Delaying the Progression of Type 1 Diabetes

[tim2000s]

The topic is exercise perhaps prolonging the honey moon period perhaps that's why some diets haven't been mentioned? (Yes, I know I mentioned low carbing myself but that was as a question to someone who described the pancreas spewing out insulin whenever it felt like it.)
Re the higher prevalence of eating disorders amongst those with T1...surely that's because T1s have an extra tool they can use (or not use!) to lose weight?
Re "Change it", that's what T2s have to do, yet folk generally think that T2s love their food too much.

There appear to be multiple mechanisms for doing so though. Diet, exercise, stasis.

The difficulty with prolonging the honeymoon is that it's very often like having a misfiring engine, and you can be up and down inconsistently. While exercise may "extend" it, reducing the need for insulin (i.e. diet) is likely to make it easier to manage. It's balancing the two factors that's important.

 

[Alexandra100]

Stress hormones perhaps, cortisol and or adrenalin raise bloods and can happen during exercise when you push past your 'comfort zone'.

Interesting! I never see a rise when I run or train with weights, but quite often do after staggering a mile home uphill carrying a heavy rucsac full of groceries.

the honeymoon phase tends to follow a type 1 diagnosis, it comes after insulin therapy has started

My understanding is that in LADA the person may limp on sometimes for years producing little insulin but not quite little enough for insulin to be prescribed, though maybe it ought to be.

 

[Alexandra100]

No one was using a CGM so all results we shared were from BG meters and testing was done upon waking, before meals/driving/exercise and before bed so we were unable to see spikes. However it was perfectly clear to me that whilst some could eat normally and manage their insulin to suit, I alone, was the exception

I accept your general point, that regimes have to be personalised and what doesn't work for one may be fine for another. However, since this group was not testing after meals, no-one can really know the effect their carbs were having on them.

 

[DCUKMod]

Alexandra, what exactly are you honeymooning from, in the absence of any diagnosis?

As I have said before, you are at liberty to live your life in your own chosen way, but your posts can be misleading.

@Alexandra100 - I can only assume you missed my post in your flurry of recent activity?

 

[Circuspony]

Interesting thread! I'm 14 months post diagnosis at the age of 43. C-peptide testing in Dec 17 showed my pancreas to be 'sluggish' - it joined the party about 90 mins after the yoghurt drink and then did a bit to help out but my BG level was 15.9 at the end of the 2 hours so showed that without artificial insulin I'd be stuffed.

I do a lot of steady exercise every day and that might be why I'm on tiny insulin doses (i eat carbs but rarely need more than 3 units for a meal). I've got another C-peptide in Nov so it'll be interesting to see how I'm doing.

For me the timing of meals with carbs in is critical. Novorapid causes me to crash if its in my system for any afternoon exercise. That means lunch needs to be low carb. I can't hold my weight low carbing all day though so plan my meals around what I'm doing.

In all honesty I find it a real hassle. The days of eating / exercising without any real thought are long gone.

 

[Juicyj]

I accept your general point, that regimes have to be personalised and what doesn't work for one may be fine for another. However, since this group was not testing after meals, no-one can really know the effect their carbs were having on them.

Although spikes were not being measured, their bg levels were in target range before their next meal, testing before meals and not after eating is something DAFNE advocates type 1's to measure against. Whilst some consider it important to measure the spikes, it's not information that can be acted on with insulin therapy as you cannot administer insulin whilst you're still peaking from your last injection, otherwise you run the risk of stacking insulin. What it could influence is the potential timing of the insulin injection, but regardless the most important measure of response is where your BG is 3-4 hours afterwards when both insulin and carbs have been processed and whether you are in range then, which as a type 1 is key information to help me monitor my control.

My understanding is that in LADA the person may limp on sometimes for years producing little insulin but not quite little enough for insulin to be prescribed, though maybe it ought to be.

This is quite different to the honeymoon phase, slow onset isn't a honeymoon phase.

 

[Alexandra100]

@Alexandra100 - I can only assume you missed my post in your flurry of recent activity?

Sorry, no, but to reply to you I have to think and write carefully and at some length and I haven't the time right now. I shouldn't be posting at all, but I fall to temptation. TBH I've said it all a few times before and I'm getting a bit fed up with repeating myself.

