Diabetes cured

[douglas99]

Of course reducing liver fat is good.

My reason for doing Newcastle diet was not initially weight loss, it was the thought that there was an opportunity to finally get control of BG. I have personal experience of close relatives with complications of uncontrolled T2. I do not want to inflict that one my loved ones.

I acknowledge that there is so much ignorance among health professionals. This usually results in them thinking that T2 is always progressive, and so dish out the healthy eating plate and Metformin etc as the only option. They do not generally seem to like it when a T2 patient presents an alternative. I would not advocate forcing T2s into following the Newcastle method, but I would give newly diagnosed the info to allow them to make their own choice on the matter. It is only 8 weeks out of their life in the first instance, then after a way of eating and living that is sustainable for life.

Part of the problem is HCP see a majority of patients that don't respond to the diagnosis, so it is progressive. Not many even bother with the 'healthy eating plate' as a first step.
And I have to be fair to mine, she accepts what I do, (maybe it's a variation on the healthy eating plate she sees, so we're both in our comfort zones, but I don't think it's that similar)
Even if we don't agree on what we're doing, at least we're doing something, but sadly. we're the minority HCP's ever see.
The other thing to remember, my HCP has known me for years.
And no offence to others, as I'll put my hand up and be counted, but she had to have thought, 'I told the fat b*****d to lose weight for the last two decades, what's he going to do now?
It wouldn't have been a radical diet that would have been first in her mind.
Keep him alive in spite of himself, I would guess.
She's known me for twenty years, tablets, and god help him!

 

[runner2009]

I agree with others as there is no blanket definition of cure for diabetes just as there is no one type of diabetes for type 1 or type 2 there seems to be as many different permutations as there are people with the disease.

Simply speaking, depending on the number of dead, worn out or healthy beta cells one has makes a big difference in ever being cured. I don't think one can ever bring back dead beta cells or make new ones(?).

So if you have tons of weight to lose and you haven't killed off tons of beta cells, and you keep your BMI on the low side and reduce your carbs you could probably go into the non-diabetic range.

Also, I believe that a full 30% or more of the worlds population can not be healthy on the highly dense carbohydrate diet of the Western World. Some genetic groups like the Micronesians and Pima Indians have diabetics rates approaching 95% and many populations in China have very high rates of diabetes with relatively low BMIs

As for being cures to the pre-diabetic BG range in my mind is not cured. My reasoning is that being pre-diabetic is basically saying that your beta cells have been stressed and you are insulin resistant to some degree. If your BMIs are low and you are eating a low carb diet and exercising and you are now in the pre-diabetic range, that is not a cure but awesome BG control.

In my mind there is no real difference between pre-diabetes and diabetes as both require the same diets and perhaps it is just a continuum.

When it comes down to it, it seems to me that the genetic component is the important part of the whole process. The truth be told is that the for much of the history of mankind was about the search for enough food. Today the opposite is true and for many of us a diet of dense carbohydrates, lots of daily fructose and processed foods is not healthy for us.

 

[douglas99]

........................... The truth be told is that the for much of the history of mankind was about the search for enough food. Today the opposite is true and for many of us a diet of dense carbohydrates, lots of daily fructose and processed foods is not healthy for us.

The problem is population.
We're increasing exponentially.
There is no way to feed the population, without using carbohydrates.
Rice is a subsistence food in poorer countries.
That's just one extreme example.
Having enough food to feed a population means the state has to manufacture food, or we do indeed go back to the search for food, which at most times was very bloody.

 

[runner2009]

The problem is population.
We're increasing exponentially.
There is no way to feed the population, without using carbohydrates.
Rice is a subsistence food in poorer countries.
That's just one extreme example.
Having enough food to feed a population means the state has to manufacture food, or we do indeed go back to the search for food, which at most times was very bloody.

I agree with you 100%. A prime example of what you speak about is the history of the Gold Coast in Africa. The population didn't grow until Muslim traders brought Yams from the new world. By planting and eating yams as a diet staple dramatically improved their lives.

But my point is that a diet high in rice and yams is a far cry from the heavy processed foods that our are main staples in the Western world today. One also in my opinion needs to recognize that no mater how much we love them that both bread and pasta are a processed food and that in the portion of the population that I am speaking of equal amounts of calories in pasta and bread as in yams and rice affect their BG dramatically different.

 

[douglas99]

Processed food doesn't need to be loved.
People eat it to survive.
It's very easy to make a choice in a minority, but what happens when you do convince 64 million people to give up cheap processed, easily obtainable food, and leave it on the shelf?

