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Dr Jason Fung mauled by impeccable logic of Calorie Restriction fans...

Discussion in 'Low-carb Diet Forum' started by pdmjoker, Jul 14, 2019.

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  1. ATZ

    ATZ · Well-Known Member

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    Oh my, someone who overate junk got fat and ill? Shock!

    how about the guy who proved supersize me was nothing more than "junk" science? Eating McDonald's for 6 months straight, losing weigh and in the process improving all his health parameters?

    https://www.businessinsider.com/how-to-lose-weight-eating-only-mcdonalds-2015-10

    Overeating any food will make you fat and ill.
     
    #281 ATZ, Jul 18, 2019 at 4:54 PM
    Last edited: Jul 18, 2019
  2. Resurgam

    Resurgam Type 2 (in remission!) · Expert

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    At diagnosis I was walking - and I use that term for want of anything more accurate, with two sticks, fearful of falling and full of grief. Last Tuesday I was practicing a step hop morris dance and keeping pace with the Hobos - a local side which is not known for its laid back attitude to pace. I am 68 years old.
    All the argument or insults or 'this happened to these people' possible will never convince me that I do not feel a lot younger, more cheerful, more vigorous, more flexible and entirely more joyful simply by eating a diet which has a maximum of 40 gm of carb a day.
     
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  3. Guzzler

    Guzzler Type 2 · Master

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    So, an anecdote quoted by you is science but one from me is worthy of dismissal?

    The reason that anyone can overeat on ice cream is down to fructose, we are evolutionarily conditioned to gorge on fructose when available (see famine/ feast) but the problem is that it is never winter in these modern times, there is never famine - pretty hard to have a roast dinner full of proteins and fats and then eat more protein but if one is offered ice cream all of a sudden 'there's room'.
     
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  4. Jim Lahey

    Jim Lahey I reversed my Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    I don’t agree that being overweight per se is unhealthy. Body fat is simply stored energy. What is unhealthy is intraorganic fat and metabolic syndrome caused by hyperinsulinemia.
     
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  5. 1spuds

    1spuds Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Nutritionist rate right up with American Heart IMO....based on Keyes.Diabetes experts based on American Hearts' very poor humongously damaging diet advice.Then we got Dieticians piggy backing on both.

    Look at crowds from 1970,a few slightly overweight.Fast forward to today,obese everywhere,slender people the exception. What changed?EXTREMELY bad dietary advice.It was not that adults suddenly became sedentary in that time period.Vilify fat,worship carbs and sugars.That was the change.

    Thats where the 'experts' in various medical disciplines have taken us .

    Thats history.Thank goodness,after 50-60 years of horrendous dietary advice its finally changing.I just read some philosopher that asked....when does bad science change when new better science comes along? ONLY when they die off.Paraphrased,but thats the upshot.
     
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  6. HSSS

    HSSS Type 2 (in remission!) · Well-Known Member

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    Could you provide another link to this info please. This goes to a Utube that doesn’t give fasting glucose or insulin results and the website he states the results are on has expired.
     
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  7. ATZ

    ATZ · Well-Known Member

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    Strawman argument, I've never stated that.

    Calories are the global permissive, but food quality also counts. It doesn't invalidate CICO that different nutrients have different hormonal effects in the body.

    But thanks to well contorlled studies we know that where protien intakes are equal, manipulating the % of carbs or fat in your diet has zero impact on results:

    "In August of 2015, NIH researcher Kevin Hall published a rigorous study on carb intakes and weight loss. Its design was the gold standard of fat loss trials: the participants were kept in a metabolic ward; their diets were controlled exactly.

    In their typical simplistic fashion, media outlets reported the study results as “Low-carb doesn’t work!” or even “Low-carb worse than low fat!” Actually analyzing the study, however, draws a much less dramatic picture.

    What the study really did is take a first step in testing the so-called “Carbohydrate-Insulin Theory of Obesity”, which points to carbs and insulin being the major factor behind weight gain. It tested a lower-carb diet (140 g/day isn’t low-carb but is lower-carb compared to the typical diet) against a super-low-fat diet (17 g/day) and found similar rates of fat loss.

    There was no magic fat loss advantage in lowering carbs, even though insulin was indeed reduced. Low-carb advocates cried foul: the study wasn’t even close to being low-carb (usually less than 50 g/day). So the researchers, funded by a pro-low-carb organization, did a follow-up study at ketogenic levels. There again, however, they could attribute no fat loss advantage to the low-carb diet. Low-carb advocates were incensed, and Kevin Hall replied back to criticism repeatedly."

    Full article with links to the studies: https://examine.com/nutrition/3-examples-of-fakenews-from-the-world-of-nutrition-research/
     
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  8. 1spuds

    1spuds Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    And metabolism has zero effect? Not hardly.And eating massive amts of sugar is healthy?No,it isnt.
     
  9. Walking Girl

    Walking Girl Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    The mental health condition causes the food restriction, but the biological response to that restriction is the exactly same, so it can absolutely be compared.

    After weight loss, I returned to what all CICO calculators tell me is “normal” - actually a bit above, and have not regained any weight. I eat when I’m hungry stop when I’m satisfied. I do not track any macronutrient, much less “carbs”. If people want to consider that unsustainable or as always being on a diet...well OK...
     
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  10. 1spuds

    1spuds Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    CICO has no basis in a healthy body.Saying X weight means you are healthy is nonsense.I will stick to eating a nutritious balanced diet,understanding all calories are NOT the same.Not in,and not out.Pecs and Lats do not define health by a long shot.

    Guess Im not allowed to refer to your 'expert' status either,though you promote it.

    Im done.
     
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    #290 1spuds, Jul 18, 2019 at 5:04 PM
    Last edited: Jul 18, 2019
  11. ATZ

    ATZ · Well-Known Member

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    Great so you reduced your calorie intake and lost weight. Well done!
     
  12. Guzzler

    Guzzler Type 2 · Master

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    Was this Hall's Two week crossover study? The one that was found NOT to be low carb? Apples to Oranges.

    See Virta Studies results for last two years, see DCUKs results.
     
  13. HSSS

    HSSS Type 2 (in remission!) · Well-Known Member

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    But were these participants diabetic?

    There is no mention of diabetes or blood glucose or insulin in the study. Most studies deselect participants with disease such as diabetes so there is a good chance they were not diabetic with damaged metabolism.

    And yet again I say this is the point you keep ignoring. And this is why we advocate low carb over any other weight loss. Because in our specific situation it makes a difference and is more effective.
     
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  14. ATZ

    ATZ · Well-Known Member

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    Biggest difference between now and the 70s? We eat more and move less.[​IMG]
     
  15. Resurgam

    Resurgam Type 2 (in remission!) · Expert

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    No, I actually doubled my calories, but I didn't bother to mention it as they are irrelevant in my case.
     
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  16. 1spuds

    1spuds Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    No.We eat more energy dense processed nutritionally bereft **** foods now than ever.
     
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  17. Dark Horse

    Dark Horse · Well-Known Member

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    That's not at all the way it appeared to me.
     
  18. ATZ

    ATZ · Well-Known Member

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    Did you actually read the link?

    Hall repeated the low carb trial (140g pf carbs per day) with a ketogenic trial.

    No difference in results.
     
  19. ATZ

    ATZ · Well-Known Member

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    @HSSS did you read the link about the Kempner diet I posted earlier?

    A diet high in carbs that was hugely effective for treating overweight diabetics. You do not need special treatment to lose weight.
     
  20. 1spuds

    1spuds Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Of course.
     
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