefore be recommended.
There is no difference in terms of energy, micronutrient and macronutrient content between a meal replacement diet and a
carefully devised self-selected reducing diet chosen from foods. However nutritional requirements are more easily achieved
with meal replacements and clinical trials show that weight reduction and maintenance as well as improvement

Slim fast Diabetes Nutrition.pdf below

http://www.slimfast-medical.co.uk/pdf/21356_SLIM_PDFdesign_DiabetesNutrition.pdf

 

[bowell]

VLCD MEAL COSTS based on Banana Shake

Study meal was Optmifast
Best match Vit & Min Fat Pro Carb content to study meals listed first

Optmifast via ebay ?? £2.78 per shake
http://www.optifast.com/Pages/optifast_home.aspx
Only avalable in the USA NZ USA Euope NOT IN UK
Uk only via NHS prescriptions £2.90 per meal
or via ebay ect

Slimfast £0.50p per shake ************ Best Value per shake :wink:
http://www.slimfast.co.uk/
Around £6 or less a tub 12 Shakes from a tub
Boots ,And most supermarkets
Much the same Vit&Min carbs as Optmifast each shake has 1/3 RDA

Optmislim £0.99 per shake
http://www.optislim.com.au/
Via Loysd Chemists http://www.lloydspharmacy.com
Optislim LCD Life Shake Sachet- Banana 7 x 50g £6.93
Much the same Vit&Min carbs as Optmifast RDA
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Below Vit Min content Unknown Or Carb lower than Study


Exante diet Price:£2.38 per Shake [/color]
http://www.exantediet.com/
no vit min info

Tony Ferguson diet £1.99 per Shake [/color](boots)
http://www.tonyferguson.co.uk/Home.aspx
No vit min info

Celebrity slim via superdrug £1.99 per Shake[/color]
http://www.celebrityslim.co.uk/
No info on Vit&Min

Atkins-Advantage 11.24 per tin 10 meals per tin £1.24 per shake [/color]
http://www.boots.com/en/Atkins/
Low carb Carbohydrates 2.8g Carbs NOT as per study no Vit min info
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Need To Join First :evil: :evil:
Lipotrim Need to Join Shake £1.49 per shake[/color]
http://www.lipotrimmaintenance.com/
No info on Vit Min

Cambridge Diet Need to join Via ebay £1.80 pershake ?
http://www.cambridgeweightplan.com/?gclid=CPSr-ICi26oCFdQOfAodOT7u7w
No vit min info

lighterlife Need to join No cost or Vit& Min Info
http://www.lighterlife.com/default.aspx

 

[bowell]

Bump to save you Asking questions find Answers in here

 

[kaazoom]

I've just seen my GP about my latest hba1c blood test. He said I ave moderate control and need to be tested again in 3 months. He is alo referring me to a nutritionist as I have really struggled with adapting my diet. The advice to eat a normal balanced diet, something I have always done, is of little or no help to me.

I read about the results of the study using the Optifast diet and this looks a everything is spelt out. I may be thick, but that I need a plan that takes little thought. The problem for me is Optifast is expensive, but reading this thread I can see that even using Slimfast might work. I can afford that.

I have one query. In the original diet used in the study is say no dairy, not even skimmed milk. If this is so, what are the shakes mixed with? :? Or is this just saying no additional skimmed milk?

 

[borofergie]

The shakes are mixed with water.

As far as I've seen from here, no one has managed to get their hand on any Optifast.

Optislim is a good alternative, it's very cheap and designed as a proper Very Low Calorie diet, so it has all of the minerals and stuff that you need.

 

[kaazoom]

Thanks. I'm not sure Slimfast would be ok in water. Although there is little difference in the consistency of water and skimmed milk, so it may be worth trying. The problem with Optislim is it isn't as easy to get hold of as Slim Fast, and it is twice the price.

 

[minn]