Soylent Green comes into it's own then.
We are faced with a choice to feed the population we have, personally, it's not a decision I'd like to be making.
No way can you win.

 

[JTL]

The problem is population.
We're increasing exponentially.
There is no way to feed the population, without using carbohydrates.
Rice is a subsistence food in poorer countries.
That's just one extreme example.
Having enough food to feed a population means the state has to manufacture food, or we do indeed go back to the search for food, which at most times was very bloody.

I can't agree with that Doug.
For starters the state doesn't manufacture food because they have too or for any other reason.
Food is adulterated processed packaged shipped stored sold the way it is purely from a profit point of view with health coming second to that if coming into the equation at all.
The food industry is worth trillions ... a captive audience so to speak.
It can be incredibly corrupt so health is rarely a priority.
Money rules the food industry.
The food industry is no longer just about agriculture cooking and presentation ... science and factory production industrialisation shipping freezing transportation oil pharma chem even coal are also big players as are banks banking and share holders.
The planet produces enough food to give everyone on sixteen planet earths a healthy living with spare capacity to grow more.
Our monetary system our greed and our waste are the main problems not governments.
Not forgetting education.

 

[douglas99]

Nope.
The state keeps everyone alive, whether you believe it or not.
Sadly, not everyone is as well off, or has the time, to manage food as well as we do .

(As to produce food, yet it does, and again, as you say, 'grow' rice and grain, sadly, not grass fed beef)

 

[JTL]

Nope.
The state keeps everyone alive, whether you believe it or not.
Sadly, not everyone is as well off, or has the time, to manage food as well as we do .

(As to produce food, yet it does, and again, rice and grain, sadly, not grass fed beef)

I live in the middle of a farming community ... no government farms or processing plants.

 

[douglas99]

I live in the middle of a farming community ... no government farms or processing plants.

I live with lemmings. So, what does your community produce?

 

[JTL]

Rice and grains are perfectly healthy foods for millions.
Were for me until recently.
They aren't some sub standard last choice.
When you feed animals stuff you shouldn't ... from a profit point of view not a health a nd welfare one you'll get problems.
Rice and grains are being processed for profit ... the processing may well make them sub standard.

 

[JTL]

I live with lemmings. So, what does your community produce?

You need to move to a better area maybe ... living with lemmings could prove deadly!

 

[douglas99]

So, your diet of choice would be rice and grain?
As you say, perfectly healthy choice?

 

[JTL]

So, your diet of choice would be rice and grain?
As you say, perfectly healthy choice?

It was a perfectly healthy choice for generations before me.
With some pig and cow etc etc ... not sure what you're trying to say.

 

[douglas99]

Not sure what you are saying?
Everyone should dump cheap food, and feed the family beef, pork etc, every meal?
All 64 million of us?
Whether you can pay the rent or not, buy steaks or chops?
Maybe you can, what's your plan for others?

 

[JTL]

Not sure what you are saying?
Everyone should dump cheap food, and feed the family beef, pork etc, every meal?
All 64 million of us?
Whether you can pay the rent or not, buy steaks or chops?
Maybe you can, what's your plan for others?

I'm really not saying any such thing.
I think you're spoiling for a fight and nothing more.
By the way ... not everyone is eating cheap food.

 

[JTL]

I really have no idea what your point is or why you are reading things into my posts that aren't there.
Maybe you should check your bloods?
You're not making a lot of sense with this government feeding us stuff and cheap food ditch the rice cos it's rubbish can't afford anything else but rubbish rice and grains are all rubbish ... see you're really not making a lot of sense.

 

[douglas99]

I'm really not saying any such thing.
I think you're spoiling for a fight and nothing more.
By the way ... not everyone is eating cheap food.

Nope, they're not.
I'm not, because I can afford no to.
And I'm very grateful for it.
And my kids are grateful I grafted, and made them graft.

As to the happy picture of yesterday.
Bread and dripping.
Wonderful.
Only because the father got the meat, and everyone else got the dripping that came off the meat.
They lived off bread, with a bit of fat off the joint.
My parents, 1 out of three of their siblings died before they got to ten.
My wife's parents, 2 out of 5 died.

Cheap food may well have kept them alive.
B***er all food killed them.

 

[douglas99]

..........................Maybe you should check your bloods?.........................

Easy answer for someone who can't actually accept others aren't as privileged as them?
You're poor because you're lazy?

 

[Pipp]

Ah. Now I understand this has degenerated to willy waving again.

 

[JTL]

Easy answer for someone who can't actually accept others aren't as privileged as them?
You're poor because you're lazy?

Why are you being so aggressive and presuming you know anything about how I live?