Disappointed in advice - Newly DX

Resurgam · Jan 21, 2020

One of the problems I had eating high carb was my huge waist - I was almost spherical, and when I bent over my liver was so hard and large that it pushed my ribs out - so painful - my dr said it was gallstones...
Now I can get down to wash out the very bottom of the fridge and get up again without seeing stars - I suppose I have to count that as a positive, though perhaps more accurately it is part of my regression back to what I used to be able to do..

JoKalsbeek · Jan 21, 2020

Oh, and @leatrix , back when you went for ultra low carb (Keto), did you go straight in? Could well be your body would've responded better if you'd taken the carbs down a little slower, over a few weeks time. Don't rule it out for yourself yet. Also, steer clear of artificial sweeteners. (Stevia, Erythritol are fine... Others will mess up your gut something awful.)

Deleted member 475901 · Jan 21, 2020

I am another who told my GP I wanted to try diet first. I was very obese, had a non-alcoholic fatty liver but my cholesterol was ok apart from triglycerides.

I was lucky, diagnosed as T2 early and straight onto low carb (100g for a few days then 85G for a year, now back to 100g some days) so I got into remission without any meds.

In addition, my triglycerides dropped fast on LCHF, and a recent fibroscan showed my fatty liver has resolved, all while eating more eggs and cheese and adding whole milk and cream into my diet.

Sosgez · Jan 21, 2020

I came down from 96 to 34 in a year by just not eating certain things at all, and using Metformin SR. I utterly hated straight Metformin for years, with endless problems. I'm not saying Met SR was useful - I think the dietary changes were more significant. A certain amount of exercise is also pretty useful. It lowers the appetite too. I quite like porridge with 10g of sultanas occasionally. I have portions weighed out in advance. It might not be ideal, but I see it as preventing me from giving in to something much more harmful instead.

jjraak · Jan 21, 2020

TriciaWs said:
...but my cholesterol was ok apart from triglycerides.

I was lucky, diagnosed as T2 early and straight onto low carb (100g for a few days then 85G for a year, now back to 100g some days) so I got into remission without any meds.

In addition, my triglycerides dropped fast on LCHF, ... all while eating more eggs and cheese and adding whole milk and cream into my diet.

nice work.

i agree, (i think the ratio, particularly re trigs is important.)

My trigs were in the 6's (<1.7 recommended) when i first had blood work done in 2011
no mention of how to reduce or worry about it...the cholestrol was the one they spoke of.

but eating better if not particularly well for what i suspect was an undiagnosed T2, i got the trigs down to 2.5 over 7 years :***:

but within 6 months i halved them eating LCHF (50/60 g a day)..whoop whoop
eating the same foods as you...Food that SHOULD have killed me five time over since then
if i believed all i knew before...

and got down to the more modest 1's...(1.2 in fact..well chuffed).
cholesterol followed suit and now down from high risk to borderline..
(much less bothered about that now since reading up on it)
as did my HBA1c..40 at last check up

well done you on the blood scores..long may it continue.

EllieM · Jan 21, 2020

leatrix said:
Clearly Weetabix and Shreddies weren't doing me any favours at all! *sob*

Unfortunately most cereals just have too much carb in them for T2s to tolerate, and that includes porridge. You're much better off with eggs and bacon, or berries and unsweetened greek yoghurt...

By the way, for future reference, one mg is one thousandth of a gram, so you want to count your carbs in g not mg. (We all know what you mean when you say mg, so it's not really a problem, but my scientific background is bugging me every time you say mg instead of g.

).

leatrix · Jan 22, 2020

xfieldok said:
Anything you fancy, foodwise, google it, just put keto first.

Sweet tooth, google fat bombs. I found I got along better once I learned the lingo. Your tastes will change over time.

Don't beat yourself up if you fall off the wagon. Treat it as part of your education.

*lol* Spent most of last night watching a sad programme about twins on Netflix whilst nipping on Instgram and hashtag searching #ketodiet and #ketofood, lots of great recipes popped up; I definitely think I got this!

leatrix · Jan 22, 2020

jjraak said:
I think @JohnEGreen had issues caused by preds..tagged him in case he can offer some insight, as well as @xfieldok input..
never hurts to have more info.

