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Does fatty acid oxidation reduce or increase inflammation?

Discussion in 'Diabetes Discussions' started by Cocosilk, Jan 30, 2020.

  1. Cocosilk

    Cocosilk Gestational · Well-Known Member

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    I'm trying to read something and am out of my depth. Can anyone comment on this and make it clearer?

    I guess the main thing I'm trying to understand is this: Can eating very low carb cause inflammation by increasing fatty acid oxidation? Or does it reduce inflammation (which is what I assumed)?

    I've read somewhere that fatty acid oxidation, which happens in the fasted state (and I assume when you restrict carbohydrates by following a keto or carnivore diet), improves your health and reduces inflammation. I can't find where I read that though and I might just be making that up.

    But now I am looking at this article (linked below) and it seems to say that increased fatty acid oxidation is associated with health problems like T2. ... I'm confused. Can anyone help?

    It says: "Energy metabolism in the aerobic heart differs from that in the insulin-resistant heart (fig. 1). In the latter, fatty acids are favored as an energy source over glucose, which is thus associated with increased fatty acid oxidation, and an overall decrease in glycolysis and glucose oxidation. (Wouldn't this be a coping mechanism? And I also don't get how you can mobilize fatty acids if you are feeding your body glucose via carbs. Again though, I not sure I understand any of this properly..)

    "As muscle fatty acid uptake and oxidation is increased in insulin-resistant and diabetic individuals, increased fatty acid metabolism can thus directly impair glucose metabolism in muscle. In addition, accumulation of fatty acid metabolites in muscle can impair insulin signaling," (Is this also the same as the physiological insulin resistance people experience when in ketosis?)

    https://www.karger.com/Article/Fulltext/448357

    "In well-fed animals the liver converts excess carbohydrates to fatty acids, whereas in fasting animals fatty acid oxidation is the predominant activity, along with the formation of ketones.

    https://www.britannica.com/science/lipid/Mobilization-of-fatty-acids
     
  2. ianf0ster

    ianf0ster Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    I haver seen a few of these mouse studies which appear to give results that aren't consistent with what appears to work for us (T2Diabetics).
    Here is one that I commented on in 'the other forum':

    Another member posted:
    "A ketogenic diet -- which provides 99% of calories from fat and only 1% from carbohydrates -- produces health benefits in the short term, but negative effects after about a week, Yale researchers found in a study of mice.

    The results offer early indications that the keto diet could, over limited time periods, improve human health by lowering diabetes risk and inflammation. They also represent an important first step toward possible clinical trials in humans.

    The keto diet has become increasingly popular as celebrities, including Gwyneth Paltrow, Lebron James, and Kim Kardashian, have touted it as a weight-loss regimen.

    https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2020/01/200127134741.htm "

    I replied:
    I quote the relevant part of this and bold the key phrases, the rather strange parts I put in italics:

    "A keto diet tricks the body into burning fat, said lead author Vishwa Deep Dixit of the Yale School of Medicine. When the body's glucose level is reduced due to the diet's low carbohydrate content, the body acts as if it is in a starvation state -- although it is not -- and begins burning fats instead of carbohydrates. This process in turn yields chemicals called ketone bodies as an alternative source of fuel. When the body burns ketone bodies, tissue-protective gamma delta T-cells expand throughout the body.

    This reduces diabetes risk and inflammation, and improves the body's metabolism, said Dixit, the Waldemar Von Zedtwitz Professor of Comparative Medicine and of Immunobiology. After a week on the keto diet, he said, mice show a reduction in blood sugar levels and inflammation.

    But when the body is in this "starving-not-starving" mode, fat storage is also happening simultaneously with fat breakdown, the researchers found. When mice continue to eat the high-fat, low-carb diet beyond one week, Dixit said, they consume more fat than they can burn, and develop diabetes and obesity."

    My comments / questions:
    It is important to note that where 'diabetes' is mentioned, it really should be saying Type 2 Diabetes - since this doesn't apply to other forms such as Type 1.
    1. We do know that it is possible to over-eat when on a Keto 'Way Of Eating'. But surely this isn't possible on a Keto diet - the word diet implying a calorie restriction!
    2. Do mice exhibit that same satiety controls such as humans and cats, or do they lack them as in dogs and bears? If they lack the satiety controls, then the 'continuing to eat high-fat, low-carb' portion of the text shows that the experiment was designed to show a poor longer-term result.
    3. Do natural mice develop diabetes from eating fats - or is this just because the lab mice are genetically altered to be susceptible to diabetes?
    4. Is there any evidence that humans ever develop type 2 diabetes from eating fat without carbs? All the evidence I see shows that it is due to carbohydrates.
    How do you develop Insulin Resistance by eating something that lowers your Insulin? Do people with allergies get worse by avoiding that to which they are allergic to?
     
