Defatizing with Optislim by Patch

[Leapoffaith]

Thank you patch, that's helpful, and thank you Bob your post is extemely helpful.
I had already figured i needed to stop taking the meds, but it is nice to have confirmation.
I had intended to start tomorrow but i have just been given anti biotics from the doc, and i need to eat with them, so i will start monday, i have the alo vera ultra shakes, my friend sells the alo products so i got a bit of discount on them, i have the alo gel also to take with them, they are 90 cals made with water or 200 made with skimmed milk, so i thought i could make them with 5oz water and 5oz of skimmed milk and that makes them around 150 cals ish... i just need to find out exactly what veg i can eat, and how many cals the veg is, I am sure i will have it figured out by Monday.

 

[bowell]

Be very careful with you meal replacement choice that you get your daily Vit & min rec daily dose

You should be looking at 200Kcal per drink x 3 600kcal plus 200kcal Veg 800kcal per day
I dont know whats in the Alo vera ultra shakes, :shock: had a quick look on line can not find
list of the Vit & Min :roll:

This is the study Menu inc the allowed Veg
http://www.ncl.ac.uk/magres/assets/documents/StudyRecipes.pdf

This link has most the info you will need
http://www.diabetes.co.uk/diabetes-forum/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=23135


Bob

 

[Leapoffaith]

Thanks for all your help Bob,

You have been a star
.


I have stopped taking metformin, i can't start the diet until Monday when i have finished the anti biotics, i really do have to eat with them or i will feel really sick or even be sick, which is counter productive, so best to start on the right foot, minus the anti Bs.
stay strong and keep going. I really can't imagine how wonderful a life with out diabetes will be, even if i could seriously reduce the meds i would be elated.
Michele.

 

[bowell]

Patch......Are you finding you are stinking your WC out More Now ???
Just something my wife said :lol: ..as she was swinging the back door back and forth

how wonderful a life with out diabetes

My main focus is the wheelchair belly ,if i end up with no meds or Less meds that will be a welcome bonus

Bob

 

[Patch]

Can't say I am, bob. If anything they smell EVEN MORE like roses now...

 

[bowell]

So thats a yes then

 

[Patch]

Even MORE rosey.

 

[pixor]

@Leapoffaith - I'm not a Dr, so feel free to ignore me, but if you are talking about stopping insulin and metformin, I'd at least talk to your Dr about it. Some may be useless when it comes to diabetes, but others seem supportive and helpful with this diet.

I was told to go on gliclizide as well as the metformin I was already taking. I decided not to start taking gliclizide until I saw how the diet went, but I have continued to take my metformin until my blood sugar levels are normalised.

For the record, my Dr did a poor job of hiding his skepticism, but decided to humour me. He said he expected me to have to start on gliclizide at my next review. I've gone from around 12 mmol/l to 6 mmol/l for fasting measurements, and am about to have my next hba1c taken, so I'm hoping I'll show him!

He said that if my hba1c was down by one point, the that was the best I could hope for. I take that as a challenge :roll:

 

[WhitbyJet]

Good luck pixor, fingers crossed for you

 

[Patch]

Pixor - dodge your HbA1c for AS LONG AS YOU CAN!!! It's a 90 day average, so your previous hi-BG's will push it up, even if your NEW readings are super low-low.

Get a couple of months under your belt for REALLY impresive HbA1c results.

Then rub 'em in your Dr.'s face!!! :twisted:

 

[Leapoffaith]

@Leapoffaith - I'm not a Dr, so feel free to ignore me, but if you are talking about stopping insulin and metformin, I'd at least talk to your Dr about it. Some may be useless when it comes to diabetes, but others seem supportive and helpful with this diet.

I was told to go on gliclizide as well as the metformin I was already taking. I decided not to start taking gliclizide until I saw how the diet went, but I have continued to take my metformin until my blood sugar levels are normalised.

For the record, my Dr did a poor job of hiding his skepticism, but decided to humour me. He said he expected me to have to start on gliclizide at my next review. I've gone from around 12 mmol/l to 6 mmol/l for fasting measurements, and am about to have my next hba1c taken, so I'm hoping I'll show him!

He said that if my hba1c was down by one point, the that was the best I could hope for. I take that as a challenge Follow my diabetic experiences at diabetic-living.net. I'm currently doing the de-fatizing Newcastle diet!

Pixor. thanks for taking the time to post that for me, I totally get where you are coming from, but i have lost faith in my Dr, i have done everything they told me to do, and the result has been six years of hell.
However i am due to see my GP tomorrow RE:- Chest infection, and i will run it by him, now that you have put it in black and white it seems to make sense.
My intention is to cut the insulin by half to start with and see how i go. The diabetic consultant has taken me of gliclizide, because my kidney function is so poor, he said it will protect my kindneys. (not taking it)
I don't know why, as previously stated i have just done as i am told so far.
PATCH i am so sorry i keep hijacking your link. i really hope everyone does really well with this diet and tuffs it out. fingers crossed for all of you.

Michele.