As for being spotted ..i wasn't, though rarely went to docs..did have a health issue back in 2011,
not dx'd as t2, but i think i was well on the way back then..so maybe if you don't present with symptoms i guess it's not on anyone radar..at least not back then

Thanks! I did some research last night on the pred link and was astounded at how much pred can cause diabetes. I'm still waiting on the clinic to get back to me (to be fair they did say yesterday or today, I'm guessing their busy), so will almost certainly be bringing it up. Yes, I think, if you're not a regular doctor visitor, it goes under the radar.

leatrix · Jan 22, 2020

JoKalsbeek said:
Well, if you like the liver bit: It was so fatty, that the specialist thought it was one big tumorous mass and I had a few weeks left to live, tops. Once he found it was "an abnormal stacking of fat" he told me there was nothing I nor he could do about it, and he'd see me again when cirrhosis kicked in. Well... If they'd do an ultrasound they'd probably still see some fat in there someplace, but it doesn't show up in the blood work anymore, so... For all intents and purposes, the non alcoholic fatty liver disease is gone. Levels and function are all normal. And a lot of people here have found their liver cheered right up on LCHF too.

So yeah... LCHF is kind of a cure-all. I have a feeling you're going to be perfectly fine.

Wow! No that *is* a turnaround..crikey what a scary time you must have had and to see how you've turned it all around is nothing short of real determination! I do doth my cap! On the plus side, this is very good news for me, as it means I can just concentrate on getting those BS numbers down (6.6 today!) and hopefully the rest will follow. Thank You!

JoKalsbeek · Jan 22, 2020

leatrix said:
Wow! No that *is* a turnaround..crikey what a scary time you must have had and to see how you've turned it all around is nothing short of real determination! I do doth my cap! On the plus side, this is very good news for me, as it means I can just concentrate on getting those BS numbers down (6.6 today!) and hopefully the rest will follow. Thank You!

At the time I was terrified and horrified... I never could have suspected then, that those few terrifying weeks would end up being a hopeful anecdote one day. Now there's a lovely outcome eh!

jjraak · Jan 22, 2020

leatrix said:
Thanks! I did some research last night on the pred link and was astounded at how much pred can cause diabetes. I'm still waiting on the clinic to get back to me (to be fair they did say yesterday or today, I'm guessing their busy), so will almost certainly be bringing it up. Yes, I think, if you're not a regular doctor visitor, it goes under the radar.

KNOWLEDGE..too much can be bad, but we NEED to know what MAY be going on..
because i doubt the docs know all the answers UNLESS we ask the right questions.

10 mins to catch up on who YOU are, talk about whats going AND discuss possible downfalls and outcomes of many things that CAN interact with us..not happening, so forewarned IS forearmed.

the term General Practitioner says it all.

WE have to become the experts of US, imho
if we are to get the best advice and help possible

is that obsessive..so what..

i could quote L'oreal and say we're worth it...(and we are )

but i'm more with spock.

"Live long & Prosper"

and didn't he always seek more knowledge.?

after all it's only Logical, captain.

leatrix · Jan 22, 2020

JohnEGreen said:
Thanks for the tag @jjraak

Diabetes is more likely to be induced if you have been on high dose for 3 months or more but it can in some cases say if you had an underlying susceptibility happen in a shorter time depends on the individual I was on 40 and above mg per day for several years.

Once you have stopped taking them normally the diabetes will go away but if you had an underlying susceptibility for instance there are instances when it can become permanent but that does not happen often and if it does you should be able to manage it with diet or some meds so I would not be too scared about it when you come off the preds as you have the effects don't just disappear overnight it may take a while for you to get back to normal if however the preds have just unmasked what was already there then you may have to deal with it.

If your old practice had had no reason to test for diabetes and you were not reporting symptoms then it could easily have been missed.

My old practice even though I was reporting symptoms and my neurologist had informed them of my raised HbA1c refused to acknowledge my diabetes for about two years then my new doctors surgery diagnosed me as soon as I registered with them.

I wish you well and hope your nurse will be able to reassure you that your diabetes is temporary and that it will subside.

Bye the way I am still taking preds and manage low blood sugars even so, so things are not that desperate.[/Q

Thanks for dropping me a line! That's very interesting as I was on a high level of pred for 3/4 months, so it's definitely something I'm going to mention when the clinic get back to me (assuming today). Ahh now I've read that when you stop taking them it will go away, which means almost certainly it won't be this for me, which is a bit of a relief as I hoping to be dealing with t2 as this is the easiest to solve by diet I'm guessing, so your info is very handy to know. From what i've been reading lots of people came across the diabetes by accident, rather than going in specifically with the symptons in mind. Good to hear you're coping too! Thank you

Thanks for message, much to consider here, especially as I was on high dosage of pred for 3-4 months and am certainly going to mention it to the

JohnEGreen said:
Thanks for the tag @jjraak

Diabetes is more likely to be induced if you have been on high dose for 3 months or more but it can in some cases say if you had an underlying susceptibility happen in a shorter time depends on the individual I was on 40 and above mg per day for several years.

