Don't laugh (or do), why am I going low every time I share a bed with my friend?

[Antje77]

It's a bit of an uncomfortable question but I'm still going to ask because I can't think of a likely cause.
Usually I'm pretty good at working out what makes my diabetes behave in unusual ways, but this one has me baffled, so now I'm curious if others have experienced a similar thing, or if any of you can come up with a likely explanation.
Please ignore if you disapprove of the concept of 'friends with benefits'.

Long story to paint a picture where you may notice something I have missed.

My neighbour lives in a trailer in my garden, and we sometimes share a meal, build a fire in the garden, do some drinking, or work together on something around the house.
Some two months ago we had one of those fire and drinking nights, and to our own surprise we ended up sharing the bed in his trailer. Very nice it was too, I hadn't shared a bed with anyone since long before diabetes and he hadn't either in a long time. I hadn't realised how much I'd missed some skin on skin contact so it was a welcome surprise.
Since then, we've usually shared drinks and a bed once a week, lots of cuddling, nothing wild enough to count as 'exercise' to make my BG drop.

Almost every single time I've had to prevent or treat hypos during the night and early morning, even if my last bolus was over 10 hours ago, which makes me think it's a basal issue. Very strange, in my 7+ years of insulin, I've never had issues with nighttime lows, no matter what foods, drinks or activity I had, so they only happen in this very specific situation.
My basal needs do fluctuate a bit, but definitely not to this extent.

My eating and activity patterns are quite erratic, sometimes my evening meal is my first meal of the day, sometimes my third, some days are spent mainly on the couch,on other days I'm very active, main meal can be at 7 pm or at 10:30 pm, I go to sleep anywhere between 11:30 pm and 5 am, and none of this is an issue with my diabetes management. So I don't see how some slightly different 'routine' when sleeping with my neighbour can make such a big difference.

I'm a regular drinker and know how to dose for my drinks while keeping a straightish line. Yes, alcohol has been involved on those nights as well, but this is not unusual and it doesn't drop me when I sleep at home or at work.
So even though alcohol is a well known cause for nighttime hypos, I don't think this is the issue here either.

Something that is different is my midnight snacking habits.
At home, I tend to eat some chicory and hummus or pork schratchings with aioli, or both, right before bed. With my neighbour, I don't.
But 3 weeks ago I had a bit of an experiment, and I did go home to eat my usual midnight snack before returning to my neighbour to see if it would make a difference. It didn't, I still went low.

Two weeks ago I ate some of his chocolate easter eggs before bed to prevent a hypo (lots of carbs for somone usually eating low carb), and still had to treat with winegums and more chocolate 3 times during the night.

On friday (see graph) I initially went low shortly after midnight, right before bed. Last bolus had been at 8:15 pm, so this could well have been the tail of my mealtime dose. By now I expect to go low when I'm there, so I ate a substantial amount of crisps (very long and slow acting carbs) to see me through the night.
It only raised me to 6.5 before dropping again at around 3 am, long after my last bolus should have been active.
I treated with a winegum and more crisps, which worked for another 4.5 hours, after which I silenced the alarm, being still at 3.8 and sick of getting out of bed. Until 10:30, when symptoms became apparent so I got up and treated.

So what am I missing here?
It just doesn't seem to make sense. Usually, a single winegum or less is enough to treat a hypo for me.

There is another possibility but I thought it very unlikely: Can it be that feeling completely safe and relaxed lowers my insulin need? I mean, I like my own bed as well, but sleeping snuggled up against a warm and friendly body does add quite a lot to my feeling of wellbeing.

 

[Rachox]

I’m so glad you’ve found a friend in your neighbour. Could it simply be as you say in your last sentence that you are so relaxed in his company that you go low, the exact opposite of going high if stressed?

 

[Zhnyaka]

Probably because of the endorphins. I often put a sugar bowl by the bed before sex, so maybe this is typical. I can't say that I really like to interrupt the process to eat sugar, but to some extent, when you are served sugar at such a moment, it's even romantic. The problem is that if I raise my bg enough so that it definitely doesn't fall to hypo, then I won't want sex. You can try using grapes, as it will quickly increase bg and it is romantic to eat it with wine

 

[Antje77]

I’m so glad you’ve found a friend in your neighbour. Could it simply be as you say in your last sentence that you are so relaxed in his company that you go low, the exact opposite of going high if stressed?

