Diabetes cured

zand

Master
Messages
10,784
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Diet only
Still need to eat less calories than you burn to remove stored fat reserves with enough protein to not have muscle wastage.
Well yes, that's what I've been doing for 5 months. However it's also necessary to keep eating enough to keep the metabolism going. It's a fine balance. It's also harder for a woman as we need less calories, so there's less to cut back on.
 
A

AnnieC

Guest
It is documented elsewhere in other threads, but briefly
After Newcastle diet I ate fresh food, not processed. A lot of veg, fish, good quality meat, eggs, pulses, cheese, skimmed milk, low fat plain yogurt, small amounts of wholemeal bread, pasta rice, sweet potatoes, fruit, used olive oil for cooking, drank moderate alcohol sometimes.so yes, fairly low carb.

Have been fairly immobile for last two years, as I have long term disability, and needed 2 major operations, the last in January this year. Have been eating uncontrollably for a while due to, hospital food, other people catering for me because I could not do anything for myself for many months post surgery. Also, slipped up badly when challenged on forum to try high sugar foods a few months ago. I did, and have found it hard to stop. I have, thankfully, found great support and encouragement from posters in other threads, and have been exercising again in increasing increments since May. I am being cautious about defending my method of 'reversing' my diabetes because sadly, I have found there are so many people who take delight in trying to discredit that. I don't understand them. Nor do I try to discredit their methods. There are many different paths and we all make choices.
Well I don't understand why some people discredit you when you have done well whatever works for someone can only be good. You have had your problems as well but are back on track now Your diet sounds really good and more or less what I eat but without the pasta and rice so well done and I wish you well for the future
 

cold ethyl

Well-Known Member
Messages
3,210
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Diet only
Sounds like you are getting there. I expect those that do affect you are just fast into your system (chips generally aren't that high GL due to the oil) which you aren't used to handling. I have been through those experiments and came out hte other side but they are disconcerting. Keep going with the weight lose as that is far more rewarding than a few empty calories (unless you need them after a heavy exercise session).

Thanks- I intend to try things as and when I lose more weight. I will be working within a low carb framework forever I think as that is the only thing that has ever stopped my ravenous hunger( even when I was under 9st as a young woman, I could eat carbs for England). Some things like a baked potato with lashings of cheese and butter will be worth the carb and calorie bucks- a third rate donner kebab, less so!
 
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manicarrie

Well-Known Member
Messages
67
Type of diabetes
Type 1
Treatment type
Insulin
Something the dietician told me was that the heavier you were, the more the insulin had to work on, so yeah, if you lose weight, your insulin can work more effectively I would guess
 
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douglas99

Well-Known Member
Messages
4,572
Type of diabetes
I reversed my Type 2
Treatment type
Other
Master, as opposed to Divemaster, and I've done various things like Wreck and Night stuff. An advantage of spending time in a dive paradise. It was one of the downsides when we relocated two and a half years ago.....

Only Advanced Openwater so far, but also have dry suit and enriched air.
I'm done a wreck, and a night dive, the night dive was a whole new way to see fish, and octopuss.
As to dives, qualified in the UK december last year, and haven't got my dive log here, but if I remember correctly, 26 logged dives. Probably around 5 every other month or so.

Have you declared you're diabetic, and do you need to renew your certification each year?
 

cold ethyl

Well-Known Member
Messages
3,210
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Diet only
Off the back of this went away and started reading up on Prof Taylor.s work. Interesting lecture he gave in 2012 in which if I am reading him correctly he talks about personal fat thresholds being paramount and of pancreatic inhibition rather than loss as a factor driving tyoe 2 diabetes. So weight loss can be seen as putting us below the threshold and waking Sleeping Beauty ( pancreas- my analogy not his- he is far more scientific!) I think as well what came out of the article is that it is weight loss that matters and for some folk a short sharp effort with the possible reward of "reversal" has an effect that just telling them to,lose weight doesn't. I think that what is encouraging is that we can all do this through losing weight if we need to, or changing our diet to avoid carbs which the likes of Robert Lustig suggest cause the kind of metabolic difficulties that lead to the fatty lovers and pancreas that Taylor is on about, even in those of a normal BMI.

