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Diabetes and sugar for exercise

Discussion in 'Diabetes Discussions' started by nichwan, Dec 18, 2017.

  1. nichwan

    nichwan Type 2 · Newbie

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    Good afternoon,



    I was diagnosed with diabetes type 2, around 2 and a half months ago with an A1C of 7.6. At the time i was 103.5kg and had a waist circumference of 114cm. I am 165cm tall and 30 years old. I live in Australia.
    I am now 73.9kg with a waist of 83cm.

    Since my diagnosis, I have followed a 300-600cal diet from a local dietitian with zero sugars (apart fron 1 small serve of fruit a day) and no carbs apart from 30-50g of complex carb containing food (ie 50g lettuce). My dietitian has advised me not to touch any form of processed sugar, any form of raw/white sugar containing foods or drinks, fruit juices, processed meats, honey, fruit apart from berries with low GI, meat or fish or protein items with any fat and zero simple carbs. I have also been instructed to only consume protein based foods 2 times a day - breakfast (1x boiled egg) and dinner (25-50g of extremely lean meats) or no meat at all. Fruits to be limited and if I can, zero them out too. I have also been advised not to use any flavourings for vegetables (i.e. salts, pepper, sauces etc, as they may have been processed). I can't have sweet potatos, nothing white including cauliflower, no onions, no garlic, no cinnamon etc. I am not to each cheeses, no milk (of any kind) and no tea or coffee (sweet or unsweetened)

    My meals are eggs for breakfast, a hand full of leaves (probably around 10g) for lunch and a very small (20-30g) piece of meat with 20g of leaves for dinner + 3 small strawberries for the day.


    I was on 2000mg of metformin per day and now have been on 1000mg for about 3 weeks.

    I do 50minutes of high intensity gym work at lunch for 6 days a week and 500-1000 situps each night for 7 days a week.

    For the last week, i have been feeling very nauseous and passed out 35minutes into my gym session today. I lost all vision, my left arm went really numb and tingly, I lost all hearing and then fainted for about 5-10 minutes in the locked change room

    I am really confused as I have read on multiple diabetes websites that I may need to carry around some fast digesting sugar/carbs in case I do pass out again. However, my dietitian has advised never ever to touch any form of sweet food again. I have also asked my work dietitian who has advised to cut out any root vegetables, cut out all protein and iron and calcium as well.

    I don't want to put weight back on and I don't want to reduce my exercise too much as I have been (up until the last week where I've been feeling nauseous) enjoying the feeling after my exercise.

    Can anyone please advise what I should do?


    Thank you very much,
     
  2. Matt61j

    Matt61j Type 2 · Newbie

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    I'n no expert, but my suggestion is to seek the advice of another dietitian - one who can tailor their recommendations to your specific needs. I cannot see how your food/calorie intake is enough to sustain your exercise regime - but like I say, I am not an expert so seek an expert's advice
     
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  3. Mark_1

    Mark_1 · Well-Known Member

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    The advice to carry sweets is for someone who is taking stronger meds than metformin like insulin which can cause your BG to go too low. The reduction in carbs is a good idea. The rest is way too restrictive. Have a look at dietdoctor for a diet that is sustainable. You have lost a lot of weight I would start adding more calories now to maintain this while staying off carbs.
     
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  4. Pinkorchid

    Pinkorchid Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Sounds like a strict diet but if it is working and you are happy with it then that's good. We can't really know what is making you feel like you are now as we are not experts and it would be wrong of us to try and guess As you have been ok up until now could it be that you have a virus that making you feel the way you are or maybe your blood glucose is dropping or going a bit high when you exercise best to see your medical advisors and discuss it with them
     
  5. Dr Snoddy

    Dr Snoddy Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Hi, this severe calorie restriction has done its job of rapidly reducing your weight and HbA1c. However, this is not a realistic diet for the future as it lacks both energy and nutrients. I find it difficult to believe that any dietician would recommend this as a permanent eating plan.
     
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  6. bulkbiker

    bulkbiker Type 2 · Master

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    Is your dietician qualified? Sounds more like a sadist to me.
    They have thrown every diet at you at once. Newcastle diet (Ultra low calorie)
    Low Carb (without the higher fat intake to keep you satiated and give you energy)
    Almost veggie (with hardly any protein)
    I'm not exactly surprised you feel like ****.
    Are you testing your blood sugar levels at all? Be interesting to know what they are like.

    For me I found a very low carb diet was easy to follow.
    Meat, fish, eggs, cheese, cream, butter some green veg (but not too much) and occasional berries with more cream for a dessert.
     
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  7. phoenix

    phoenix Type 1 · Expert

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    Is your dietitian or dietitians (you mention a work one in addition to the local one) actually accredited ? You can check here.
    https://daa.asn.au/find-an-apd/
    The diet you are using is obviously helping you to loose weight (at that calorie level anything should work) but it is patently not helping you to take part in exercise. It also seems to me as an unqualified onlooker that not only is it low in calories and devoid of flavour;that it is very low in other important nutrients. (+ advice on no iron,protein or calcium, was there any rationale given for this?) As others have said it does not seem sustainable.
     