It's starting to look that way, but I can't really believe this.
I mean, my basal is close to spot on on most days, the amount of carbs I need on those nights is ridiculous.
Yesterday I slept in my own bed again, and all back to normal.

And yes, having found a friend in my neighbour is very nice, especially with us sharing the garden.

 

[Antje77]

Probably because of the endorphins. I often put a sugar bowl by the bed before sex, so maybe this is typical. I can't say that I really like to interrupt the process to eat sugar, but to some extent, when you are served sugar at such a moment, it's even romantic. The problem is that if I raise my bg enough so that it definitely doesn't fall to hypo, then I won't want sex. You can try using grapes, as it will quickly increase bg and it is romantic to eat it with wine

Oh, you give me some interesting ideas here!
Turn those pesky hypos into something enjoyable.

 

[JoKalsbeek]

It's a bit of an uncomfortable question but I'm still going to ask because I can't think of a likely cause.
Usually I'm pretty good at working out what makes my diabetes behave in unusual ways, but this one has me baffled, so now I'm curious if others have experienced a similar thing, or if any of you can come up with a likely explanation.
Please ignore if you disapprove of the concept of 'friends with benefits'.

Long story to paint a picture where you may notice something I have missed.

My neighbour lives in a trailer in my garden, and we sometimes share a meal, build a fire in the garden, do some drinking, or work together on something around the house.
Some two months ago we had one of those fire and drinking nights, and to our own surprise we ended up sharing the bed in his trailer. Very nice it was too, I hadn't shared a bed with anyone since long before diabetes and he hadn't either in a long time. I hadn't realised how much I'd missed some skin on skin contact so it was a welcome surprise.
Since then, we've usually shared drinks and a bed once a week, lots of cuddling, nothing wild enough to count as 'exercise' to make my BG drop.

Almost every single time I've had to prevent or treat hypos during the night and early morning, even if my last bolus was over 10 hours ago, which makes me think it's a basal issue. Very strange, in my 7+ years of insulin, I've never had issues with nighttime lows, no matter what foods, drinks or activity I had, so they only happen in this very specific situation.
My basal needs do fluctuate a bit, but definitely not to this extent.

My eating and activity patterns are quite erratic, sometimes my evening meal is my first meal of the day, sometimes my third, some days are spent mainly on the couch,on other days I'm very active, main meal can be at 7 pm or at 10:30 pm, I go to sleep anywhere between 11:30 pm and 5 am, and none of this is an issue with my diabetes management. So I don't see how some slightly different 'routine' when sleeping with my neighbour can make such a big difference.

I'm a regular drinker and know how to dose for my drinks while keeping a straightish line. Yes, alcohol has been involved on those nights as well, but this is not unusual and it doesn't drop me when I sleep at home or at work.
So even though alcohol is a well known cause for nighttime hypos, I don't think this is the issue here either.

Something that is different is my midnight snacking habits.
At home, I tend to eat some chicory and hummus or pork schratchings with aioli, or both, right before bed. With my neighbour, I don't.
But 3 weeks ago I had a bit of an experiment, and I did go home to eat my usual midnight snack before returning to my neighbour to see if it would make a difference. It didn't, I still went low.

Two weeks ago I ate some of his chocolate easter eggs before bed to prevent a hypo (lots of carbs for somone usually eating low carb), and still had to treat with winegums and more chocolate 3 times during the night.

On friday (see graph) I initially went low shortly after midnight, right before bed. Last bolus had been at 8:15 pm, so this could well have been the tail of my mealtime dose. By now I expect to go low when I'm there, so I ate a substantial amount of crisps (very long and slow acting carbs) to see me through the night.
It only raised me to 6.5 before dropping again at around 3 am, long after my last bolus should have been active.
I treated with a winegum and more crisps, which worked for another 4.5 hours, after which I silenced the alarm, being still at 3.8 and sick of getting out of bed. Until 10:30, when symptoms became apparent so I got up and treated.

So what am I missing here?
It just doesn't seem to make sense. Usually, a single winegum or less is enough to treat a hypo for me.

