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Diet culture is it such a thing.

Discussion in 'Type 2 Diabetes' started by Andy_Warlow, Apr 20, 2021.

  1. Mr_Pot

    Mr_Pot Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    It is, but it is well moderated and avoids most of the negativity of Facebook and the like.
     
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  2. NicoleC1971

    NicoleC1971 Type 1 · Well-Known Member

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    Like I said when I touched someone else's nerve, I understand that it isn't easy to lose fat particularly if you are insulin resistant and that there are some conditions of which I am unaware such plus ones that I am but these are rare aren't they? I don't know what your diagnosis is and if you want to tell me rather than ranting I will get clued up about it and this online corner of the world will be better for it.
    I was equally ranty when Katie Hopkins put on weight in order to demonstrate that fat people are just greedy and lazy. To me this belief is just as ignorant as those of Fat Acceptance.
    The OP was on fat shaming but I suppose what we're all striving to do here is improve our diabetes status and I hope we could agree on that?
     
  3. lucylocket61

    lucylocket61 Type 2 · Expert

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    a simple apology for your wrong assumption would be nice.

    When someone says something both untrue and hurtful, I will push back. This is not ranting. Look on this forum at least to see how many are unable to lose weight. This is not the first time you have said this, and been called out for it. Please start learning. I fail to see what you mean by my diagnosis, or why it is relevant. I am a type 2 diabetic, it says so on my profile.

    Perhaps you are still unaware that many people cant lose weight no matter what - why else would people undergo serious surgery (for example) to address this? I dont know why you think it is rare, or a complex or obscure condition also has to be in play. Look at the numbers of those who have bariatric surgery, for example. Its not rare.
     
  4. bulkbiker

    bulkbiker Type 2 · Oracle

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    What exactly is untrue and hurtful about?

    " I object to the idea that fat people can't change their body size" which I think is what you are claiming to be untrue and hurtful, please correct me if I am wrong.

    @NicoleC1971 specifically did not say "I think everyone can lose weight easily"

    Fat people can and do change their body size. When discussing the HAES "movement" this becomes an "awful" thing to do.

    Taking everything personally really doesn't help much.. (he says waiting to be accused of "mansplaining").
     
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  5. KK123

    KK123 Type 1 · Well-Known Member

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    Hi Daibell, I definitely understand this point but social media is how people communicate with each other these days (not me other than this site as I am older). You can't put the cat back in the bag as it were and if a person were to stay off social media then they would be distancing themselves from their peers/friends/colleagues etc, in a world that is practically run by social media (unfortunately!!). I know it would solve the abuse issue for an individual but wouldn't it be nice if we were just able to catch the culprits and get THEM off social media. Social media when used correctly can be a good thing. x
     
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  6. NicoleC1971

    NicoleC1971 Type 1 · Well-Known Member

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    I read in another post that you've been diabetic but med free for years in spite of no weight loss. To me that is much more important than whether you are fat or not. I won't apologise because you took offense. As ever I am trying to understand why it is so hard for people to lose weight hence my question to you. I am actually curious because I have a husband who has a 40+ bmi and finds it very hard for all sorts of reasons so I think it is an important question.
     
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  7. zand

    zand Type 2 · Expert

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    Some fat people can and do change their body size. Others can't. I believe obesity is nearly always a symptom of something else, whether that's a mental cause like depression or a physical or physiological cause. People are constantly told to lose weight because being obese can be the root cause of many health problems. No one seems to care what the root causes of obesity are. It is assumed that the fat person simply eats too much and exercises too little. Even if this is true, why is it so? I comfort ate for 18 months while some childhood suppressed memories came to the surface. Was this my fault? Or my abuser's? If someone hasn't been through this how can they know how I feel?

    Cutting carbs certainly helps decrease the appetite, but that's not the only problem. Some thin people have huge appetites and don't gain a pound. I was at a meal with 10 others a few years back and the fattest person (me) ate the least and the thinnest ate the most. It followed all the way through all 11 of us, the thinner ones ate the most with the scale sliding downwards with the fatter ones eating the least. All except me had a starter. I couldn't even finish my main meal. Only one person had a dessert as well as a starter - the smallest person in the room. Oh and that was my OMAD meal so I hadn't stuffed my face beforehand either.

    My GPs kept telling me to lose weight without telling me how. I stuck to diets which either did not work or made me actually put on weight whilst following them. I was accused of not following them. I walked 2 miles a day for a month (having not exercised regularly before) and stuck to 1000 cals a day and didn't lose an ounce, was told by a nurse 'pull the other one'.

    Those government advice adverts that use to come up suggesting that we should get fit and lose weight by walking up a flight of stairs...grrrr! Well, long before those adverts appeared, when on holiday in New York and having a hotel room on the 10th floor, guess who always used the stairs?! Yep me, yet people look at me and my body size and think I am lazy.