 

[pixor]

I don't think I can reasonably dodge my HbA1c, as my Dr was quite concerned by my last one, and wants to monitor me more closely. I am having to argue for the strips for regular testing, so I hope that if I am showing some improvement then that will help my argument. Plus, I have some nice graphs of my last 2 months to show him

I hope I'll get another HbA1c in a couple of months. Hopefully they are not getting cut back!

 

[Kenny]

I'm currently doing the de-fatizing Newcastle diet!
Michele.

How long have you been on the diet?

I think you will need to cut out the Metformin altogether. If you don't, please keep a sugary drink or a small candy in your pocket for when you get a hypo.

Also, you need to get a South Park style avatar as the diet simply will not work without one. As Dr Taylor said in the study report: "The elimination of fat in the pancreas and liver, together with the adoption of a South Park style avatar, has been shown to reverse diabetes."

If you can stay the course, and you can, I think you will be delighted with the results.

"We few, we happy few, we band of brothers and sister"

 

[Patch]

"The elimination of fat in the pancreas and liver, together with the adoption of a South Park style avatar, has been shown to reverse diabetes."

It all makes sense, now...

 

[bowell]

Never in the field of human conflict was so much owed by so many to so few

 

[Patch]

Major MAJOR development!!!

Last night and this morning, I subbed a protein Shake (0g carbs) for my evening meal, and my breakfast meal.

Last Night:
Pre-meal BG: 6.1mmol/L
Post Protein Shake: 7.1mmol/L

I also had some sliced tomatoe with mayo and black pepper, and 20(ish) green olives about 1.5hr after the shake.

This morning:
Pre meal BG: 7.8mmol/L
Post Protein Shake: 11.8mmol/L

That 11.8mmol/L is the highest reading I've had for ages - even after food. (I cheated on Wed night. me and the missus went to La Tasca. I din't go MAD on the carbs 9a few patatas bravas, and my post meal BG was 7.8mmol/L <that was a happy surprise!) This mornings 7.8 is a pretty high pre-meal reading, though...

Maybe lo-carb shakes AREN'T beneficial after all? [b[MAYBE[/b] some (and this is confusing to me) sugar IS beneficial???

Next experiment - mix Optislim & Protein Powder (50/50) to get a 10g carb shake. See how that effects my BG.

 

[phoenix]

One off experiment may not mean anything Patch n=1 doesn't allow for normal variations
Personally I still think that if you're going to do this then it's better to stick to the original diet of both shakes and veggies.

I do have some thoughts on why a protein shake might increase your levels more than one with a higher level of carbs .. but they are only thoughts and by no means certain.
In one experiment they found that after a meal a healthy non D male used about 40 g of glucose from that meal during the three hours after eating (the rest of the glucose was stored as glycogen). Your optislim supplies glucose that can be used immediately but not enough left over to store.
If glucose isn't available from the meal then normally glycogen stores would provide it. Your glycogen stores on this diet will inevitably be low.The liver can come to the 'rescue' by making glucose from protein and even fat (gluconeogenesis). People with T2 often have a higher rate of gluconeogenesis than non ds, (one wiki article says 3x) so providing more glucose than you need.

 

[Patch]

Great post, Phoenix. Really appreciate the input.

WRT gluconeogenesis - my new, defatized Liver is probably just itching to show off to all my other organs what he can do now! :lol: Bloody show off. :wink:

 

[pianoman]

I'm aware that when Triglycerides (Fats) are broken down to release their three Fatty Acids, their Glycerol backbone can be used to reconstruct Glucose (2 Glycerol molecules for each Glucose molecule) But I am not aware of any pathway for the body to create new Glucose out of Fat?

The opposite is true: Glucose (and Fructose) can be converted to Fat.

 

[bowell]

I think your playing around with it to much Patch , what do i know im only 4 days in
Your steadfast belief in low carb is now holding you back, "Go with the force Luke"

I think we should try and stick with the study menu
Your first week when sticking to the menu thing were going the right way
weekend away ,out with the wife ,playing with the protein mixes ect

I do think carbs must play some part in this system Reboot ,its still a small overall amount of carbs
Bit like fishing you need a worm on the hook
Otherwise why did the study stick with standard Mix? :roll:

Even before this my +1hrBG would be as High on my normal diet lowish carb
diet no Bread no spuds no rice back down at the 2hr mark
As long as im below 7 +2hrs i will be happy

Try some Slimfast see if that works better for you ? its Not gritty like the Optislim

From slimfast Docs This was the T2 advise before the study ?
http://www.slimfast-medical.co.uk/pdf/21356_SLIM_PDFdesign_Diabetes.pdf

Many patients show improved metabolic control during and after weight loss. Sensitivity to insulin can
increase soon (48–72 hours) after commencing the diet, so early and frequent reassessment is recommended, with
frequent self-monitoring of blood glucose and adjustment of drug dosage.
Metformin If on maximal or near maximum doses reduce by 500mg, initially, taking this from either the first or second
dose of the day.
Sulphonylureas If on maximal or near maximum dose reduce by 25 to 33% (e.g. 15mg glibenclamide to 10mg
glibenclamide) at the commencement of the diet and readjust as necessary after a few days. On lower doses reduce slightly
(e.g. by 2.5mg for glibenclamide, by 40mg (half tablet) for gliclazide, by 2.5mg for glipizide, by 1mg for glimepiride).