There is another possibility but I thought it very unlikely: Can it be that feeling completely safe and relaxed lowers my insulin need? I mean, I like my own bed as well, but sleeping snuggled up against a warm and friendly body does add quite a lot to my feeling of wellbeing.

View attachment 67177

I was thinking the relaxation bit combined with reduced liver dumping due to the alcohol? The combo of the two? But really... I love the feeding-Antje-grapes idea!

 

[jjraak]

Much underrated, that power of another's touch.

Good for you, @Antje77

T2D here, so little knowledge of insulin, etc

I often hear the idea "other ' things can impact our bg levels

And on a forensic level, the partnership is the new item on your suspect list...so ...mmhh

I'd say the comfort is a good possibility.

Or maybe that skipped heartbeat of butterflies acts like a high carb & drops you low when the sensations subsides ?

Either way, liking the intro of the semi erotic "beullah, peel me a grape" Roman ceasars scene... win/win

Hope you find the cause or a reasonable solution.


At the end of the day, Love is love, whoever we are, wherever we are, however old we are....long may it remain so, not matter what we choose to call it.

If any of us ever get just a sliver of how Roberta calls it, I think we are mightily blessed by such feelings.

 

[Antje77]

Much underrated, that power of another's touch.

Good for you, @Antje77

Thanks, and yes, way underrated.
With the reactions here, and doing some more thinking on it myself, I'm starting to think it more and more likely this actually is the cause.

Either way, liking the intro of the semi erotic "beullah, peel me a grape" Roman ceasars scene... win/win

So do I, but realistically, I don't expect this to become part of our routine.
While we like eachother a lot as neighbours and friends, the main thing we get out of this is skin on skin, the freedom to touch every time you half wake up to turn around or have a sip of water. The sexual bit is only a very small part of it, we're just not that attracted to eachother even though the touchy-feely stuff does lead to, erm, things.
Besides, there are always 3 to 5 small dogs in the way, and we're both more practical than romantical so I suppos I'll just need to remember to put the winegums next to the bed.

At the end of the day, Love is love, whoever we are, wherever we are, however old we are....long may it remain so, not matter what we choose to call it.

If any of us ever get just a sliver of how Roberta calls it, I think we are mightily blessed by such feelings.

So a very small sliver it is, but a very enjoyable one!

Think I should join a dating app looking for someone to lower my basal insulin needs?

 

[Melgar]

It is lovely that you have found a companion to share some loving moments with I think that the effects of happiness and feelings of excitement and well being on the body is not fully understood and most certainly under rated. It is well documented that loneliness can have a very negative impact on your well being, even shortening your life, so I would suggest that happiness and human company (I would say animals as well , because I love them) can have the complete reverse effect. Your body is responding with, for want of a better words, happiness chemicals. As for living a life that makes you happy, I can join you , because I wave a rainbow flag. Mel

 

[Zhnyaka]

Think I should join a dating app looking for someone to lower my basal insulin needs?

the effect is not so long as to affect the basal, especially on such a basal as tresiba, rather it affects the need for a bolus, and even then for several hours
but "looking for someone to lower my basal insulin needs" would be a very interesting description of a profile on a dating app

 

[Antje77]

the effect is not so long as to affect the basal, especially on such a basal as tresiba, rather it affects the need for a bolus, and even then for several hours
but "looking for someone to lower my basal insulin needs" would be a very interesting description of a profile on a dating app

Well, I get those hypos long after my last bolus, so it needs a basal adjustment. Which like you say, is pretty much impossible on Tresiba for one night a week.
I do have Levemir as well but haven't used it in a while. Perhaps I should dial my Tresiba down a bit to give me room for playing with the Levemir again.
Or I'll just need to find an all week partner of course, keeping my insulin needs steady, preferably of the type @jjraak proposed.
Not being one for using dating apps, do you think partners are available under the Dutch version of the NHS?

 

[Deleted member 527103]

the effect is not so long as to affect the basal, especially on such a basal as tresiba, rather it affects the need for a bolus, and even then for several hours

Sex is exercise. Exercise affects our BG for up to 48 hours.
Thankfully, I take flexible basal rather than ultra long insulin like Tresiba. Therefore, I reduce my basal (nothing to do with bolus) for two days.
If I was on more rigid basal, I would need to reduce bolus AND feed my excess basal.

