Ok, in a quest for fairness. For most CICO probably works well... to some degree. strictly speaking it should work everytime, yet the slimming clubs keep getting repeat bookings. (i read the memorials on here, and hear my wife and friends endlessly discussing why so and so diet failed, ..oh sweetie you need to the XYZ diet..it's FABULOUS " ) and the obesity epidemic seems to know no bounds. So for me and many others, the advice from doctors is CICO. eat less move more...nice and simple..or so it would seem. yet for many who follow that advise, the disease progresses and the complications horrific, yet most general practitioners insist it's the ONLY method. a good case in point IS our doctor unwin. (and others of course) who after years of the same old advise ...saw the same old results. He awoke one day to see another avenue and pursued it. his patients improved, his results speak for themselves. (google him, if you are unaware who he is ) Now pure basic CICO...for those metabolically challenged, just doesn't tick all the boxes we COULD cut calories and still get sicker and not lose weight, because we eat the wrong foods. . and as many can testify they have cut calories and didn't lose weight, ( regardless of how much you expect them to,....) So did they not cut enough calories, did they not exercise enough, OR was it the foods they ate and the fact they are metabolically damaged in some way ? because the weight loss never happened. yet those same people too stupid and lazy to follow a simple diet, come on here in there number, follow the diets others have posted AND lose significant weight, and sustain it, THAT speaks for itself. Something, is wrong with your pure interpretation on CICO for all, if that happened. Many on here, myself included, now prefer to use the Low Carb, better Fats, some will go on to use the higher fat content in LCHF, or go Full KETO. But none of them can say they use pure CICO. Very few would just be cutting down on what they USED to eat, and moving more then they did Because for those of us damaged in this way, the FOODS themselves carry more importance then the Calorific content on the packet. In the ND diet is 800 calories, i'd expect people to lose weight on that regime, but to sustain that for life until they die..Not really doable. That why the next step at the end of the diet, is some sort of other diet, and if your T2D, then the carbs element in LCHF, is where you are going to be headed if you want to retain some good health,. Because going back to the foods you USED to eat, thinking CICO will keep you safe, just brings you back to where you started, overweight AND with above normal blood sugars, with all the dangers that implies. So while the CICO, might make good sense to the young, healthy and undamaged. the truth for this forum is many can't just CICO, the abilities you list are not there in sufficient numbers for us to utilise, store or extract the goodness of many foods, without some damage to ourselves. Could we lose weight with just CICO..perhaps but at a serious health cost and unlikely unsustainable in the long term. Could we lose weight with LCHF..read the many, many signatures not only doable, BUT sustainable day by day, week by week, year by year, and please god... decade by decade.