Diabetics are carb intolerant

Indy51 · May 20, 2014

Spiker said:
Many thanks noblehead, this is really interesting. I'm trying to get my head around it.

Can anyone explain better how the two above mechanisms work ? Unfortunately the term "insulin resistance" is always a bit vague as it refers to an effect rather than a cause, and there is more than one mechanism for insulin resistance .

Sent from the Diabetes Forum App

Edited to add another post I missed from the above list:
http://high-fat-nutrition.blogspot....siological insulin restisance (8) Guess what?

zand · May 20, 2014

Indy51 said:
I wouldn't even attempt to explain it as the science goes 'whoosh', right over my head, but if you haven't already seen Peter Hyperlipid's series of posts about physiological insulin resistance, they can be found here:

http://high-fat-nutrition.blogspot.co.uk/search/label/Physiological insulin resistance (1)
http://high-fat-nutrition.blogspot.co.uk/search/label/Physiological insulin resistance (2); Dawn Phenomenon
http://high-fat-nutrition.blogspot.co.uk/search/label/Physiological insulin resistance (3); Clarification of FBG
http://high-fat-nutrition.blogspot.co.uk/search/label/Physiological insulin resistance (4); Alzheimers
http://high-fat-nutrition.blogspot.co.uk/search/label/Physiological insulin resistance (5) The wild type mice
http://high-fat-nutrition.blogspot.co.uk/search/label/Physiological insulin resistance (6) The Terminator
http://high-fat-nutrition.blogspot.co.uk/search/label/Physiological insulin resistance (7) and palmitic acid again
http://high-fat-nutrition.blogspot.co.uk/search/label/Physiological insulin resistance (8) Chewing the FAT
http://high-fat-nutrition.blogspot.co.uk/search/label/Physiological insulin resistance (9) Dolphins

I keep promising myself that one day I'll try to read and understand them...

Edited to add another post I missed from the above list:
http://high-fat-nutrition.blogspot.co.uk/search/label/Physiological insulin restisance (8) Guess what?

Oh Indy I would really love to read all of those, but just don't have the time right now......maybe one day

jentp188 · May 20, 2014

Spiker said:
It's a smart simplification, and refreshingly simple. Diabetics are carb intolerant. They either tolerate carbs poorly (Type 2) or not at all (Type 1). It is a refreshingly plain and simple way of describing the disease. It's also the correct definition of diabetes. It's the only thing that Type 1 and Type 2 have in common really. Otherwise the etiology of both is very different.

Sent from the Diabetes Forum App

i agree tho without insulin u cannot handle carbs so there for we ave intolerance to them (type1) i no from personal experience if i ate a plate of chips and didn't do my insulin ide run hi and feel sick

jentp188 · May 20, 2014

AlexMBrennan said:
It boggles my mind how you could possibly think the type 1 diabetes could be described as "doesn't tolerate carbs" - without insulin, you die just as quickly if you don't eat anything.

so basically ure just not reading or understanding what is being said you would die if you ate carbs without insulin because ure body cannot use them efficiently so beng a type 1 if u didn't inject u wouldn't be able to handle the carbs and if over time u did this ure body organs would start to **** down and I would die slowly and painfully if left untreated

Lesley andrews · May 20, 2014

Scardoc said:
It's the chicken and egg question then. Are you carb intolerant because you have diabetes? Or do you have diabetes because you are carb intolerant?

If it's the former then surely the message needs to sent before the horse has bolted regarding lifestyle choices.

Diabetics are better off not eating carbs, I know my sugars are brilliant now

sanchia07 · May 20, 2014

The definition of Intolerant = An inability to eat a food or take a drug without adverse effects, so in very basic simple terms its part of the illness, however not the whole story and its a little more complicated than just that sweeping statement.

paul-1976 · May 20, 2014

sanchia07 said:
The definition of Intolerant = An inability to eat a food or take a drug without adverse effects, so in very basic simple terms its part of the illness, however not the whole story and its a little more complicated than just that sweeping statement.

