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Driving Licence Suspended

Discussion in 'Driving and DVLA' started by martynlloydkelly, Apr 17, 2013.

  1. donnellysdogs

    donnellysdogs Type 1 · Master

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    Mark...

    So many people do NOT like to speak out about dvla and licences etc because they are too afraid of being identified and causing them probs for renewing their licences etc.....

    I speak out.. Because I have also been through **** with dvla.... Don't forget they ask for your email addresses etc... Mine is easily traceabke just from my lig on name here.... And others will be the same.

    I am hypo aware, I had a s**t time with dvla proving it.. And know that my previous DSN told me she read my posts...

    So, its hard, so hard... For everybody to fight this battle openly...

    Dvla and the givernment are acting on their interpretations only... As are other countries.. Of the EU directive.... Ours is being interpreted very, very badly.

    I hope that we can all join forces to get this challenged... I would certainly stand with OP at no10 chained to railings( i i have a pump-lol) so would have my remote control in one hand and a banner in the other!!

    I kept my licence, with a huge battle but made a huge, fantastic friend from here along the way!! She supported me for all my battles in last 3 years.. Not only diabetes. Support here is great, hope we can get further support for Martyn.....
     
  2. onthegow

    onthegow · Well-Known Member

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    Petition signed and reposted on Facebook. This is outrageous. Time to change things not discriminate.
     
  3. tigger

    tigger Type 1 · Well-Known Member

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    Hi

    I had the same experience last year. It's because they changed the question from hypos while awake to all hypos. As I pointed out I don't routinely get up in my sleep, start the car and go out for a drive. If I did a hypo would probably be the least of my problems...... although I'm sure the roads are emptier then..

    I eventually got it back a number of months later when my consultant wrote a letter confirming that these had occurred because I was pregnant with my twins and had stopped since they had been born.

    I spoke to IDDT and they said that they were campaigning to try and get the question changed because they felt it was unclear and unfair. I've signed your petition but would recommend calling them.

    Good luck with getting it back, it was a really horrible feeling being without it and I got very depressed at being unable to get anywhere outside of walking distance as double buggies do not easily go on the buses round here when they deign to turn up.
     
  4. donnellysdogs

    donnellysdogs Type 1 · Master

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    Tigger
    Glad you got it back... Cant imagine getting a double buggy on a bus!!! Must have been an awful time for you.
    Hope you now got your twins expliring the delughts of a car...
     
  5. mo1905

    mo1905 Type 1 · BANNED

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    Super thread here ! A wrong tick in the box means nothing to DVLA. To the individual though, difference between employment or unemployment.


    Sent from the Diabetes Forum App
     
  6. Covlocks

    Covlocks · Member

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    I think Will be a contravertial here. You ticked the box saying you had 2 hypo's requiring assistance. As far as the DVLA guidelines are concerned they are averting a situation where you could be driving, can not rectify the problem yourself, and could cause an incident. There should be clear guidelines for the initial decision, and there are - if that box is ticked the initial answer is no. But, as they rightly say, you can now go to the next stage and get your GP involved. So before you raise petitions etc, go to the appeal stage.
     
  7. Diddly

    Diddly Type 1 · Well-Known Member

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    Covlocks,
    Hi, so I assume you believe the dvla form is correct and that if you have 2 nocturnal hypos within 12 months that your licence should be revoked, also potentially costing you your livelihood and your home/accommodation. Really!

    Sent from the Diabetes Forum App
     
  8. redsilverdog

    redsilverdog · Newbie

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    The real danger here is that people who depend on driving (most of us)for whatever reason will not report Hypo's to their GP's or DB Nurses.There is also the possibility that others will not answer the DVLA forms honestly and could then become a real danger to themselves and other road users.
    The DVLA have to recognise that most of us are sensible people who take our health and the lives of others very seriously.

    Wake up and smell the Humalog DVLA. We want to lead normal lives and not continue to be discriminated against by government bodies.
     
