Diabetes snobbery

[Mick1959]

Hi

I want to vent my spleen so to speak and ask how many others have experienced Diabetes snobbery.

I know not everyone is like this, but last night, with friends - in of all places a pub, while subject of my diabetes come up, as I was drinking a very nice single malt (rare for me to drink anyway).

When one of the groups invited friend piped up that that my Type 2 was self induced, and T2's have only themselves to blame, where her type 1 was worse than Type 2's and proceeded to regale us with her history and ailments.

Now I have no interest in point scoring, so kept quiet, excused myself earlier than I normally would, and went home, where I stewed on the fact that there is some gulf that; either there needs some bridging between the types so each understands the other, or I just found the one person who has to feel superior in my area.

As I was only diagnosed in February 2018, I found the experience somewhat amusing, but perplexing, which has me wondering is this something that will rear its ugly head often

 

[Fairygodmother]

I think we need different names for T1 and T2, so that this kind of oneupmanship doesn’t happen, and a more responsible approach from the media who label everyone with T2 as self-indulgent pigs. (I like pigs so maybe that’s unfair).
We also need greater government action to tackle the food manufacturers that ensure high sugar, high bad fat, easy-eat food flies off the shelves.

 

[LooperCat]

They two need different names because they are totally different conditions - a comparing a dead pancreas to insulin resistance makes as much sense as comparing breast cancer to lung cancer. They may have some similar symptoms if untreated (hyperglycaemia) and similar treatments, but they cannot be compared. It’s not a competition.

 

[Brunneria]

There are tactless, insensitive, ignorant people everywhere. And some of them get ill. And some of them get diabetes.

I see people at work claiming that they work harder, suffer more, and are less appreciated than other people who who feel exactly the same. Happens the world over.

I mean, everyone thinks that their pain deserves special recognition, don't they? I think we are all guilty of that at times. Especially me

 

[AdamJames]

There's no debate, really. T2 is superior to T1. It's simple maths. 2 is greater than 1 any day of the week.

 

[Sue192]

....and a more responsible approach from the media who label everyone with T2 as self-indulgent pigs. (I like pigs so maybe that’s unfair).

I think that's the biggest cause of situations like the one @Mick1959 found himself in, and I really don't know how that is going to change. For instance, catching up on a Wallander episode the other night: Wallander: 'I have diabetes'. Female character: 'but you're not fat!' Made me uncharacteristically angry.

 

[AdamJames]

They two need different names because they are totally different conditions - a comparing a dead pancreas to insulin resistance makes as much sense as comparing breast cancer to lung cancer. They may have some similar symptoms if untreated (hyperglycaemia) and similar treatments, but they cannot be compared. It’s not a competition.

But seriously I do actually agree with that to some extent. Though T2s can end up in a very similar state to T1s, needing insulin, and as far as I'm aware T2 is not always insulin resistance, it can be under-production of insulin.

Naming them is a tough call I think. We could either say that there are so many 'types' of diabetes that we may as well keep the name the same but number them, or think of different names. Given the name originates from having sugar in the urine, that's an argument for keeping the name the same as that can easily happen in all cases, I would think? Oh, I don't know.

 

[AdamJames]

I think that's the biggest cause of situations like the one @Mick1959 found himself in, and I really don't know how that is going to change. For instance, catching up on a Wallander episode the other night: Wallander: 'I have diabetes'. Female character: 'but you're not fat!' Made me uncharacteristically angry.

I think that's the nub of the problem - people's ignorance.

I can understand someone with T1 getting fed up being associated with the stigma of T2, just as much as I can understand someone with T2 getting fed up being associated with the stigma of T2 when they've lived a far healthier lifestyle than the lazy-minded judgemental people who propagate the stigma.

One thing is for sure, judgemental people always reveal how very poor they are at actually judging, and how little they know about the subjects on which they cast judgement.

 

[Engineer88]

There's no debate, really. T2 is superior to T1. It's simple maths. 2 is greater than 1 any day of the week.

Double in fact.

At the end of the day there are 5 types of diabetes currently known I believe? maybe more.

I know as a t1 diagnosed very young I feel its b****y unfair and sometimes I get angry especially at those who overeat (and only those who over eat and know better- I am not including other T2 people) and cause D themselves. Maybe that's where she was coming from?

[Moderator edit for language.]

 

[ziggy_w]

Hi @Mick1959,

First of all hugs from me. No one should have to go through what you had to listen to.