  8. Pinkorchid

    Pinkorchid Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Do you intend to continue with the diet after you have reached your target weight. I still think you should see your doctor if you continue to feel nauseous and get advice from him/her if you should continue with what you are doing they are the ones to advise you
     
  9. Resurgam

    Resurgam Type 2 (in remission!) · Expert

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    If your dietician has not got modified versions of the diet to slow down weightloss and take you into a permanent menu which provides for your exercise as well as maintenance, then I suggest you don't bother going back and get hold of a copy of Dr Atkins New Diet Revolution which explains exactly what the steps are. It also includes foods such as cauliflower - which I have been eating all throughout the year since diagnosis. I can't see why it is excluded, nor onions, nor that well known folk remedy of cinnamon - herbs and spices have little carb value and make foods so much more interesting, and I suspect that eating only lean meats is playing havoc with the lipids in your body and brain - there are essential fats, and proteins, but not carbs.
    You describe your diet as zero sugars and no carbs and then list the sugary foods and say you eat lettuce - a low nutrient salad stuff, so I don't think that you are being given the best advice about what to eat, and why this regime is considered appropriate for you.
    It is not as though such extremely rapid weightloss and low calorie regime are essential to control diabetes, after all.
     
  10. Mbaker

    Mbaker Type 2 (in remission!) · Well-Known Member

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    This is horrific, your body has reacted in a sensible way and said enough is enough. I would re-introduce meat, fish, spices, cauliflower, broccoli (over ground vegetables in general), cinnamon, garlic, onions, eggs, mushrooms tea, coffee and similar. The stuff you see on here https://www.dietdoctor.com/low-carb and here http://www.diabetes.co.uk/keto/.

    Due to the savage nature of the regime you may put some weight back on, but it is important that you fuel your body correctly, which will allow you to continue your workouts.
     
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  11. nichwan

    nichwan Type 2 · Newbie

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    Thank you for the replies. My first dietitian is qualified and I think that at the time of her diet advice, the strictness was required to get my weight down. I don’t think either of us would have thought i would be down to this weight by now...

    The dietitian at work was more concerned about morals than my diebetes i think.

    Anyway, my actual dietitian and doctor are away for a month, and i will be going back to them for more advice after.

    However, in the mean time I guess my question really was do I carry fast acting sugars with me at gym just incase or do I go without and see what happens?

    Is consuming a handful of glucose based fast digesting foods for that one time in a few weeks that I really feel like I’m going to pass out worse for me than passing out and waking up sometime later?

    I guess I’m having a bit of a dilemma and don’t know which is better.

    Thank you very much again
     
  12. NewTD2

    NewTD2 Type 2 (in remission!) · Well-Known Member

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    This sounds very much like what I’ve been through mate. After I was diagnosed last September I was very much afraid to eat anything so I went for approx. 200 calorie diet for about 6 weeks until mid November this year.

    I was surviving on x2 boiled eggs, two small tomatoes and 2-3 leaves of lettuce and lots of water to survive. I just completely lost my appetite and also didn’t know anymore what to eat!

    As I was losing weight so rapidly (about 15 kg) in such a short period of time, I developed hyperphagia- “starving mode”, very nauseous, weak and could hardly walk that I had to call for the ambulance many times!

    Although I’ve now started reintroducing meals for breakfast, lunch and dinner including snacks, I’m still feeling very weak up to this point.

    I strongly suggest to do “low carb high fat diet” and eat normally, ignore your dietitian - doesn’t have a clue!

    High fat refers to healthy fats in meat, poultry, fish like salmon and other oily fishes like Mackerel, and from nuts like pecan, walnuts, almonds: also from avocados, butter, full fat cream, cheese, extra virgin olive oil on salads.

    Use only low glycemic “ above ground” vegetables like broccoli, cauliflower, red peppers, mushrooms, celery, spinach, cabbage etc.

    Avoid potatoes, bread, pasta, rice, white flour, wheat flour, cereals, noodles and starchy vegetables like sweetcorn, peas, carrots, parsnips, peanuts, squash.

    Also avoid honey, sweeteners except “Stevia” and fruits that are rich in fructose except berries (raspberries, strawberries, blueberries).

    I was stubborn at first and also very much confused about what food to eat but I was helped by so many good people on this site.

    Take supplements like Cinnamon 500 mg capsules as it lowers blood sugar levels, also some anti oxidants like Pomegranate extract 400 mg, Alpha Lipoic Acid to prevent nerve damage; COD liver oil for the heart and multivitamins specially Vitamin B12 as this is mainly depleted by Metformin!