  9. martynlloydkelly

    martynlloydkelly · Active Member

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    Hello everybody!

    Wow, there's been a lot of replies since I last posted yesterday I'll try to get through them all here, this may be a long post so bear with me!

    Hi, Smidge :) Thank you so much for signing and for the support, especially for passing the petition onto another forum! If possible could you let me know the address of that site so that I can correspond with people there too? The 1/2/3 year licences are issued so that your diabetes control can be reviewed at regular intervals. This allows the DVLA to assess whether or not you are still fit to drive from a medical standpoint. I can see the point in the restricted licences as there certainly are cases where the control of a diabetic over their condition worsens over time causing them to become a potential threat on the roads when they may not have been previously. Infact, the idea of restricted licences for ALL drivers may not be such a bad idea as the number of older drivers I've seen potentially causing or causing accidents is incredible. It seems like a lot of these people develop bad habits or forget basic rules of the road reducing their fitness to drive.

    Hi Ann, thank you for your signature and support! This is where we need to be careful, I've said since the day I started the petition (and I've gone on record saying this in the TV interview I did) that, if I was to have a severe hypo in the daytime I would surrender my licence immediately as I would be putting the lives of others at serious risk. However, if you have a severe hypo in the night time then I would not class this in the same way as the DVLA do and by all means, don't tick the box if this is the case.

    Hi, Mick! Thank you so much for the support and for sharing your experience, it goes to prove my point above about not lying on the form if you are aware that the DVLA does not distinguish between conscious and unconscious hypos. I really hope that things work out for the best for you and for your sensibility regarding the issue. P.S. don't worry about the X's, I get them in texts from male friends at times, I treat it more as a mark of respect :)

    Thank you for the signature, share and kind words, its people like yourself that I really hope that this petition works for. The prospect of losing your licence due to an incorrect stance taken by the DVLA is terrible, I really hope that you don't get into the same situation I am in. Luckily you're aware of the issue before its impacted you!

    Hi Andrew40, what you're saying is correct from a medical standpoint however the DVLA choose not to distinguish between conscious and unconscious hypos and as Diddly pointed out, this is the whole motivation behind the petition. The fact is, you shouldn't have to go and consult your diabetic specialist nurse/consultant, the form should be worded as such to make the distinction clear and the distinction itself should be recognised by the DVLA.

    Hi, rontom89. Your attitude towards this is exactly why the form and the DVLA's decision to not distinguish between conscious and unconscious hypos is detrimental rather than beneficial. People should inform the DVLA if they have a severe hypo whilst conscious as you're conscious when driving (I hope) so it could happen again and that poses a serious threat to other motorists/pedestrians. Not telling them about this puts people's lives at risk so the form ends up potentially facilkitating what it wants to avoid: deaths on the road due to severe hypo unawareness whilst conscious.

    Hi Ernest jones. Thank you for the information, I'm currently in the process of doing this now. I'm meeting with my consultant on Friday to determine how to fill the form out this time around. Nightmare!

    Hi, Ceejaypb. Many thanks for your signature, support and well wishes. I realise that this is the case so I rectified the petition the other day so that it applies to all diabetics so you are included too!

    Hi, Riri. Many, many thanks, your support is much appreciated. If you get a chance do try and share the petition somehow as the more exposure it gets the better for all of us!

    Hi, Mark. I don't think your question pertains to the thread however I'll try to clarify what I know about hypos and blood sugars in general. Blood sugar levels less than 4mmols are generally considered to be too low due to basic human biology, your brain needs a certain amount of glucose to operate correctly and its generally agreed that blood sugars less than 4mmols do not provide the brain with enough "fuel" to work correctly. Therefore, you're more than likely to experience a loss in concentration which could severely affect your ability to drive. The DVLA aren't asking you to maintain high blood sugar levels (which would almost certainly have a detrimental impact upon the things you mention) but rather they're asking for people to declare if they have severe hypos (its their lack of distinction between conscious and unconscious hypos which causes a problem). Constant blood glucose monitoring would be the next logical step forward for the DVLA but they are pricey (as far as I'm aware) as they are relatively new. I don't believe that you can obtain one through the NHS but I may be wrong (I've never enquired). I think the last suggestion you make may be overkill as all the DVLA need to do is recognise the distinction between conscious and unconscious hypos and then make sure that they mention this clearly on the DIAB1 application form.