http://www.ncl.ac.uk/magres/research/diabetes/documents/BantingDiabeticMed.pdf
 
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Pipp

Moderator
Staff Member
Messages
10,622
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Tablets (oral)
@Pipp, sorry did not mean to offend !
@Enclave, you didn't! Unless I missed something.

Sorry if I said something to make anyone think that. I hope I haven't offended either.

Nothing on this thread has offended me.
 

Pipp

Moderator
Staff Member
Messages
10,622
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Tablets (oral)
Off the back of this went away and started reading up on Prof Taylor.s work. Interesting lecture he gave in 2012 in which if I am reading him correctly he talks about personal fat thresholds being paramount and of pancreatic inhibition rather than loss as a factor driving tyoe 2 diabetes. So weight loss can be seen as putting us below the threshold and waking Sleeping Beauty ( pancreas- my analogy not his- he is far more scientific!) I think as well what came out of the article is that it is weight loss that matters and for some folk a short sharp effort with the possible reward of "reversal" has an effect that just telling them to,lose weight doesn't. I think that what is encouraging is that we can all do this through losing weight if we need to, or changing our diet to avoid carbs which the likes of Robert Lustig suggest cause the kind of metabolic difficulties that lead to the fatty lovers and pancreas that Taylor is on about, even in those of a normal BMI.

http://www.ncl.ac.uk/magres/research/diabetes/documents/BantingDiabeticMed.pdf

Oh, wow! I am certainly a fatty lover! :hilarious::hilarious::hilarious: Must be my metabolic difficulties.

Thanks @cold ethyl
 
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AndBreathe

Master
Retired Moderator
Messages
11,321
Type of diabetes
I reversed my Type 2
Treatment type
Diet only
Only Advanced Openwater so far, but also have dry suit and enriched air.
I'm done a wreck, and a night dive, the night dive was a whole new way to see fish, and octopuss.
As to dives, qualified in the UK december last year, and haven't got my dive log here, but if I remember correctly, 26 logged dives. Probably around 5 every other month or so.

Have you declared you're diabetic, and do you need to renew your certification each year?

I haven't thus far, but these days we normally dive from our own boat, or the boats of friends. We are able to fill our own tanks, from a compressor on our boat, so most of our third party interventions are checking tanks etc. My OH his his Divemaster certificates up to date (he got it over 20 years ago, in another life), as he's insured to dive on our boats - to clear props and so on. Thankfully, he hasn't had to do that ........ yet.
 

cath99

Well-Known Member
Messages
619
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Diet only
Dislikes
rude d/n nurses and being treated like im wierd because im diabetic
i have lost 7 odd stone and all meds stopped dont seem to have issues with diabeties now altho no gp hasnt told me im diabetic free i live in hope x
 
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AndBreathe

Master
Retired Moderator
Messages
11,321
Type of diabetes
I reversed my Type 2
Treatment type
Diet only
i have lost 7 odd stone and all meds stopped dont seem to have issues with diabeties now altho no gp hasnt told me im diabetic free i live in hope x

Fabulous Cath. What's your diet like these days?
 

Pipp

Moderator
Staff Member
Messages
10,622
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Tablets (oral)
i have lost 7 odd stone and all meds stopped dont seem to have issues with diabeties now altho no gp hasnt told me im diabetic free i live in hope x
Something to aspire to, thank you.
Any chance you would keep on posting to inspire others.
 

douglas99

Well-Known Member
Messages
4,572
Type of diabetes
I reversed my Type 2
Treatment type
Other
.................. When I read of your carb-fests it concerns me, on that basis.