    No more sugary fizzy drinks, avoid alcohol, fruit juices. I only drink plenty of water with sliced lemons!

    Join the low carb program-
    https://www.lowcarbprogram.com/

    Good luck mate!
     
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  13. JohnEGreen

    JohnEGreen Other · Expert

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    I think what comes to mind is malnutrition.
    And this comes from some one who followed a 600 to 800 calorie a day diet with 80 or less grams of carbs a day for approaching 2 years.
    The diet advised for you is far too austere. And for any one to advise cutting out protein is just mad, Protein is required if you wish to build muscle.

    I think you and you dietitian need to revise your regime urgently.

    The last time I came across some one on a diet that austere was in a hospital ward under strict medical; supervision.

    Apart from me that is who stupidly did it to myself I have lost over 8 and a half stone a big proportion of which was muscle mass and so far I have been unable to regain that.

    Best of luck John
     
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  14. first14808

    first14808 Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Get thee to a doctor, stat!

    I think your work needs a new dietician as those 'recommendations', combined with your exercise routine will potentially kill you. Especially if you're in a locked changing room where getting help will be delayed. Cutting all iron will lead to anemia, you're probably low in potassium, which will lead to hypokalemia and cutting calcium will cause hypocalcaemia.

    All of those are BAD, as in you're collapse could be indicative of heart complications due to your 'recommended' diet and workout really messing up your electrolytes.. And if left unchecked, can quickly lead to heart failure & death. So strongly suggest asking your doc for a full blood panel to check electrolytes, haem etc. Especially as diabetes can complicate those as well.
     
  15. nichwan

    nichwan Type 2 · Newbie

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    Thank you for your replies. I will be going back to my doctor and dietitian when they’re open again in 3 weeks.

    Is there anything I should be doing in the meantime?

    Thank you
     
  16. first14808

    first14808 Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    I'd really suggest not leaving it that long to get blood tests, especially if you're planning to carry on exercising. Also unless you've been given good reason not to, start taking multivitamins/minerals. They're low carb and will help fill in the stuff you're missing from your diet. You've done great shedding the weight, but continuing like that can do you serious harm, and the symptoms you described reflect that. Electrolyte hypos may also be more likely if you're sweating a lot during your exercise, and not replacing the minerals lost.

    I think the dietician's given you some bad advice, ie you need more protein and nutrients. Like you say, it may be based more on their morals/fads than your health.
     
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  17. sunnybouy77

    sunnybouy77 Type 2 · Active Member

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    R u passing out from low BP
     
  18. Mark_1

    Mark_1 · Well-Known Member

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    Eating proper food in the proper amounts would be my advice.
     
  19. first14808

    first14808 Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    It could be either way, ie hypo or hypertension. Or orthostatic hypotension, which is the light headed feeling if you stand up too fast. So bending over to put shoes on/tie laces could cause it.

    Bit that bothers me is the altered sensation in the arm that went with it. The diet seems inadequate for the level of exercise, or just basic nutrition. So without eating properly, the body can basically start cannibalising itself, so burn fat, then muscle.. and the heart's a muscle. I used to see this quite a lot when I was training hard, so people training without making sure their diet suited it. So if you want to bulk up & build muscle, it won't happen without eating enough protein. Same if it's speed or stamina training, so need to eat the right foods to help and avoid things like this, or cramps etc.

    And passing out in a locked room is also potentially very dangerous, so risk of fall injury or not being found & helped if it's something more serious.

    But I still think it needs a doctor to check out properly, and devise a more appropriate diet.
     
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  20. seadragon

    seadragon Prediabetes · Well-Known Member

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    Your diet sounds way too extreme. Of course you will lose weight but it doesn't sound like you are losing in a healthy way. Your body gets energy either from carbs (not a good idea when you are type 2), or from fats (which many of us here do in the form of a ketogenic or low carb, healthy fats diet).
    What you need to do is eat a diet that doesn't make you ill, not try to combat it's bad effects on your body by eating sugar ( the exact thing diabetics cannot metabolise properly). The only reason for having fast acting carbs/sugar is for Type 1 diabetics at risk of a hypos or for type 2's on the type of medication that can reduce blood sugar (gliclazides and the like) Metformin doesn't have this sort of effect on blood sugar.
    A very low carb, low fat and low calorie diet is starving your body and that can have it's own ill effects and this may well be what you are experiencing. You need protein to build muscle and muscle will help you burn calories. You need some fats as they contain essential nutrients. Nobody needs carbs but you do need something to fuel your body and brain.
    Be aware that many dieticians have been trained in the days of low fat being pushed as healthy and have to flow the 'official ' guidelines which sadly still seem to be low fat. There has been much research that shows this is not a good diet for diabetics.
    Some people have followed the very low calorie Newcastle diet but this really needs to be under close medical supervision.
    Have a read of the www.dietdoctor.com website as this has a lot of good info and links to the science behind it.
     
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