    Hi, lambros6. Thank you for sharing your story and for your support. Unfortunately, I've heard this all too often since starting the petition and its the ambiguity of the DVLA which is making the lives of diabetics a misery (as demonstrated in your story). If medical professionals are making mistakes too then something needs to change! I'm not surprised that a lot more diabetics have had their licences revoked as the wording on the form isn't clear and the DVLA's standpoint with regards to all of this is too myopic.

    Thanks onthegow, glad you agree! The support is much appreciated as is your signature and share :D

    Hi, tigger. Thank you for the support and for the story, sounds like you agree with the petition wholeheartedly! Who are the IDDT? It sounds like they'd be interested in the petition and would be a good group to link up with! I'm glad to hear that you got your licence back especially seeing as you have children :D Your story goes to highlight the issues that are incurred by people when their licences are unfairly suspended due to the non-distinction between conscious and unconscious hypos by the DVLA.

    Thank you, mo1905. What you say is absolutely correct and I completely agree. As I said earlier, the petition is designed mostly for people whose livelihoods would be adversely affected by the decisions taken by the DVLA.

    Hi, Covlocks. OK, I've had this issue raised by others in the past so allow me to clarify my position with regards to this. I did indeed sign the relevant tickox however, the text accompanying the box itself does not distinguish between conscious and unconscious hypos. Furthermore, the DVLA state that they consider each application on an individual basis which they do not: if you tick the box, you lose your licence, that doesn't sound like a consideration of individual cases to me. I've also been told by my own consultant that, when people who have their licences revoked under this legislation, the DVLA (in the majority of cases) do not re-issue the licence following a reapplication, even though the application is backed by solid medical arguments (from medical professionals). My argument is that the DVLA's actions are inconsistent with their statements and they do not recognise medical facts. I've raised the petition because I am all too aware of how these situations play out and frankly, the appeals process shouldn't even exist. The legislation imposed should take into account medical facts, instead the current legislation appears to be based upon paranoia resulting from a misunderstanding of a complex condition that affects a significant number of drivers in the UK. Its for those reasons that the peition was created, if you would like me to clarify further then please let me know and I would be more than happy to oblige.

    Hi, redsilverdog. First of all, I would like to point out that I completely agree with you here (see above) and secondly, I love the pun. Thank you for your support :)

    I apologise for the length of this reply but I endeavour to write each of you back individually as you have taken the time to write to me :) Also, I wish to thank donnelysdogs and Diddly for supporting the petition so wholeheartedly! I haven't responded to you guys directly as it appears that you have been attempting to help me out by responding to others so for that, thank you very much :D

    The amount of signatures on the peition has grown at a ferocious rate over the weekend so thank you all very much for your efforts, I really do appreciate it! Lets keep this up, at this rate we'll let both the DVLA and EU know that we feel strongly about this argument and that we won't let them discriminate against diabetics unfairly and based upon a complete lack of understanding and medical evidence.

    Thank you all once again and keep it up, your efforts have been amazing so far!

    Best,

    - Martyn
     
  10. tigger

    tigger Type 1 · Well-Known Member

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    Hi Martyn

    These are IDDT http://iddt.org/ they are a great organisation who were formed by a group of people many years ago who felt that certain other representative bodies were a little too influenced by drug company money. Their prime mission is campaigning for all types of insulin to remain available but they also campaign on any other issues that affect our lives. I often find out essential information from their newsletters that the hospital has failed to pass on.