    I have managed to shed and keep off a couple of stones in the last 10 years, but I am still borderline very obese/morbidly obese at 16 stones 5 pounds. The only way I have lost weight in those 10 years is by walking 2+ miles every day and having less than 80 - 100g (now 30g) carbs with metformin. Metformin has been the key for me to achieve any weight loss at all. Unfortunately when my HbA1c has been less than 48 my GP wouldn't prescribe it. I cheated and ate more carbs one year to raise it to 49 so I could have it again. A T1 friend who is prescribed more metformin than he uses helped out by sending me his excess packs in the past too. Having had Covid19 my HbA1c is now 56, so Hello metformin again! I really need it to help combat insulin resistance. I have downloaded some anaerobic exercises, but without metformin even these don't seem to work.

    Watch this space. Still in the metformin tummy phase right now, but hopefully that will end soon.

    If this sounds like another rant, I'm sorry it's not meant that way. You said you wanted to understand why it's so hard for some of us to lose weight and this is some of my story.
     
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  8. lucylocket61

    lucylocket61 Type 2 · Expert

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    why would you be accused of 'mansplaining'? That is a very different thing from being a male expanding on something. I will reserve my own opinion on what I take personally, but recognise your intentions are friendly.

    the term used was 'body size' I think we read it differently, and thats ok.
     
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  9. lucylocket61

    lucylocket61 Type 2 · Expert

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    please clarify what you meant by 'I object to the idea that people cant change their body size' as, to me, it reads as people choose not to lose weight, rather than trying their best and it not happening.

    You are literally objecting to a concept that weight loss is not possible for all. How else can it be read? Perhaps you wrote something and it came out wrongly from your intention. Is this what you meant to express?

    It is a statement with no caveats about who you are speaking about, or any exceptions to that statement, or the use of 'some' in the sentence. It is an absolute sentence encompassing all.
     
  10. Andy_Warlow

    Andy_Warlow Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Wow, I never realised a lot of this.

    Right these are my thoughts.

    I liked the way someone said an ex smoker, that’s so true.

    Ok even when I was big, my size didn’t bother me. As I am very confident person.
    But totally appreciate the larger seats. A few times I couldn’t get into Booths at restaurants. I maybe so have done something about it then, but that life.

    Anyway I don’t think thin privilege, actually exists. so much blood sweat and tears have gone into losing weight. Especially the last year with the gyms closing.

    Lastly I don’t want to sound like a ****, but I believe now anyone can lose weight.
    It is an energy balance at the end of the day. Your having to much calories. Even with low carb high fat this can still happen. Don’t get much insulin resistance make it harder but not impossible.
    If you are struggling, make try and a nutritionist and look at your diet by diet I mean the way you eat.
    You could also try a food log and be honest. I found the amount of little trips to the kitchen in a day. With handful of food each time. That I wasn’t counting. It all adds up.
     
  11. Goonergal

    Goonergal Type 2 · Moderator
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    For me the ‘HAES movement’ or ‘identity politics’ or whatever you want to call it, is simply a by product of the bias and prejudice experienced by a range of people, whether they be fat, gay or part of another minority/discriminated against group. It could be seen as a form of self-protection.

    It’s also somewhat sad that anyone with any personal experience of obesity might say or do anything that could be construed or seen as fat shaming. I spent the majority of my adult life as obese / morbidly obese. Keto has changed that, but I see myself as fortunate to have been able to drop weight that way. And I’m one for whom it’s infinitely easier to put on weight, even when sticking to keto/carnivore, than it is to lose it, so empathise completely with those for whom weight loss is not a given on any eating plan.

    It is simply not true that all those who are overweight are eating ‘too much’ or the ‘wrong things’. And you know what, even if they are, they shouldn’t be judged for it.

    Sadly, some of the worst examples of fat shaming I observe are - not here, but on platforms like Twitter - are from those who have changed their own lives and feel that it’s simple for everyone and shamefully think it’s OK to use language and photos that point fingers/make fun of others in the same position that they were once in. They really should know better.

    Even more sadly, I’ve also seen an absolute step change in the way I’m treated as a non-fat person. By the medical profession, who no longer fob me off at every turn, and in general. No judgemental stares when eating on public transport and so on.
     
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  12. Brunneria

    Brunneria Other · Guru
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    I'm afraid that constitutes 'if I can do it, anyone can' thinking.
    You see it a lot amongst ex smokers, successful dieters, people who have embraced health and fitness as (dare I say it?) a new religion.

    Of course it isn't true.

    I'm all for celebrating people's successes. I'm delighted when people bounce about joyfully celebrating their new slim (or fit, or alcohol free, or whatever) life. It's great.

    And I bet you will also say that it was hard, took effort, took work, and it was the work that made the difference... Yes?
    That what it really took was determination, and courage and a willingness to change? Yes?

    I agree with that part.