My first post- ever, I've never joined a forum before. I read about the Newcastle study in the summer and after mulling over all the info ( though limited by the fact that I'm no scientist) decided to give it a go. I am an angry T2 'diabetic':- having been diagnosed with a different chronic illness in my early 20s, and spent nearly 20 years getting that under control (an experience which has left me with a profound scepticism regarding the HCPs ) I was furious after a few years of 'normal' life to find myself saddled with another label. The practice nurse and I are in a state of open warfare and my GP flinches when she sees me coming. I am not on any medication for the diabetes- when the medical profession shifted the goalposts a few years ago so that it was 'recommended' that I go on metformin even though my BG levels were the same as the previous couple of years I refused- I've taken too many tablets over the years, and endured enough medical u turns to add things to the drug cocktail when nothing has changed.
I ran the plan past my GP at the annual MOT and she has approved it. I found this forum when searching for other people's experiences. I must say the open hostility of some people to this experiment made me reluctant to join in and post anything, and it isnt something I would normally do, but after following the 'guinea pigs' posts for a couple of weeks it seemed cowardly not to contribute.
I've identified an 8 week period when it will be easiest to stick to, ( family back at work/school/university and no birthdays/anniversaries/celebrations to distract me) which starts on 19th September, I've ordered the drinks, taken a raincheck on all socialising that revolves around eating and am ready to get on with it. I will post my starting BG, weight etc on the 19th. Many thanks to those who have posted their experiences- you've been a great help.

 

[viviennem]

Hello Minn, and welcome.

It will be really interesting to see how you get on with the diet, so please do keep posting. Don't be put off by "open hostility" - some of it is maybe blunt speaking rather than hostility, it takes a bit of time to get used to reading posts without accompanying body language. I know I had trouble.

Mind you, one or two of us do rub each other up the wrong way occasionally :wink: , but if it gets too bad Admin or the Forum Monitors/Moderators knock a few heads together and everything calms down for a while. :lol:

I'm glad your GP is backing you on this one. Good luck with it - I think our "guinea-pigs" have proved that it works if you're determined.

Viv 8)

 

[minn]

Thanks for your kind words-just got to get to grips with using the BG monitor and I'm ready. As a matter of interest how often should I test? My sister is type 1, late diagnosis ( in her late 30s - her GP was convinced her weight loss was anorexia/bulimia) and her levels are all over the place with a fair number of hypos, so she checks all the time. I'll spend a fortune on strips if I do that. First thing fasting, 2 hours after breakfast and at night seem usual from the posts here?
M

 

[viviennem]

You've got a full week before you start the "defatizing" diet, haven't you?

If I was in your place, and this is your first time with a blood glucose monitor, I would test first thing, then immediately before each meal, 2 hours after every meal, and at bed time. This will give you an idea of how your blood sugars vary over the day, and will also indicate which foods in your present diet affect your BGs by sending them high. I'd keep a diary for the week, noting down all your test results, and what you eat and when.

The standard NHS recommended diet, including starchy carbs, seems to work for some people but not for others. I for one can't eat much more than about 70g of carb a day and expect to stay low, and I generally eat less than that because I'm on a low-carb weight loss diet.

I think some of our 'guinea pigs' are following this daily test regime on the drinks diet, but as you say, so many test strips are expensive! Has your doctor not offered you a meter and strips on prescription? Some PCTs are witholding test strips from Type 2s, but they are an essential part of managing your blood sugars in terms of finding out what foods affect you. Maybe your doctor might let you have them now, since she seems okay with you doing the diet. You could persuade her that keeping a diary of your blood sugar levels while on the diet would be interesting evidence for her to see how it works.

If you can't get them on prescription, then maybe test first thing, last thing, and after every meal. I don't test a lot now, because I know which foods affect me. I do extra tests if I'm eating something unusual or a treat - like fish & chips! :lol:

Maybe when you start, you could post your own thread alongside all the other "defatizers", so it's easy to see how you are all doing.

Viv 8)

 

[minn]

No harm in asking for a prescription. I'll email tomorrow- no point trying to see her, I'll be 2 weeks into the diet before I get an appointment and I really want to get the 8 weeks plus the reintroduction of normal food for a good number of weeks in before Christmas and all the temptations that always presents! Failing that I think I'll take the financial hit at least to start with- otherwise I wont know what I'm doing. I have never had anything but the annual full whammy bloods with the phlebotomist, though watching my sister I know how to do it, and it would be sensible to have a weeks ordinary eating results to compare with, especially for when I start to reintroduce normal foods.Thank you for that suggestion. I do eat quite a lot of carbs- it was necessary on some of the drug regimes I've had, but not on the current one (I did hash that out with the GP), so it's really just a bad habit that this diet should hopefully help me to kick.

I would be willing to start a new thread , but have no idea how to do it and it doesnt seem to be covered in the FAQs.

 

[daisy1]

Hi minn
To start a new thread go to Board Index and scroll down until you come to the Weight Loss Forum or click on Weight Loss at the top of this page. Click on that and you will be in the forum and New Topic is written at the top so you just click on it, compose a title for your thread in the subject box and then write your text. Hope this helps.