I take my hat off to those brave enough to push the envelope further than I have. Thus far, I have rarely been in a situation where could not eat, and I have spent most of my diagnosed life in third world countries, including on dive boats, and socialising with carb-loving Americans. That you find yourself "forced" to eat pot noodle or pasties when, by your own example, out diving is merely a lack of consideration for your own well-being. .....................

To re dress the balance somewhat.
Yes, I do eat pot noodles, and other types of food when I have to.
However, I've always posted what I've had on other days.
Today, apart from the ryvita at beakfast, lunch was two beef (no fillers) burgers, with mushrooms, shallots, tomato, fried in a small amount of rice bran oil.
I've been working, carpet laying and grouting the kitchen until 9pm, so dinner was (again stir fry, cabbage, leek, pepper, shallot, chorizo sausage, and a couple of spoonfuls of hot sauce, (2.4g carbs), and a can of Coors light.

The point I've always made, is if I don't eat carbs, I lose my ability to cope with them entirely.
So I'm fine eating them sensibly.
I wouldn't consider today a carb fest.
Possibly others fixate on the odd pot noodle, to the detriment and ignorance of my normal diet, and they may regard a structured approach to coming off my meds as a bad thing, but I don't.
I also fully intend to carry out a GTT, and see what happens.

edit - I will also confess I typed that while just thinking of a glass of red wine to follow.
 

douglas99

Well-Known Member
Messages
4,572
Type of diabetes
I reversed my Type 2
Treatment type
Other
I have to agree that I would not play at Russian roulette with medication to reduce carbs being a 'green light' to consume carbs in high volume.
My own fall into high rubbish carb consumption is, I believe, due to psychological cause. I foolishly allowed myself to be goaded into trying out junk carb food by some posters on this forum. It was a case of me wanting to prove doubters wrong. I believe some, not all, of the posters encouraging me knew what they were doing, and got pleasure in doing so. I am more cautious now.

I venture to ask, @douglas99, is your consumption of high carb foods a form of testing limits or even self- harm, as I believe mine was / is? (To anyone thinking of encouraging me to do that again, I am aware of it now, and won't be drawn in to your games).
Also, @douglas99, I do not understand why you would choose to do Newcastle diet at this point in your T2 control journey.

I've thought about this as well.
I've posted the food I eat, and respond much as above.
However, we (My NHS team and myself), do have a plan to reduce meds, based on HbA1c results. I'm throwing into the mix my response to carbs, and testing at the worst, not the best times for my results.
I'm also ensuring I can still respond to carbs if I need to.
Based on that, my meds are decreasing when we expect them to.
It would be easy for myself to simply, as you say, be 'goaded' into quitting earlier, but I not going to mess up my plan by accepting the challenge now.
Despite what is thought by some, it's not a willie waving contest, and I'm simply posting the good things that are happening to me, so I will wait, and I'm afraid you'll all have to wait with me.
So, no offence, I'm not out to prove anything to anyone, I'm simply telling you what I'm doing, and carrying on doing it.
If it works for me, fine, if it doesn't, at least I'll know it was my best shot, and I won't regret it.
 
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Brunneria

Guru
Retired Moderator
Messages
21,889
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Diet only
I would just like to interject a comment, following on from @cold ethyl 's reading about fatty livers.

I am sure that weight loss and defatting the liver is good for us all,
And it may reverse a lot of type 2s.
But it ain't gonna work on everyone.
Nothing does.
And there are more causes of type 2 than a fatty liver.

So while the hope of reversing is a brilliant motivator for weight loss, it should never be considered a promise.

We recently had a very unfortunate thread on here where some idiot consultant had told a patient to lose weight and cure themselves. Several months of near starvation, depression, malnutrition and misery later, blood glucose levels were still out of wack.
 
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douglas99

Well-Known Member
Messages
4,572
Type of diabetes
I reversed my Type 2
Treatment type
Other
I would just like to interject a comment, following on from @cold ethyl 's reading about fatty livers.

