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Definition of 'Reversed / Cured' Type 2

bobrobert said:
But do you consider yourself cured and do you believe that your diabetes will EVER return?
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Well, I can eat normally, I have no complications, I take a minimal dose of metformin from personal choice, (at the last review the HCP asked me if I wanted to stop).
So yes, I consider it reversed.

As to will it ever return, who knows?
Maybe it will, maybe it won't.
I intend to simply keep my weight down, and not let diabetes rule my life, either by being diabetic, or testing every time I eat and panicking over a slightly high reading, or stressing if the menu doesn't suit my preferences, or letting it interfere in my life in any way, other than getting my annual check up.
 
You are still on medication so that means the medicine is controlling you? You appear to be well controlled but not cured?
 
bobrobert said:
You are still on medication so that means the medicine is controlling you? You appear to be well controlled but not cured?
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Only if you believe 500mg of metformin is a magic bullet.
 
There are a lot of members looking for news of a cure so any false hopes should be dashed until a medical authority announces one and any hints should be squashed?
 
bobrobert said:
There are a lot of members looking for news of a cure so any false hopes should be dashed until a medical authority announces one and any hints should be squashed?
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Maybe they should try the Newcastle diet as well then?
I can only go by the results.
And do you really believe we should be waiting for the NHS to lead the way for us?
And you believe in censoring anything they don't tell us?
 
bobrobert said:
There are a lot of members looking for news of a cure so any false hopes should be dashed until a medical authority announces one and any hints should be squashed?
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Reverse versus managed with diet versus cured is a constant theme with respect to type 2 on this forum. I wouldn't call it false hope to inform type 2 diabetics that a low carb diet can result in normal blood glucose levels.
 
I have my glucose tolerance test done today. Pre-test it was 5.2 ; Two hours after drinking 410mls of lucozade my blood sugar level was 6.3 mmol and after 3 hours it was 4.8.
I would like to believe it is reversed now.
 
I've found reading this thread to be very interesting, especially in that everyone seems to have a different basis in relation to being considered as 'in remission' or 'reversed' Personally, I don't like the term 'cured' as I can't imagine there is no risk of returning to a diabetic state etc.

It's obvious there is no standard criteria but perhaps, in the future, this could change, maybe

Thanks very much to all who have contributed here. I'd like to think I could 'reverse' my diabetes at some stage in the future, preferably sooner rather than later, so this has to remain a 'hope' for me ;)
 
kokhongw said:
While many of us have managed to achieve normalized glucose level with HbA1c ~ 5.5%, few if any have been able to restore normal 1st phase insulin response sufficiently to handle high carb loads.

Dropping the carbs gives our pancreas and liver some relief. But much work is still needed to heal from the years of damages. That's why I find Valter Longo's research on stem cells regeneration thru fasting/refeeding cycles insightful and promising. Addressing some of the gaps/issues faced by long term low carbers or those on chronic calorie restricted diet.

Clearing away the damaged and regenerating healthy new cells is the holy grail...
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@kokhongw

This entire forum is very interesting from the point of view of everyone trying to find a fix to their T2DM yet you were the first person to mention Phd Valter Longo and his work. I've listened to some of his work and its very interesting. He's advocating incorporating fasting as a long term goal for better health across the board, reduced numbers of cancers, regeneration of internal organs etc It really improves the longevity of one's health..


Very interesting indeed..

LBB
 
Contralto said:
but wouldn't call it a certainty, either. Ex. My sugars went form near normal to 675 in one day as an infection raged while waiting for antibiotic delivery

Anyone on even a maintenance dose is not even in remission until no drugs are needed at all, and if they have to maintain a low carb diet, they are still eating a diet that non diabetics can ignore. So, I figure there is no cure, as yet, there is only a consistent struggle.
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I'm cured. No struggle was required, just eating steak instead of spuds, pasta, bread, etc.
 
My GP told me that I would need 3 years of normal Hba1C results to be removed from the register, mind you, she also recommended the eatwell plate, avoid fats, and advised that I shouldn't except my Hba1c to come down any faster than 6 points over a year. I don't care what I am classed as anymore, I do know that my own interventions and education have led me to the healthiest, lightest, fittest, and most nutritionally informed place I have been as an adult - so the only label I care about is 'healthy and informed' - I don't yearn to return to my previous lifestyle, even if my pancreas could handle it - life is so much better now in many ways. Do miss beer though......
 