    What I don't agree with is that those sterling qualities are enough for everyone to achieve the same results.
    Some people may be more determined than you were. They may be more willing. And they may be more courageous. Yet (for myriad reasons, including but not limited to hormonal dysfunction, complex medical history, mental health issues, genetics, environmental factors, and so on) they find that motivated go-getting attitude doesn't work for them.

    Again, I am delighted that you have been successful.
    And I will be even more delighted when/if you are maintaining that success in 2, 5 or even 10 years. Many people don't.

    Interestingly, I have noticed that the ones who are most jubilant about their successes are sometimes the ones who don't maintain their new life. I hope that isn't you.
     
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    #32 Brunneria, Apr 20, 2021 at 4:24 PM
    Last edited: Apr 20, 2021
  13. Antje77

    Antje77 LADA · Moderator
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    Do you mean people who have been on low calorie diets (sometimes for decades) without result should go even lower cal than is advised by any nutritionist?
    That sounds like pretty dangerous advice to me.
     
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  14. zand

    zand Type 2 · Expert

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    Yes, for me too. The difference is I didn't get the benefit of actually losing the weight

    Untrue. For starters women's hormones are much more complicated than men's.

    After a car accident 32 years ago caused bad whiplash, I have a thyroid that produces an average amount of raw hormone but doesn't convert enough into active hormone. A nutritionist and naturopath have tried to help with supplements but my GPs don't want to know. I put on 2 stones in 10 weeks after the crash and kept to the same diet I had always had. I went to the GP about my whiplash and trapped nerve in my back. I was referred for physio for the whiplash but told to lose weight for the trapped nerve. I did, on ever decreasing amounts of calories. Trouble is you can't keep cutting calories forever. I didn't even know that whiplash could damage a thyroid gland until I went to a nutritionist over 10 years ago. No doctor ever told me that.

    Really? I didn't lose weight on 800 cals a day. I did get ill though.

    I have one meal a day and I log that on my fitness pal. If I have a coffee with cream that is all measured and logged too. I got out of the habit of the little trips to the kitchen many years ago. The fact that you weren't counting the handfuls of food says alot about you. I simply don't do that - ever. It's too much trouble to log it afterwards lol The reason I log my food daily is to make sure I have at least 1200 calories. If I don't log it, I find I am simply not having enough to stay fit and well.

    Reading this makes me realise how little you actually had to put in ( as compared to me) to get your results. I have done more and not had the same outcome yet you think you know that what worked for you will work for me.

    I have long Covid and am finding that I need to rest at least twice during my 2 mile walk each day, 6 times today. Diet is easy, I've followed one kind of diet or another for 40 years. Exercise is tough now, but I am trying.
     
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  15. lucylocket61

    lucylocket61 Type 2 · Expert

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    this makes me sad. very sad. Please read the posts on here from those of us who cant lose weight, no matter what. Have a think about this issue. I assure you, hand on heart, that I am eating a max of 1200 cals a day and no weight moves. I have been under medical supervision for weight loss and nope, no weight loss. I am not the only one in this position. There is so much we dont know about how individual bodies work.
     
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  16. Hotpepper20000

    Hotpepper20000 · Well-Known Member

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    When I think of “diet culture” I think of those celebrities who have sponsored products on their Instagram account or advertise on TV.
    The message that if you consume this product or take part in this program you can look like them. When in reality they have cooks, coaches, plastic surgeons, hair stylists, makeup artists and camera filters to make them appear healthy and fit. And they lie when asked how they do it. Claiming exercise and diet.
    That is an unhealthy and unrealistic goal for any person.
     
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  17. Andy_Warlow

    Andy_Warlow Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    There is a lot of factors is weight loss.
    There is Hormones play a key role.

    There is metabolic damage, where body is not make you lose weight. Holding on to your stores if fat.

    One of the ways around this is reverse dieting. Which is really difficult.

    Also dropping calories to many to quickly can cause weight to stay.

    Also not being woman, but James smith does a great TED talk about woman hormones and weight loss. Really interesting.

    I will be two in years in October. So it been pretty consistent now, even through a pandemic.

    I was just using the example of of going to the kitchen. I was a nightmare with my food. I finish a meal and get seconds or a sandwich all the time. I would have take aways or eat out a couple of times a week. Washed down with serval beers.
    So I had to totally changed my life style. To lose weight.
     
  18. lucylocket61

    lucylocket61 Type 2 · Expert

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    Do you now accept that it is not possible, for various reasons, for some of us to not lose weight?
     
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  19. Goonergal

    Goonergal Type 2 · Moderator
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    The thing is Andy, many here have done exactly that and worked just as hard, if not harder than you, I or anyone else that has lost weight.

    All that’s being asked is a bit of sensitivity and the avoidance of the urge to assume that there’s a simple answer waiting around the corner if only ‘they’ would look hard enough.
     
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  20. zand

    zand Type 2 · Expert

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    But you had a lot to change, so it worked. Some of us don't have much they can change. I can't cut out snacks or junk food or beer - I did that years ago.
     
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