I'm not sure it is necessarily a matter of one-upmanship, but one of society at large. The other day, I followed a link to an older article in the New York Times. The article reported that about 15% to 20% of T2s are normal body weight. One of the readers' responses was that definitely those normal-weight T2s must have been misdiagnosed and if they were subjected to an antibody test, they would all turn out to be T1s. Mind you, this reader seemed to know quite a lot about diabetes -- but rather than change his thinking about T2s, he rather assumed that the medical professionals had misdiagnosed all these people. (I guess he never heard about the large number of Pakistanis and Indians being diagnosed with T2 and normal body weight.)

Anyway, I find there is quite convincing evidence that weight increase and lower activity levels are the result of insulin resistance rather than vice versa. This also makes sense to me on a logical level. Having insulin resistance and high insulin levels simultaneously will very likely lead to increasing hunger and lower energy levels. On the one hand due to the insulin resistance, insulin can't push enough glucose into the cells and your cells are "semi-starved" thus we experience hunger and lack of energy. On the other hand high insulin, doesn't allow us to access our fat stores and thus we have problems losing weight and also have a harder time using stored fat to make up for the lack of energy from glucose.

The problem though is that insulin resistance and high insulin levels exist maybe a decade before blood glucose levels rise significantly, so the weight gains precedes the diagnosis of T2 leading medical professionals and many researchers to think that it is the weight that causes T2. Maybe, this thinking will change once we start measuring circulating insulin levels and not only blood glucose levels.

Personally, I don't blame myself for my T2 diabetes. Definitely changing my lifestyle improved it, so it is certainly lifestyle-related. The issue though is that the lifestyle that causes it, is the one recommended by official bodies. So, can we be blamed for not knowing any better? I used to drink loads of fruit juice thinking it was healty. Now, I understand that this is probably one of the worst things we can do not only because of the glucose it contains, but also because the high levels of fructose and lack of fiber which lead to fatty liver. Also, I used to enjoy bread very much, which is also a no-no for me now.

Anyway, it will take a change of paradigm in thinking about T2 to change these prejudices -- and maybe some will never accept that insulin resistance is the root cause of T2 and not sloth and gluttony.

 

[bulkbiker]

especially at those who overeat and cause D themselves

But aren't you just perpetuating the myth... if obesity is a symptom of Type 2 rather than the cause (due to insulin resistance and fat storage) then its not really to do with over eating..more a hormonal imbalance. I must admit I find your comment a tad disappointing.

 

[AdamJames]

Double in fact.

At the end of the day there are 5 types of diabetes currently known I believe? maybe more.

I know as a t1 diagnosed very young I feel its bloody unfair and sometimes I get angry especially at those who overeat and cause D themselves. Maybe that's where she was coming from?

It's entirely human for anyone to think like that. I also feel a bit exasperated with people with T2 who don't seem to be willing to take action to try to help deal with it through lifestyle change.

But it's very, very difficult to cast judgement without getting your eye wiped.

We see that very athletic people - i.e. athletes - get T2. And scientific studies show that simply by changing the time of day that you eat, you can either lose weight or gain weight. Should we judge people poorly because they eat at the wrong time of day? Did they 'choose' to 'bring about' their medical problems?

Same with type of food - it's not all about calories. And even if we can say Person A is fat and eats 5,000 calories a day and Person B is thin and eats 2,000 calories a day - how do we measure the extent to which those people are 'exercising willpower' or 'satisfying the same levels of hunger'? With what we know about hunger and hormones, does anyone feel confident in saying that Person A is doing something morally wrong and Person B is morally superior? Is Person B having to make a lot of effort to eat less food than they want, but Person A isn't?

It's a minefield, and a very unfortunate one.

One thing we all share is that we have metabolic disorders, and on top of having to deal with that, we have to deal with judgemental people. We also share the problem of self control: T1s and T2s have both posted many threads in this forum talking about regret at not 'keeping on top of things'.

 

[Mick1959]

Hi

Thanks for the comments, which I have found interesting,.

In my personal opinion, a person who chooses to ignorant will always remain ignorant and not open to another opinion or view.

The lady in question did generalise that T2's over eat, lacked exercise and a host of other issues, but also lumped me personally with all the traits too, interfering I was my own harbinger of doom as a T2. (despite my T2 appearing following a serious illness)

I had the impression that she felt T2's give diabetes a bad name and T1's should be on a pedestal an not associate with T2's.

Perhaps some incident caused her opinion, I have no idea, but her reaction and outpouring was not what I expected

 

[Resurgam]

Double in fact.

At the end of the day there are 5 types of diabetes currently known I believe? maybe more.

I know as a t1 diagnosed very young I feel its bloody unfair and sometimes I get angry especially at those who overeat and cause D themselves. Maybe that's where she was coming from?