I was told by my DN that my T2 was considered 'resolved' because I had two good HbA1c results in a row. I asked whether that meant that I wouldn't be called for eye exams etc. and she couldn't tell me (just that I should come back in for a blood test in 6 months).

Personally I believe my numbers are good (see signature) because I've adopted LCHF and have upped the exercise and lost weight. I'm happier with 'controlled'

I've only been diagnosed about 10 months now so it seems a bit early to be saying my T2 is 'resolved'
 
geefull said:
I was told by my DN that my T2 was considered 'resolved' because I had two good HbA1c results in a row. I asked whether that meant that I wouldn't be called for eye exams etc. and she couldn't tell me (just that I should come back in for a blood test in 6 months).

Personally I believe my numbers are good (see signature) because I've adopted LCHF and have upped the exercise and lost weight. I'm happier with 'controlled'

I've only been diagnosed about 10 months now so it seems a bit early to be saying my T2 is 'resolved'
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This is the advice from Public Health England:-

Current evidence shows that all people with diabetes should be screened for diabetic retinopathy for life once there has been a definite diagnosis of diabetes, excluding gestational diabetes. New GP Read codes were introduced in 2014 to take this guidance into account.

Before 2014, many GPs used the code ‘Diabetes resolved’ for patients whose blood sugar levels normalised following treatment, such as pancreatic transplant, or intensive weight reduction. These patients were then removed from the register of people requiring annual retinal screening – even though their risk of developing diabetic retinopathy may have increased following a rapid improvement in diabetes control.

Such patients should now be classified as ‘Diabetes in remission’. This ensures they are still invited for screening.

GPs should therefore review all patients with a ‘Diabetes resolved’ Read code and amend to ‘Diabetes in remission’ as appropriate. Local diabetic eye screening programmes should review their registers to ensure that patients who should be recalled for screening are not marked as ‘no longer diabetic’ in their screening programme software systems.
https://phescreening.blog.gov.uk/20...dont-slip-through-diabetic-eye-screening-net/​
 
So is there a minimum amount of carbs your need to eat before you can say using which ever term you like that you are no longer in the type 2 diabetes phase?

Strikes me that if your HBA1C goes up when you eat a normal( what ever that is) amount of carbs and have no medication your still diabetic??? Are there guidance?

Can I ask another question, what's the register?

My overall feeling echoes others, it's a nice label to feel
Good but otherwise what does it matter? I presume insurance companies etc don't accept it as a change to your risk?
 
Mr_Pot said:
That sounds strange, anybody know why?
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This gives some clinical observations, though they don't explain why...
http://www.diabeticretinopathy.org.uk/retinopathyprogression.htm
Generally retinopathy progresses according to the parameters below. There are very few exceptions. Once background retinopathy develops, unless diabetic control is improved as below, the retinopathy will deteriorate, laser will be needed, and even with laser sight may be affected.

  • glucose level/HbA1c, linear relationship with retinopathy progression
  • blood pressure, linear relationship
  • lipid level, probably a near linear relationship
  • smoking, probable linear relationship (some work suggests 20 cigarettes a day triples/quadruples retinopathy, others less so)
  • pregnancy may cause a rapid deterioration
  • sudden improvement (lowering to normal) of glucose levels in a person whose diabetes has been poorly controlled for sometime see and here .
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My mother always tells everybody that I've cured my diabetes although I consider myself well controlled. With this particular subject it's a case of to each their own.
 
Mr_Pot said:
That sounds strange, anybody know why?
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It's probably related to retinal blood flow. High blood glucose is known to increase blood flow to the retina. Dropping the glucose to normal causes a reduction in blood flow. Depending on the amount of retinopathy that has already occurred, the retina may respond to this reduced blood flow by producing growth factors that promote growth of new vessels (proliferative retinopathy). These new vessels are fragile and bleed easily thereby obscuring the vision.

It is thought that the long-term overall reduction in diabetic retinopathy progression from sudden improvement in diabetic control outweighs any short-term deterioration. However, some experts advise a more gradual improvement in control to try and avoid this potential problem.

Continuing to screen people who were definitely diabetic but who have improved their HbA1c to normal levels through diet etc. allows any subsequent sight-threatening changes to be picked up early and treatment offered, if needed, at the most effective time.
 
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