    I do agree that there needs to be controls on people with insulin driving as the impact of driving while having a hypo are just as bad if not worse as drink driving. However the old form just stated that you had to tick for conscious hypos which is fair enough. As said if you're driving while unconscious then a hypo is likely to be the least of your problems! I also think you have to credit people with a bit of common sense and personal responsibility. I have had times while pregnant and on very tight control that I have voluntarily not driven or not more than very small distances because of the ups and downs I've been experiencing. I don't feel that I have to report that to the DVLA because I have made the sensible decision to abstain until I feel confident that I can drive without worrying in the way that you don't report to the DVLA every time you have a drink and DON'T drive.

    I think the research, if any, on which the night assisted hypos is based should be looked at very carefully.

    Good luck with your campaign!
     
  11. Suz1

    Suz1 · Newbie

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    I have just signed your petition. Thank you for setting this up. My husband is type 1 and is a HGV driver. He had his HGV licence taken off him 4 years ago but thankfully got it back last year due to the UK having to align with European law. However we live on a knife edge due to the current DVLA requirements as there is no leeway to explain episodes of hypoglycaemia. Diabetics are losing their livelihoods due to these ridiculous requirements which in turn is leading to more unemployment, reliance on benefits and contributing to the recession. the Government needs to stand up and take a closer look at this. Thanks again for raising this awareness.
     
  12. ptrmet

    ptrmet Type 2 · Newbie

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    I'm not sure whether this has gone through - here it is again....

    I have just signed the petition. I am appalled that the DVLA have the ability to interpret the rules as they see fit. Not only is this a reflection on their attitude but also on badly worded rules. I wrotre to Martin Cullen (editor) of Diabetes UK in September 2011 to voice my concerns about the possibility of the DVLA going 'rogue' and I was assured that my concerns were shared. Diabetes UK had se up meetrings with the Department of Transport to take up a number of issues which diabetics had identified. A petition was also started by6 a member of Diabetes UK on the government website - http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/14125. It is evident that not much progress has been made! I also wrote to my MP who indicated that the matter would be taken up.

    All diabetics must keep up the pressure to get fair, clear and concise rules which are not based on EU directives and which do not depend upon the whim of some unknown beaurocrat in Swansea

    It is all the more relevant since I have just sent off the papers for the renewal of my licence. I have been driving for over 50 years of which 22 I have been a type 2 diabetic. I have never had a hypo necessitating third party assistance and as far as I am aware iIU have never had a hypo during the night. Nevertheless your experience fills me full of terror that my application will be rejected even though I am sure there are no rational grounds for this decision.

    Good luck in your appeals.

    ptrmet
     
  13. hello2uleeds

    hello2uleeds · Member

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    i feel so annoyed reading your situation. I have held my licence for many many years and would feel exactly the same as you! good luck in your quest and you also have my support i can only advise along the same lines as everyone else...good luck
     
  14. djelliott

    djelliott · Newbie

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    I live in the states, Illinois. Here is the rule in the states:

    Has the state adopted specific policies about whether people with diabetes are allowed to drive?
    No. Illinois generally relies on physician recommendations in making licensing decisions. The state has no specific guidelines relating to diabetes other than its guidelines relating to episodes of loss of consciousness.

    I'd live in the sprawling suburbs and can't imagine doing without a car. I also wake up to a low blood sugar count occasionally, but its easily solved by BREAKFAST.

    Good luck to your efforts and keep the pressure up. Don't you just hate mindless bureaucrats?
     
  15. CollieBoy

    CollieBoy Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    A Tautology here surely :lol: :lol: :lol:
     
  16. LemonTree

    LemonTree · Well-Known Member

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    I am probably going to get shot down in flames for this one but I can't say I blame the DVLA for revoking your licence. If you tick the box that says you had more than 1 hypo where you needed assistance then it doesn't matter to them when it was - you needed help and that's too high a risk to allow someone to continue driving. I suppose their thinking is that if you had a hypo and needed help then you probably weren't aware you were having a hypo. I don't know about anyone else, I can only speak for myself but I wake up when I have a hypo, never had a severe one and I have never needed assistance.