Once you have stopped taking them normally the diabetes will go away but if you had an underlying susceptibility for instance there are instances when it can become permanent but that does not happen often and if it does you should be able to manage it with diet or some meds so I would not be too scared about it when you come off the preds as you have the effects don't just disappear overnight it may take a while for you to get back to normal if however the preds have just unmasked what was already there then you may have to deal with it.

If your old practice had had no reason to test for diabetes and you were not reporting symptoms then it could easily have been missed.

My old practice even though I was reporting symptoms and my neurologist had informed them of my raised HbA1c refused to acknowledge my diabetes for about two years then my new doctors surgery diagnosed me as soon as I registered with them.

I wish you well and hope your nurse will be able to reassure you that your diabetes is temporary and that it will subside.

Bye the way I am still taking preds and manage low blood sugars even so, so things are not that desperate.

leatrix · Jan 22, 2020

Resurgam said:
One of the problems I had eating high carb was my huge waist - I was almost spherical, and when I bent over my liver was so hard and large that it pushed my ribs out - so painful - my dr said it was gallstones...
Now I can get down to wash out the very bottom of the fridge and get up again without seeing stars - I suppose I have to count that as a positive, though perhaps more accurately it is part of my regression back to what I used to be able to do..

Hi there and thanks for posting to me. Sounds like the high carb way of eating doesn't really suit many of us at all. I can well remember the days when I probably knocked back at least 500 carbs a day! Thoroughly enjoyed them too, but all good (bad for you) things must come to an end!

leatrix · Jan 22, 2020

JoKalsbeek said:
Oh, and @leatrix , back when you went for ultra low carb (Keto), did you go straight in? Could well be your body would've responded better if you'd taken the carbs down a little slower, over a few weeks time. Don't rule it out for yourself yet. Also, steer clear of artificial sweeteners. (Stevia, Erythritol are fine... Others will mess up your gut something awful.)

Yes, I did and I think I got Keto Flu with it, because I felt terrible; I did persevere for some months, but it was just too drastic for me to cope with. I was looking good but spending all my time in the loo, so noone saw my weight loss anyway! The slower way I'm doing it now, is definitely better for me, less of a shock to the system and my BS is definitely coming down on the meter too. Luckilly I don't take artificial sweeteners, I tend just not to have the Coke (I'm so missing, but gotta be done!) instead of the diet version.

leatrix · Jan 22, 2020

TriciaWs said:
I am another who told my GP I wanted to try diet first. I was very obese, had a non-alcoholic fatty liver but my cholesterol was ok apart from triglycerides.

I was lucky, diagnosed as T2 early and straight onto low carb (100g for a few days then 85G for a year, now back to 100g some days) so I got into remission without any meds.

In addition, my triglycerides dropped fast on LCHF, and a recent fibroscan showed my fatty liver has resolved, all while eating more eggs and cheese and adding whole milk and cream into my diet.

Ooh thanks for replying, this is interesting as I'm trying at 100g for a few days then onto 80g so sounds just about how I'm hoping to tackle the t2 diabetes and delighted to hear it's worked for you, not dropping down to the 20g/30g level I've been reading a lot about on instagram. I'm loving hearing about everyone's fatty livers repairing too, gives me real hope for this year!

leatrix · Jan 22, 2020

Sosgez said:
I came down from 96 to 34 in a year by just not eating certain things at all, and using Metformin SR. I utterly hated straight Metformin for years, with endless problems. I'm not saying Met SR was useful - I think the dietary changes were more significant. A certain amount of exercise is also pretty useful. It lowers the appetite too. I quite like porridge with 10g of sultanas occasionally. I have portions weighed out in advance. It might not be ideal, but I see it as preventing me from giving in to something much more harmful instead.

I have yet to hear back from the clinic (I'm certain they're just super busy) but I told them I'd not started the meds as yet, but totally understand if they want me on them, after me trying the diet, I'll definitely seriously consider it. Sadly, aside from swimming each week, which I love, I have mobility difficulties (joined to my twin sister by the foot, and when they seperated us, it left our feet a bit of of line), so running/walking etc causes me a good deal of pain, but I've already now downloaded a fitness app which allows for an armchair exercises...not better time than the present! Yes, I've noticed if I portion everything out and batch cook it's much easier to stay on plan. Loving that you went from 96 to 34 in only a year though! #inspiring

leatrix · Jan 22, 2020

EllieM said:
Unfortunately most cereals just have too much carb in them for T2s to tolerate, and that includes porridge. You're much better off with eggs and bacon, or berries and unsweetened greek yoghurt...

By the way, for future reference, one mg is one thousandth of a gram, so you want to count your carbs in g not mg. (We all know what you mean when you say mg, so it's not really a problem, but my scientific background is bugging me every time you say mg instead of g. ).