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  3. bulkbiker

    bulkbiker Type 2 · Oracle

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    A. It's in mice who find it hard to be in ketosis as they haven't evolved to work that way.
    B. It is really important to look at exactly what the mice were fed. The chow is often very high in seed oil which could well promote inflammation rather than healthy animals fats.
    C. We're simply not mice so any conclusion drawn from the study applies to mice and not humans.

    Hope that helps.. I tend to ignore anything that involves mice these days...
     
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  4. Cocosilk

    Cocosilk Gestational · Well-Known Member

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    The part about it leading to diabetes doesn't sound right. But if it burning off your own fat stores somehow causes inflammation, then I wonder what long term health outcomes it might have if we are left with that. Obviously eating carbs is killing us anyway. And overeating anything can't end well either.
     
  5. Cocosilk

    Cocosilk Gestational · Well-Known Member

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    That does help because I forgot about those rodent studies using seed oils for their high fat experiments. Makes sense that it might cause inflammation. So eating healthy fats and the fat burning your body does when in ketosis shouldn't be causing inflammation then hopefully.
     
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  6. bulkbiker

    bulkbiker Type 2 · Oracle

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    It seems pretty unlikely or we'd be inflamed most of the time especially when sleeping... which would be an odd mechanism to build health on.
     
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  7. ianf0ster

    ianf0ster Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Good point !
     
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  8. Jim Lahey

    Jim Lahey I reversed my Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Makes me laugh when these studies feed mice the exact stuff that most seasoned keto/paleo/carnivore types avoid like the plague, and then use the negative outcomes as alleged evidence of the dangers of keto/paleo/carnivore.
     
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  9. Lamont D

    Lamont D Reactive hypoglycemia · Master

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    Inflammation is a major cause of endocrine conditions.
    In my experience, and my research and discussions with my endocrinologist, inflammation, is reduced on a lower carb diet such as LCHF, or being in ketosis.
    However, there is wide disagreement in continuous dietary carbohydrate restriction.
    My endocrinologist encourages lowering carb intake as a treatment but was worried about my very, very low carb diet. It wasn't until, I lost a lot of weight, got rid of a lot of visceral fat, reducing inflammation including my fatty liver (NAFL), and other improvements in my health did my specialist agree that being in ketosis improved my health so much.
    I am the the guinea pig, having gone through my battle with carbs, that in my case, inflammation caused by carbs, is well and truly something that I need to wary of.

    I have never taken part in a mouse trial, I would plead not guilty!
     
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  10. tim2000s

    tim2000s Type 1 · Expert
    Retired Moderator

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    This is all you need to know about Mice Trials:

     
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  11. Tophat1900

    Tophat1900 Type 3c · Well-Known Member

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    That's it, I haven't read anything that actually discloses what the diet they are fed is. It's a bit like chalk and cheese (No pun intended) when it comes to diet for two different animals where one lives a fast paced short life and another lives a much longer life.

    The main reason for using mice in these studies is mice are cheap and ethics just don't apply.
     
  12. bulkbiker

    bulkbiker Type 2 · Oracle

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    I know that Siobhan Huggins identified the mouse chow that was used in the most recent "keto makes mice fat" studies and it was composed of very large concentrations of seed oils. The mice are also bred to be susceptible to obesity and cancer.. makes you wonder.. I'm afraid it was on twitter and I didn't save the link..
     
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  13. Jim Lahey

    Jim Lahey I reversed my Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    To my knowledge, which obviously isn't infallible, high fat studies in mice generally use seed oils. I certainly think it's reasonable to assume so unless clearly stated otherwise. Little wonder they basically fall apart.
     
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  14. Tophat1900

    Tophat1900 Type 3c · Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for the info, I have no reason to not believe you, link or no link. ;)
     
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  15. millenium

    millenium Carer · Well-Known Member

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    The bottom line is even on low carb try your best to eat a balance diet.
     
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  16. Hotpepper20000

    Hotpepper20000 · Well-Known Member

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    But a balanced diet is open to interpretation.
    The only things I eat are ones that my BG meter tell me don’t spike my blood sugar.
    So no grains, little seeds and nuts. No legumes, no root vegetables and no fruit. For the general population that would not be considered a “balanced” diet.
     
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  17. Tophat1900

    Tophat1900 Type 3c · Well-Known Member

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    I get the same impression of what a balanced diet means, I just think this idea that we must eat a balanced diet is rubbish.
     
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  18. millenium

    millenium Carer · Well-Known Member

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    In a way, u r right. Cos different people have different definitions. In fact, mine for my patient is a balance diet but with little grains and little veg Hugh in carbo. He get his low carbs mainly from fruits and a little refined flour (there because of his personal taste). Other than that, he takes lower carb vegetables, meat and whey protein. Diet tend to be higher in fat also.
     
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