I know what you're saying but no matter what the root cause of the condition was,be it autoimmune or otherwise,the upshot is that we're left intolerant of carbohydrates per se despite some patients being able to counteract the large BG spikes with injected synthetic insulin.
For a type 2 with major insulin resistance there is no 'Get out of jail free card' and major carb restriction is the only answer and for me as a type 1.5-carbohydrates being restricted to my current level has allowed me to keep my insulin therapy to a minimum.

lilyfleur · May 21, 2014

runner2009 said:
LilyFleur

Thank you for mentioning Robert Lustig. I actually never heard of him and just listened to a 90 minute video about Sucrose.

Sent from the Diabetes Forum App

No problem, though I should give credit where it's due- cold ethyl mentioned him first haha I just had to add that he's brilliant because I watched the same video a few months back and thought it was fantastic, I never would've dreamed anyone could talk me through the biochemistry behind metabolism in a way I could understand. He's an excellent speaker and I think is pretty spot on in his views of sugar. It's funny that the "debate" around sugar is similar to the one on here though- on one hand you have people that think of insulin as being a bit of a poison (myself included). On the other hand you have people that think calling it a poison is too simplistic and risks giving people the [wrong] impression that diabetics should ALWAYS be deprived of carbs (in the sugar debate this side of the argument is people who believe that if you tell people sugar is a poison, you make room for a market which will target that fear- telling people to buy their low sugar or sugar free food will cure all of their ills, like a quick fix solution to health problems which nobody wants to face the reality of- the best way to be healthy is to EAT HEALTHILY. This means a natural, balanced diet, not a diet which you believe fits in with your busy schedule, or one which is most convenient). I actually think I believe both sides of the argument are correct, I don't see why we have to pick a side. It's all a grey area!

Anyway, I'm glad you enjoyed his video too

lilyfleur · May 21, 2014

noblehead said:
No your quite right Zand, but given that some people who very low-carb are on similar doses of insulin to those who eat carbs in moderation there has to be something else at play, we were discussing this very subject only last year.

True, but equally, there are MANY people who are very low carb who are on a MUCH smaller amount of insulin than they were on a "normal" diet. I think it's the same as anything else diabetes-related: we are all different and some types of management work well for some people, and not for others.

Spiker · May 21, 2014

lilyfleur said:
True, but equally, there are MANY people who are very low carb who are on a MUCH smaller amount of insulin than they were on a "normal" diet. I think it's the same as anything else diabetes-related: we are all different and some types of management work well for some people, and not for others.

Agreed. Low carb has cut my insulin requirements by half so far, which is good, but it's not the main benefit. The main benefit is blood sugars that are much more stable, at a much lower level, with fewer and less severe hypos.

Sent from the Diabetes Forum App

lilyfleur · May 21, 2014

That sums up my experience too Spiker...

Spiker · May 21, 2014

Here are some numbers for my experience.

Previous calendar month (3rd month on pump and CGM, not low carbing)

Averages: glucose 10.4 (std dev 4.8 ). Daily insulin 58u (24 basal 34 bolus), daily carbs 199g. CGM in range 64% of the time, high 32%, low 4%

Last two weeks (on pump and CGM, low carbing)

Averages: glucose 6.3 (std dev 1.9 ). Daily insulin 32u (21 basal 11 bolus), daily carbs 74g. CGM in range 87% of the time, high 5%, low 8%

Mrs Vimes · May 21, 2014

Excellent numbers Spiker. That's the joy of lchf - smooths out the the peaks and troughs. I've never had such good piece of mind and it's been a while since I woke up soaking wet needing lucozade. I actually can't remember. The pump just makes it 'easier' after all the hard work.

Sent from the Diabetes Forum App

noblehead · May 21, 2014

lilyfleur said:
True, but equally, there are MANY people who are very low carb who are on a MUCH smaller amount of insulin than they were on a "normal" diet. I think it's the same as anything else diabetes-related: we are all different and some types of management work well for some people, and not for others.