    I have known someone get done by the police for driving dangerously because they weren't looking after their diabetes. I think he was having a hypo at the time and was done under medical reasons. His driving licence was taken away.

    Looking after yourself, injecting, eating is all very personal and your own responsibility so it must be difficult for the DVLA to judge whether a person is fit to drive or not just by filling out a form but they do have to limit it - just like alcohol use has a limit for driving.

    If, as the Diabetes.co.uk website currently has plastered all over it's main page, only 1 in 5 people have their diabetes under control, I do understand DVLA being strict with their licence renewals. It could cost lives.
     
  17. tigger

    tigger Type 1 · Well-Known Member

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    Lemontree

    The problem with your argument is that for years the question only applied to hypos while conscious i.e loss of hypo symptoms to the extent that you needed help to treat which absolutely is an issue if you're driving. Recently the question was changed to cover when you're asleep. Hypos while asleep are very different to when awake. Have you ever woken up with an unexplained high reading in the morning? If so the chances are that you may have suffered from something caused dawn phenomenon where you go hypo when you sleep but your body corrects it while releasing glycogen. Is that your fault? Could you have prevented it? Sometimes either because of hormones, very tight control, miscalculating a night time dose or just sheer randomness you may end up with a night hypo that requires assistance. To lose your driving licence despite all efforts you have made to keep control during the day and when the night hypo is not affecting your daytime control, is frankly very unfair.

    Obviously there will be people ticking these boxes because of control issues but to ban those who have no day time issue and are paying close attention to their control is very very unfair.

    Driving is a privilege and a responsibility that most of society take for granted. Yes we have to think carefully and test before getting behind a wheel but we shouldn't be penalised on unfair grounds. And the current test on the dvla form is unfair.
     
  18. Diddly

    Diddly Type 1 · Well-Known Member

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  19. Inthesky

    Inthesky · Newbie

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    Hi All, I do apologies if I post my first ever comment in the wrong place........I'm kinda at a loss having received DVLA notification last week that my driving licence has been revoked. I certainly appreciate driving is a privilege and not a right, more so now than ever, however I don't know what steps need to be taken to hasten up a reversal of the decision made. The reason given was that as I had not had a hypo within the last 12 months I was technically unaware of the symptoms and therefore not fit to drive ! a quick double dose of insulin can fix that situation in around 20 mins so the decision just doesn't make sense. I wasted the time of my GP, who is great btw, by booking appointments to clear his diary so he could call into the dvla medical team between the opening times of 10am to 1pm. Once a call had taken place my GP also faxed directly to the medical team a statement on my hypo awareness and fitness to drive.

    What else do I need to do? dvla call centre team read of a script and appear to be blissfully unaware of the life changing implications their letter has had on myself and my family - I appreciate I'm possibly being over dramatic but after no sleep since last week I've hit the panic button. DVLA are telling me they are working on medical cases from Jan 2013. Surely they can't take that long? Am I just being unrealistic to think that my anxiety on the phone will result in a quick response?

    If I've missed any steps I would certainly appreciate guidance.

    Thanks in advance.
     
  20. donnellysdogs

    donnellysdogs Type 1 · Master

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    Hi

    I'm so sorry to hear that you have had your licence revoked because you ticked the box saying no hypos...

    I spoke to the dvla people a while back and they said to me that they would revoke licences if an insulin user said they had no hypo's.. For exatly the reason you said.. They are told that no hypo's means you are unaware when you are hypo and dont test your blood to check....

    I posted this warning a few times on here that I was told this, but I confess you are the 1stperson I have heard of that has experienced this.

    Are all your readings, every single one of them above 4.0? I have never been able to achieve this in a month let alone a year!!

    I think personally you have done everything that you can, its down to the dvla now whether they accept your doctors letter. The DVLA could ask your doctor to physically check 3 months of data on your blood machine if they wanted to be difficult, but hopefully they will accept your doctors letter.
     
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