I know! *sob* and *sob* again...you can probably see how I got into this predicament to start with! I'd think nothing of munching on a big bowl of Crunchy Nut Cornflakes for brekkie and then some for supper, it's definitely all my fault I got into this state! Hence why I'm desperate to reform my past habit and ditch the high carb foods. I actually love eggs, bacon, berries etc, so think it won't be as hard as I think it will be. Here's hoping anyway!

Oh yes, many apologies; don't ask me why I wrote mg instead of g, it's just my muddled brain trying to cram knowledge in all at once! *lol*

JoKalsbeek · Jan 22, 2020

leatrix said:
Yes, I did and I think I got Keto Flu with it, because I felt terrible; I did persevere for some months, but it was just too drastic for me to cope with. I was looking good but spending all my time in the loo, so noone saw my weight loss anyway! The slower way I'm doing it now, is definitely better for me, less of a shock to the system and my BS is definitely coming down on the meter too. Luckilly I don't take artificial sweeteners, I tend just not to have the Coke (I'm so missing, but gotta be done!) instead of the diet version.

Keto flu isn't supposed to last for months. (Usually a few days up to a week or two, and is relatively easily solved once you know how.) Odds are you were missing something, somewhere... Or your body just got such a jolt from upping the fats it went nuts for a bit. Taking it slow should indeed help. Glad you're seeing results.

Resurgam · Jan 22, 2020

leatrix said:
Hi there and thanks for posting to me. Sounds like the high carb way of eating doesn't really suit many of us at all. I can well remember the days when I probably knocked back at least 500 carbs a day! Thoroughly enjoyed them too, but all good (bad for you) things must come to an end!

I was on a diet to reduce cholesterol - so I was told. I hated the foods which were supposed to be saving my life, and had to stop weighing myself as the pounds piled on remorselessly, apparently all my fault for not running marathons at the weekends.

timgil · Jan 22, 2020

leatrix said:
Oh wow, you don't know just how much you've cheered me up! I'm used to reasonable carb counting from my diet, so knew I had the dedication to lower the carbs, as it's just a matter of tweaking my existing diet (albiet quite a lot more tighter). I just don't like the thought that I could hypo on Gliclazide, esp as I have two boys with autism and I know they wouldn't cope, so I'm trying to keep it altogether at the moment. I'm going to call the Diabetic nurse in the morning and see if I can have the at least 2 weeks grace before going back to see her, and see if I can delay taking the GZ until I can see if I can get the numbers down by diet (and perhaps Metaformin). Can't thank xfieldok enough to recommending I speak to you and to you for giving me hope! x

I was diagnosed December 2018 and my first A1C was 122. While I don't think the diabetes nurse I have seen has always given me the best advice - she has not "forced" me into anything and I have clearly (but politely) told her where I disagreed (and why). I am not someone who can "follow a diet" and quickly realised that its a lifestyle change I needed rather than "go on a diet". Initially I was on Glimepiride but then moved to Metformin more recently. To be honest, I felt really bad - and it was no shock that I had T2 - so I was willing to take the Glimepiride to start with. I had more reluctance to take the Metformin as I was worried about the side effects (which never happened for me).

While I am sure the drugs have made a big difference - I also think my change in eating habits have made more difference and all I have done really is cut down on carbs. Cut out white bread, only have seeded multi grain, and not nearly as much as I used to. I used to eat far too much pastry from Greggs - so I have cut that out mostly (only an occasional treat) and I park my car a good 10-15 mins walk away from work each day.

Basically I have just changed my diet to "sensible" and I am sure this has had as much effect as the Metformin. My latest two A1c results were 37 in September when I was coming off he Glimepiride and 39 just a few days ago. I was worried it would go up a little coming off the Glimepiride but seems to have been unfounded.

When I was on the Glimepiride I didn't have too many problems with Hypos. A few times my sugar went down to the low 4's and only one time went to 3.8. I did several have symptoms of hypos but that was in the 5's as my body had been so used to having high sugar (I recorded 27.1mmol/l at once stage just after being diagnosed!). Now, fingerprick tests are often around 5.6 which I am super happy with.

My advice would be read what you can - learn what your options are - talk to the fantastic people here - listen to your medical professionals and THEN make your own decisions. I have also found that when I had said "no" to the nurse, giving a reason and being prepared to follow this up with a source for why I feel that way... has really helped. In my case I have found the nurse just wants to make sure I am making informed choices. If she can see I have thought about it and have a reason for what I am saying, she accepts that this is my decision and I am informed. She's fine then. Most heal care professions SHOULD be of the feeling that it's YOUR health and YOUR decision and they offer guidance and support.

Good luck!

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