I am sure that weight loss and defatting the liver is good for us all,
And it may reverse a lot of type 2s.
But it ain't gonna work on everyone.
Nothing does.
And there are more causes of type 2 than a fatty liver.

So while the hope of reversing is a brilliant motivator for weight loss, it should never be considered a promise.

We recently had a very unfortunate thread on here where some idiot consultant had told a patient to lose weight and cure themselves. Several months of near starvation, depression, malnutrition and misery later, blood glucose levels were still out of wack.

The newcastle diet didn't cure all the participants.
But removing fat from the liver is always good.
I figure, at worse, even if it does nothing for me, I'll probably end up too thin, then I can eat lots of fat putting the weight back on.

I had a thought earlier.
(It's rare, but I do occasionally)

What diet do you want your god to give you.
Is it a low carb god?
A high fat god?
A donut god?
Actually, I think it's probably better to start a new thread, rather than take this one off track.
 

Pipp

Moderator
Staff Member
Messages
10,622
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Tablets (oral)
I've thought about this as well.
I've posted the food I eat, and respond much as above.
However, we (My NHS team and myself), do have a plan to reduce meds, based on HbA1c results. I'm throwing into the mix my response to carbs, and testing at the worst, not the best times for my results.
I'm also ensuring I can still respond to carbs if I need to.
Based on that, my meds are decreasing when we expect them to.
It would be easy for myself to simply, as you say, be 'goaded' into quitting earlier, but I not going to mess up my plan by accepting the challenge now.
Despite what is thought by some, it's not a willie waving contest, and I'm simply posting the good things that are happening to me, so I will wait, and I'm afraid you'll all have to wait with me.
So, no offence, I'm not out to prove anything to anyone, I'm simply telling you what I'm doing, and carrying on doing it.
If it works for me, fine, if it doesn't, at least I'll know it was my best shot, and I won't regret it.

That sounds to me like you have given much consideration to how you are managing your diabetes, then. I think people judge based on preconceived ideas of what is right and wrong way to manage our condition. However, it is easy to misunderstand and misinterpret when the emphasis is on eating what could be regarded as poor quality carbs and then claiming control whilst still on medication.

Perhaps the evidence of good control / reversal would be an ability to maintain over a long period, good BG control when on no medication. So it would seem @douglas99 is not yet there, yet well on the way, whilst I may have achieved some degree of success, but at risk of that success being eroded by falling into bad habit of carb overload. I take note and intend to address this asap.
 
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Pipp

Moderator
Staff Member
Messages
10,622
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Tablets (oral)
I would just like to interject a comment, following on from @cold ethyl 's reading about fatty livers.

I am sure that weight loss and defatting the liver is good for us all,
And it may reverse a lot of type 2s.
But it ain't gonna work on everyone.
Nothing does.
And there are more causes of type 2 than a fatty liver.

So while the hope of reversing is a brilliant motivator for weight loss, it should never be considered a promise.

We recently had a very unfortunate thread on here where some idiot consultant had told a patient to lose weight and cure themselves. Several months of near starvation, depression, malnutrition and misery later, blood glucose levels were still out of wack.
Of course reducing liver fat is good.

My reason for doing Newcastle diet was not initially weight loss, it was the thought that there was an opportunity to finally get control of BG. I have personal experience of close relatives with complications of uncontrolled T2. I do not want to inflict that one my loved ones.

I acknowledge that there is so much ignorance among health professionals. This usually results in them thinking that T2 is always progressive, and so dish out the healthy eating plate and Metformin etc as the only option. They do not generally seem to like it when a T2 patient presents an alternative. I would not advocate forcing T2s into following the Newcastle method, but I would give newly diagnosed the info to allow them to make their own choice on the matter. It is only 8 weeks out of their life in the first instance, then after a way of eating and living that is sustainable for life.
 
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