 

[Scott-C]

No, I mean I want to know about Scott's barmaid not a deadly pizza!

Lol, what happens in the Barony stays in the Barony!

 

[SamJB]

Crikey, some healthy debate going on here!

I personally wouldn't have wanted to extend my honeymoon period. I didn't have a clue what I was doing with diabetes back then, had 2 hospitalizations because of hypos and the hypos were a huge source of anxiety for me, with daily panic attacks thrown in.

Throwing a cat among the pigeons, it was only low carbing that relieved me of this anxiety.

 

[LooperCat]

Can’t remember if I’ve said it already, but I didn’t have a hineym7period that I’m aware of. I had gastric flu, and three days later I was in hospital with a dead pancreas. I’m kind of glad of that on/off switch, because the constant splurts of insulin from a dying pancreas would have made it even harder to adjust.

Having said that... recent research (I’m sure you can find it if you google, I’m in a bit of a rush to get some stuff just now) has suggested that dragging out the honeymoon as long as possible could be beneficial as stem cell (I think) treatment may soon be able to regenerate beta cells. But it can’t do that if they’re all dead, so if you can hang on to some functional ones, it could really help long term.

 

[NicoleC1971]

Lots of interesting questions here that seem to have not much to do with the original honeymooning info! Back in 1++++++++981 aged 10 I didn't get one.
What we all come here for, as well as support and understanding, is information. New information can cause our old assumptions to be threatened then we either reject it as invalid (person saying it does not have my disease or why should anyone tell me what to do) or decide if the implications should have any impact on how we manage our condition.
My assumption had always been that I was at fault for failing to achieve blood sugars under 7. I have recently been challenged in that assumption by people like Richard Bernstein and Ian Lake who point out the near impossibility of getting under 7s whilst eating higher carb (I am talking about Time in Range and not swinging from hypos to hyper then getting a mean average of under 7).
I want to believe this and I think I can given the rationale of Bernstein's law of small numbers and my growing belief that minimising my exposure to insulin might be a good thing, but when I was very into my carbs I really did not want to be told that I should give them up. In exchange for continuing to eat toast I was happy to believe that I just needed to get my dose calculations perfect most of the time but it just didn't work for me from a blood sugar or weight management perspective.
As a low carber I still don't have perfect control but I don't have hypo anxiety either and can exercise for 3 hours (just done this) without breakfast or snacking.
My point is that we should not be threatened by new ideas but just ask ourselves what we wish to do in our own lives. If it feels threatening ask yourself why that is?

 

[bulkbiker]

What this topic completely ignores is the other dietary approach to significantly improving management as put forward by "MangoMan", which pushes a vegan, mainly raw, low fat diet. And seems to be very successful too in managing T1D (and by all accounts T2D). That doesn't mean that low carb is wrong. It just demonstrates that there is more than one approach that seems to work effectively (although all at first appear to be relatively extreme).

As has been discussed many times on the forum before, food is not only a treatment. It's a social and mental paradigm and simply stating "Change it" is a great deal harder for most than words imply. If this wasn't the case, there wouldn't be the significantly higher prevalence of eating disorders amongst those with T1D than the normal population.

Just checked out the testimonials on Cyrus's page.
There is one from a Type 2 who has "dropped metphormin(sic) by half and insulin by half, and mostly I believe that within five more months of this, I will be completely off all medication."
And one Type 1 Who was newly diagnosed so can't really draw any conclusions..
https://www.mangomannutrition.com/testimonials/
the rest all seem to be trainers or athletes or others who lose weight by following a WFPB way of eating but that's hardly surprising if they were eating SAD beforehand...
As well as from the constant prompts to "subscribe" I find this a bit surprising.. he makes claims but so far as I know has never published anything (unless I have missed it) there certainly doesn't appear any links to any publications from his site.
So does it work or not? Seems more like a leap of faith than say a Virta study.

 

[tim2000s]

Just checked out the testimonials on Cyrus's page.
There is one from a Type 2 who has "dropped metphormin(sic) by half and insulin by half, and mostly I believe that within five more months of this, I will be completely off all medication."
And one Type 1 Who was newly diagnosed so can't really draw any conclusions..
https://www.mangomannutrition.com/testimonials/
the rest all seem to be trainers or athletes or others who lose weight by following a WFPB way of eating but that's hardly surprising if they were eating SAD beforehand...
As well as from the constant prompts to "subscribe" I find this a bit surprising.. he makes claims but so far as I know has never published anything (unless I have missed it) there certainly doesn't appear any links to any publications from his site.
So does it work or not? Seems more like a leap of faith than say a Virta study.