Even you think that diabetes is caused by over eating?
Many diabetics - I'm one - have been dieting on doctor supervised low calorie diets with high carb content for years - constantly told they are doing it wrong/lying about compliance/a fat pig - because the diet did not work. Oh - and idle too because they obviously don't exercise at all.
I don't get angry - but I could weep sometimes.

 

[JoKalsbeek]

I get badmouthed by a fellow T2 because of my diet. She stuffs her (skinny) face with birthdaycake and is overcome with surprise if her bloodsugars skyrocket, but makes fun of me for sticking with a handfull of walnuts at the same party. Humiliating me is her idea of a good time. I don't think it's a Type 1/2 thing per se, although the media isn't helping...
It's more of a *can't say it like it is because cussing's not allowed* thing. People will always be like that, unfortunately. Even in the same diabetic group, some of us just want to "win", somehow... So it's not somuch the illness, but the mindset of a person who's just being a b....uttercup. (She was one before she got type 2, actually. It just got worse. These days I tend to dodge birthdays when I know she'll be there. I'm tired of crying in the car on my way home).

 

[Resurgam]

I get badmouthed by a fellow T2 because of my diet. She stuffs her (skinny) face with birthdaycake and is overcome with surprise if her bloodsugars skyrocket, but makes fun of me for sticking with a handfull of walnuts at the same party. Humiliating me is her idea of a good time. I don't think it's a Type 1/2 thing per se, although the media isn't helping...
It's more of a *can't say it like it is because cussing's not allowed* thing. People will always be like that, unfortunately. Even in the same diabetic group, some of us just want to "win", somehow... So it's not somuch the illness, but the mindset of a person who's just being a b....uttercup. (She was one before she got type 2, actually. It just got worse. These days I tend to dodge birthdays when I know she'll be there. I'm tired of crying in the car on my way home).

You should be congratulating yourself - if you don't then I will - because you are the one who is in control and will most likely stay that way so well done and long may it continue - you are a winner both when leaving the party and next day when you'll not have taken one more step on a downward spiral of worsening illness and complications.

 

[NicoleC1971]

Hi

I want to vent my spleen so to speak and ask how many others have experienced Diabetes snobbery.

I know not everyone is like this, but last night, with friends - in of all places a pub, while subject of my diabetes come up, as I was drinking a very nice single malt (rare for me to drink anyway).

When one of the groups invited friend piped up that that my Type 2 was self induced, and T2's have only themselves to blame, where her type 1 was worse than Type 2's and proceeded to regale us with her history and ailments.

Now I have no interest in point scoring, so kept quiet, excused myself earlier than I normally would, and went home, where I stewed on the fact that there is some gulf that; either there needs some bridging between the types so each understands the other, or I just found the one person who has to feel superior in my area.

As I was only diagnosed in February 2018, I found the experience somewhat amusing, but perplexing, which has me wondering is this something that will rear its ugly head often

I did refer to myself (type 1) as having the morally superior type of diabetes! Sorry because now I have a professional interest in type 2 and volunteer for a diabetes charity I have gotten clued up and know that its not just about being a Walking Deficient Doughnut muncher (Sloth and Gluttony in biblical terms). If you do the maths on the number of slimish and acitvish people who get diabetes or other metabolic disease versus the number of those who are obese and get the same, the absolute numbers will not be far apart (80% of the obese population versus 40% of the normal weight people). And the obesity is a symptom of becoming a diabetic remembering that 20% of the obese do not get metabolic problems like this.
I think carbo intoleratnt for type 2 would be more accurate. In another thread type 1 was Beta Cells B'd!

 

[Engineer88]

In reply to @bulkbiker @AdamJames and @Resurgam I did say those who overeat - I didn't say those who have genetic components or various other ailments that make them become type 2. I was specifically thinking of my mother who thinks nothing of eating *8* ice lollys in an evening as well as dinner crisps and chocolate. She does have a number of other problems which are outside her control. There is no genetic component (my type 1 came from my dad) but when the dr told her he thought she had diabetes came crying to me. That I have 0 sympathy for.

 

[Mick1959]

@NicoleC1971 - your comment of 'Walking Deficient Doughnut Muncher' was very much in line with the opinion I was getting, and I just love that phrase so in moments of levity, that I will use as a retort in future in response to 'well why' - 'because some people think I am Walking Deficient Doughnut Muncher, a WDDM'

 

[Hiitsme]

I really feel for the Type 1's. They have to learn to manage their diabetes and that is all day every day for the rest of their lives. Some Type 2's are able with lifestyle changes to bring their condition under control without medication - this is not possible at this time for Type 1's. I only test to check how I'm doing whilst Type 1's need to check in order to manage how much insulin is needed etc.