We certainly are 'all different' lilyfleur, it's what we've all said on the forum since it began

jacquihogan99 · May 30, 2014

I like the definition 'carb intolerant' rather than diabetic. Thats how I generally describe myself, as it is more usefu#,,l and there are way too many negative associations with 'diabetic'. But I don't like the word 'just'. That makes it seem not very serious. And for T1s particularly, it is very far from trivial.

(I'm a T2. My niece is a T1.)

Kat100 · May 30, 2014

Ashlie said:
I'm sorry but this has completely angered me!! If it was as simple as being intolerant then we would just have to cut it out not take life saving medication!! It's not like being lactose intolerant is it!! Background insulin keeps us alive, we do not produce it, even if we didn't eat carbs n didn't have to take quick acting we would still need background because our pancreas has destroyed itself! T2 not so much, most T2 are diabetic due to poor lifestyle, poor diet, no exercise and being over weight, they still produce insulin just not enough to go round their bodies, thays why they take a tablet it's like a top up of insulin, so yes exercising n eating right may improve T2 but to say a type 1 is "carb intolerant" is ludicrous, even when I go on a low carb diet my levels are still high! Plus we need carbs to survive!! Diabetes causes so many complications in life n health because once one organ has started attacking itself others can too, ketones are dangerous n even having the flu can cause them not just eating carbs, using lactose intolerance as an example that doesn't cause health problems n doesn't threaten your life every day! Silly silly people agreeing with this!

Please remember that t2 is not inflicted, in a lot of cases there are many other causes....

suejat · May 30, 2014

I've only just come across this thread, and have just worked my way through it all. I'm going to write the next bit in capital letters, so that everyone should see it---UNDER NORMAL CIRCUMSTANCES no-one actually NEEDS carbohydrate. The human body has evolved so that the only substance that it can use for cellular respiration---- the process that provides energy for EVERY cell in the body---- is glucose. Because of this, it is able to make any sort of food into glucose---- even protein!!!! ( What a clever little sony it is!) Protein (at least amino acids) cannot be produced by the body, and their functions cannot be taken over by any other foodstuffs. Carbs can be stored as fat, but cannot replace fat, as some essential nutrients are fat soluble, and can only be absorbed in the presence of fat. Please note that I said at the beginning that carbs are not essential under normal circumstances. Diabetes is not a normal circumstance. It affects every sufferer differently. I am a type 2 who cannot tolerate carbs in any great quantity, so I eat as few as I can. Other people I know can eat much more, and make me jealous!

roberty1 · May 30, 2014

If we Diabetics are Carb intolerent, where does that leave myself and many other cyclists who carb load before long bike rides

bhalla · May 30, 2014

I have reduced my carbs intake and I have lost weight and I use to suffer severely with high cholesterol and now all levels are normal. I was on 2 tablets a day for my diabetes and now on 1 a day with permission from the doctor and I feel top of the world.

Don't get me wrong, I eat carbs once in a while, but not like I use to everyday. I run around with the kids and even join in when my boy's playing football without even going into out of breath mode. I would say to cut it out/down but not completely.

Robinredbreast · May 30, 2014

bhalla said:
I have reduced my carbs intake and I have lost weight and I use to suffer severely with high cholesterol and now all levels are normal. I was on 2 tablets a day for my diabetes and now on 1 a day with permission from the doctor and I feel top of the world.

Don't get me wrong, I eat carbs once in a while, but not like I use to everyday. I run around with the kids and even join in when my boy's playing football without even going into out of breath mode. I would say to cut it out/down but not completely.

I like the word 'reduced'

Diabetics are carb intolerant

Are diabetics just carb intolerant?

Yes

No

I abstain!

Expert

Master

Member

Member

Member

Active Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Guru

Newbie

Kat100

Guest

Well-Known Member

Member

Newbie

Oracle