Who knows? Many would argue low carb was a leap of faith until studies were put forward....

 

[NicoleC1971]

Just checked out the testimonials on Cyrus's page.
There is one from a Type 2 who has "dropped metphormin(sic) by half and insulin by half, and mostly I believe that within five more months of this, I will be completely off all medication."
And one Type 1 Who was newly diagnosed so can't really draw any conclusions..
https://www.mangomannutrition.com/testimonials/
the rest all seem to be trainers or athletes or others who lose weight by following a WFPB way of eating but that's hardly surprising if they were eating SAD beforehand...
As well as from the constant prompts to "subscribe" I find this a bit surprising.. he makes claims but so far as I know has never published anything (unless I have missed it) there certainly doesn't appear any links to any publications from his site.
So does it work or not? Seems more like a leap of faith than say a Virta study.[/QUO
As you say raw food veganism is not a proven way to treat type 1 . He has published some mice studies related to calorie restriction.
There is a video here in which he discusses his fantastic insulin sensitivity. He only injects 1 unit for 27 grams of carb (average is 1:10):

However he doesn't really discuss his diet prior to this so it is hard to assess why he chose veganism and raw veganism at that. I am sure he gets lots of micronutrients that many on the SAD do not get but personally I could not eat 6 bananas for lunch!

 

[evilclive]

people like Richard Bernstein and Ian Lake who point out the near impossibility of getting under 7s whilst eating higher carb (I am talking about Time in Range and not swinging from hypos to hyper then getting a mean average of under 7).

<waves> I'm doing the impossible. Libre + alarms makes it easier though.

 

[Alexandra100]

Who knows? Many would argue low carb was a leap of faith until studies were put forward....

If you are interested in a low carb vegan diet this woman is worth listening to: https://www.biohackerslab.com/ep48-dr-carrie-diulus/
I have listened to a few interviews with her. She does come across as non-fanatical. One of my objections to her regime is that it involves various hard-to-get, expensive protein sources and supplements. Definitely a diet for a well-paid American. I'll stick with Morrisson's free range chicken legs.

 

[LooperCat]

This woman is worth listening to: https://www.biohackerslab.com/ep48-dr-carrie-diulus/
I have listened to a few interviews with her. She does come across as non-fanatical. One of my objections to her regime is that it involves various hard-to-get, expensive protein sources and supplements. Definitely a diet for a well-paid American. I'll stick with Morrisson's free range chicken legs.

I often have to supplement protein, as I’m allergic to meat and dairy, and can’t always get enough fish and eggs down my neck. I use pea protein, as most cheap ones are made with milk whey - it can get quite expensive!

 

[Alexandra100]

I often have to supplement protein, as I’m allergic to meat and dairy, and can’t always get enough fish and eggs down my neck. I use pea protein, as most cheap ones are made with milk whey - it can get quite expensive!

I do sympathise. Given the limited range of the very low carb, I am always a little afraid I might develop an aversion to some of the foods I CAN eat. Fish and eggs in particular IMO one can easily have enough of.

 

[LooperCat]

I do sympathise. Given the limited range of the very low carb, I am always a little afraid I might develop an aversion to some of the foods I CAN eat. Fish and eggs in particular IMO one can easily have enough of.

I only developed these allergies a couple of years ago, and do worry that I might start to react to the fish and eggs. It’s a proper allergy, not just an intolerance, I get quite severe breathing difficulties if I have meat and cow’s milk. I’m convinced my immune system hates me, it’s even thrown up a reaction to my favourite hair dye

 

[Alexandra100]

I only developed these allergies a couple of years ago, and do worry that I might start to react to the fish and eggs. It’s a proper allergy, not just an intolerance, I get quite severe breathing difficulties if I have meat and cow’s milk. I’m convinced my immune system hates me, it’s even thrown up a reaction to my favourite hair dye

OMG!!! I have heard that given time away from the allergen, sometimes the allergic reaction weakens. Do you think this is true?