 

[Antje77]

It is lovely that you have found a companion to share some loving moments with I think that the effects of happiness and feelings of excitement and well being on the body is not fully understood and most certainly under rated. It is well documented that loneliness can have a very negative impact on your well being, even shortening your life, so I would suggest that happiness and human company (I would say animals as well , because I love them) can have the complete reverse effect. Your body is responding with, for want of a better words, happiness chemicals. As for living a life that makes you happy, I can join you , because I wave a rainbow flag. Mel

Animals have done and are still doing a very good job in keeping me reasonably happy, and I'm pretty sure that without my animals I would have ended things years ago.
Neighbour mentioned just that the other day. He told me that 6 or 7 years ago, he and his girlfriend at the time (a very good friend of mine, although we fell out of touch by now) discussed just exactly how great the risk was of one day finding me in the stairwell. They were correct in thinking this was a realistic risk (although it wouldn't have been the stairwell and I would have made sure the finding would have been somewhat less traumatic).

I'm all for happiness chemicals and I wave that rainbow flag right back at you, no matter that whatever my neighbour and I are doing looks perfectly straight from the outside!

 

[Antje77]

Sex is exercise. Exercise affects our BG for up to 48 hours.
Thankfully, I take flexible basal rather than ultra long insulin like Tresiba. Therefore, I reduce my basal (nothing to do with bolus) for two days.
If I was on more rigid basal, I would need to reduce bolus AND feed my excess basal.

I fully agree.
Except in my case, the sexual bits really are too small to count as exercise so it must be something else.

 

[Grant_Vicat]

It's a bit of an uncomfortable question but I'm still going to ask because I can't think of a likely cause.
Usually I'm pretty good at working out what makes my diabetes behave in unusual ways, but this one has me baffled, so now I'm curious if others have experienced a similar thing, or if any of you can come up with a likely explanation.
Please ignore if you disapprove of the concept of 'friends with benefits'.

Long story to paint a picture where you may notice something I have missed.

My neighbour lives in a trailer in my garden, and we sometimes share a meal, build a fire in the garden, do some drinking, or work together on something around the house.
Some two months ago we had one of those fire and drinking nights, and to our own surprise we ended up sharing the bed in his trailer. Very nice it was too, I hadn't shared a bed with anyone since long before diabetes and he hadn't either in a long time. I hadn't realised how much I'd missed some skin on skin contact so it was a welcome surprise.
Since then, we've usually shared drinks and a bed once a week, lots of cuddling, nothing wild enough to count as 'exercise' to make my BG drop.

Almost every single time I've had to prevent or treat hypos during the night and early morning, even if my last bolus was over 10 hours ago, which makes me think it's a basal issue. Very strange, in my 7+ years of insulin, I've never had issues with nighttime lows, no matter what foods, drinks or activity I had, so they only happen in this very specific situation.
My basal needs do fluctuate a bit, but definitely not to this extent.

My eating and activity patterns are quite erratic, sometimes my evening meal is my first meal of the day, sometimes my third, some days are spent mainly on the couch,on other days I'm very active, main meal can be at 7 pm or at 10:30 pm, I go to sleep anywhere between 11:30 pm and 5 am, and none of this is an issue with my diabetes management. So I don't see how some slightly different 'routine' when sleeping with my neighbour can make such a big difference.

I'm a regular drinker and know how to dose for my drinks while keeping a straightish line. Yes, alcohol has been involved on those nights as well, but this is not unusual and it doesn't drop me when I sleep at home or at work.
So even though alcohol is a well known cause for nighttime hypos, I don't think this is the issue here either.

Something that is different is my midnight snacking habits.
At home, I tend to eat some chicory and hummus or pork schratchings with aioli, or both, right before bed. With my neighbour, I don't.
But 3 weeks ago I had a bit of an experiment, and I did go home to eat my usual midnight snack before returning to my neighbour to see if it would make a difference. It didn't, I still went low.

Two weeks ago I ate some of his chocolate easter eggs before bed to prevent a hypo (lots of carbs for somone usually eating low carb), and still had to treat with winegums and more chocolate 3 times during the night.

