Diabetics are carb intolerant

[zand]

The following member( who is type 1 and follows a LCHF diet) found that their insulin usage went down when they changed the type of fat in their diet:

http://www.diabetes.co.uk/forum/threads/saturated-fats.48599/#p438010

Thanks for this noblehead. Although I am type 2 it's of interest to me because I am insulin resistant and I'm also a bit inquisitive by nature so I like reading what type 1's say too.

 

[Spiker]

I'm not too sure, however this is how Scheiner explains how a high fat meals causes insulin resistance:

So what about after the carbohydrates are finished doing their thing? That's when the fat itself begins to exert its effects. The process goes something like this:

1. You eat a high-fat meal or snack (this is the fun part).
2. In a few hours, the fat begins to digest; this continues for several hours.
3. The level of fat in the bloodstream (triglycerides) rises.
4. High triglycerides in the bloodstream cause the liver to become resistant to insulin.
5. When the liver is insulin resistant, it produces and secretes more glucose than usual.
6. The blood glucose rises steadily as the livers glucose output goes up.

This is what causes the gradual, delayed blood glucose rise after consumption of large amounts of fat. The response seems to be dose-dependent the more fat you consume, the more insulin resistant the liver becomes, and the more glucose it produces. The type of fat also appears to play a role. Saturated fats (the type found in dairy and animal products) seem to cause more insulin resistance than monounsaturated and polyunsaturated fats (the type found in vegetable products).

But we have been here before with this discussion Dillinger, didn't your consultant think that your insulin resistance was down to your LCHF diet?

So in summary raised blood lipids cause temporary higher basal requirements?

Sent from the Diabetes Forum App

 

[Spiker]

So in summary raised blood lipids cause temporary higher basal requirements?

Sent from the Diabetes Forum App

Or alternatively you could describe it as a mini liver dump triggered by dietary fat ?

Sent from the Diabetes Forum App

 

[Spiker]

1. High triglycerides in the bloodstream cause the liver to become resistant to insulin.
2. When the liver is insulin resistant, it produces and secretes more glucose than usual.

Many thanks noblehead, this is really interesting. I'm trying to get my head around it.

Can anyone explain better how the two above mechanisms work ? Unfortunately the term "insulin resistance" is always a bit vague as it refers to an effect rather than a cause, and there is more than one mechanism for insulin resistance .

Sent from the Diabetes Forum App

 

[Bebo321]

Looks like they used an 18 hour glucose clamp so it's a real increase in insulin requirement and not just a time shift. But yes it's the "pizza effect" of fat plus carbs. I don't ever get this effect from fat on LCHF. I hate how these studies just take high carb as a given rather than controlling it properly as a variable. It's scientifically sophomoric.

High blood lipids cause immediate but transient "insulin resistance" in non diabetics and T2 by suppressing beta cell activity. I wonder what the mechanism is in T1?

Scary that Joslin are using this explicitly to argue for low fat diets when it actually argues more strongly for a low carb diet.

I wish they would give a link to the actual paper but from the write up the study was not isocaloric ?

Sent from the Diabetes Forum App

Okay, a challenge for all those of us who just had to refer to the dictionary. Try to include the word sophomoric in a conversation today!
I feel more intelligent already!

 

[noblehead]

Thanks for this noblehead. Although I am type 2 it's of interest to me because I am insulin resistant and I'm also a bit inquisitive by nature so I like reading what type 1's say too.

Nothing wrong with being inquisitive, I'm sure with your recent and continues weight loss this will improve matters for you Zand, good luck!!!!

 

[Totto]

I don't get this with fat causing insulin resistance, possibly through high triglycerides.

When I eat carbs my bg will go up, how high depending on many different factors (small helping of rise will give me 12-15mml). When I eat fat and no carbs, my bg doesn't move at all (like bacon, eggs and butter). When I eat some carbs and a lot of fat my bg might go up 1-2mml but goes down again. I am not insulin resistant so far as I know though, and had low triglycerides when tested.

So please explain to me how this works. How come I supposedly get insulin resistance without any rise in bg?

 

[jentp188]

Saw a post on the DCUK facebook page today, and thought it was quite interesting:


I just wanted to ask what people think of Carol - I think she's right... although I had a smile when I read it!

personally i think its true as your body uses insulin to break down carbs ect then when your type one u no longer have the natural ability to break down the carbs ect so you body is technically unable to tolerate carbs without injection

 

[paul-1976]

personally i think its true as your body uses insulin to break down carbs ect then when your type one u no longer have the natural ability to break down the carbs ect so you body is technically unable to tolerate carbs without injection

EXACTLY!!

 

[mrman]

personally i think its true as your body uses insulin to break down carbs ect then when your type one u no longer have the natural ability to break down the carbs ect so you body is technically unable to tolerate carbs without injection

If the body couldn't break down the carbs we wouldn't need to insulate for them. Its the fact our bodies can break them down that raises our levels.

Hiding now

Type 1, pumping nova rapid

 

[paul-1976]

If the body couldn't break down the carbs we wouldn't need to insulate for them. Its the fact our bodies can break them down that raises our levels.

Hiding now

Type 1, pumping nova rapid

Which means that if our body breaks them down successfully but cannot unlock our cells to allow glucose molecules into them via our own natural endocrine system then by that definition we're intolerant of carbs.

 

[CollieBoy]

Visions of a throng of T2s:
First One : I am Sparticus and I'm Carb Intolerant!
Next one: No! I am Sparticus and I'm Carb Intolerant!
Third one: No! I am Sparticus and I'm Carb Intolerant!
and so on , ad infinitum

 

[paul-1976]

"2 men say they're Jesus-one of them must be wrong"

 

[notafanofsugar]

I agree with you @jentp188

 

[notafanofsugar]

PS. I'd love to know who abstained and why! x

 

[this is too difficult]

PS. I'd love to know who abstained and why! x

I did not vote at all because I have no Idea. I feel as if I am glucose intolerant.
My body seems to do what it is supposed with the carbs then struggles with the glucose.

 

[Spiker]

If the body couldn't break down the carbs we wouldn't need to insulate for them. Its the fact our bodies can break them down that raises our levels.

Hiding now

Type 1, pumping nova rapid

Er the topic of the thread isn't "Can diabetics *digest* carbs ?"

Sent from the Diabetes Forum App

 

[Spiker]

PS. I'd love to know who abstained and why! x

I'm one of two abstainers I think and we both posted explaining our reason why, which is we don't agree with the word "just" in the topic question.

 

[this is too difficult]

Er the topic of the thread isn't "Can diabetics *digest* carbs ?"

Sent from the Diabetes Forum App

It is not cant they either.

 

[Spiker]

It is not cant they either.

Correct. It's not about digestion of carbs. It's not even strictly about whether we can utilise carbs. It's about whether ingesting carbs has adverse effects.

Sent from the Diabetes Forum App