On friday (see graph) I initially went low shortly after midnight, right before bed. Last bolus had been at 8:15 pm, so this could well have been the tail of my mealtime dose. By now I expect to go low when I'm there, so I ate a substantial amount of crisps (very long and slow acting carbs) to see me through the night.
It only raised me to 6.5 before dropping again at around 3 am, long after my last bolus should have been active.
I treated with a winegum and more crisps, which worked for another 4.5 hours, after which I silenced the alarm, being still at 3.8 and sick of getting out of bed. Until 10:30, when symptoms became apparent so I got up and treated.

So what am I missing here?
It just doesn't seem to make sense. Usually, a single winegum or less is enough to treat a hypo for me.

There is another possibility but I thought it very unlikely: Can it be that feeling completely safe and relaxed lowers my insulin need? I mean, I like my own bed as well, but sleeping snuggled up against a warm and friendly body does add quite a lot to my feeling of wellbeing.

View attachment 67177

What a beautiful post to read, even with the conundrum!

 

[Melgar]

Animals have done and are still doing a very good job in keeping me reasonably happy, and I'm pretty sure that without my animals I would have ended things years ago.
Neighbour mentioned just that the other day. He told me that 6 or 7 years ago, he and his girlfriend at the time (a very good friend of mine, although we fell out of touch by now) discussed just exactly how great the risk was of one day finding me in the stairwell. They were correct in thinking this was a realistic risk (although it wouldn't have been the stairwell and I would have made sure the finding would have been somewhat less traumatic).

I'm all for happiness chemicals and I wave that rainbow flag right back at you, no matter that whatever my neighbour and I are doing looks perfectly straight from the outside!

If I could send you multiple hearts I would

 

[Lamont D]

I'm not going to answer your behaviour or how to 'treat ' the 'exercise '.
I'm going to join the theory of its endorphins and the rush of having a response to the stimulation.
I picking my words carefully here!

You may have read from other threads, how important insulin is. How it is necessary to deal with the glucose derived from either food or from the liver....
Add on, imagine if you have a cold or if you have an infection. What other hormones interact, released, which includes a liver dump, adrenaline, cortisol, and many others. As someone said, you are having..........
Exercise!
And how your body reacts from the exercise, probably ends in a hypo.

It has happened to me.

Unless you want to wake up every so often and have another treat
Or stay awake a bit longer and have more treats.
Or go celebate. Not your first choice, I know.
It will be another learning curve.
Or it could be, a sexperiment!

If you enjoy it, why worry about something like a side effect from the sexercise?

Relax and enjoy.

So much fun!!!!!!

 

[Zhnyaka]

Therefore, I reduce my basal (nothing to do with bolus) for two days.

Two days after? or how does it work? Do you always plan sex? I mean, it's often something spontaneous when you just want to. Of course, there are dates when you know exactly how it will end and then you can adjust the dose in the morning... but what to do with spontaneous episodes? For example, if I'm used to injecting insulin in the evening, and sex happens in the morning? If sex, for example, 2 times a week, then it turns out that half a week one dose of basal and half a week another?

 

[Antje77]

What a beautiful post to read, even with the conundrum!

Thank you!
I was really apprehensive about posting. Highly intimate information but also a real diabetic riddle I wanted input on. And there are some cultural differences between my country and the UK, making it difficult to gauge what is and isn't 'done', expecially with the 'retired mod' flag to my name and casual sex/cuddling not being accepted by everyone.

If I could send you multiple hearts I would

I think you just did!

 

[Deleted member 527103]

Two days after? or how does it work? Do you always plan sex? I mean, it's often something spontaneous when you just want to. Of course, there are dates when you know exactly how it will end and then you can adjust the dose in the morning... but what to do with spontaneous episodes? For example, if I'm used to injecting insulin in the evening, and sex happens in the morning? If sex, for example, 2 times a week, then it turns out that half a week one dose of basal and half a week another?

I was referring to exercise In general.
However, most of my exercise is unplanned but because the basal reduction is for up to 2 days after that is not a problem because I don’t need to plan.
As I tend to exercise 4 times a week, I am often using my exercise basal dose. I have been doing this for nearly 20 years and have never had a problem with multiple basal rates. In fact, given I have a pump and suspend it when exercising and increase it when stressed, I have more than two basal patterns in use each week.