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Exogenous Insulin question.

Discussion in 'Type 1 Diabetes' started by Guzzler, Dec 18, 2017.

  1. Guzzler

    Guzzler Type 2 · Master

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    The question has occurred to me recently during my quest to better understand the machinations of Diabetes.

    So, does exongenous insulin taken by those who have Type 1 Diabetes have the same 'fat storing drive' that those of Type 2 Diabetes experience whether they are on insulin or not? Is there, perhaps, a genetic reason why so many T1s are thin and slim and is it all connected/confounded in some way? TIA
     
  2. Boo1979

    Boo1979 Other · Well-Known Member

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  3. catapillar

    catapillar Type 1 · Well-Known Member

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    Personally, I think this is a nonsense question and a dangerous question on a type 1 forum.

    Type 1 diabetics need insulin to keep them alive. Diabulimia (insulin omission to avoid weight gain) is a recognised psychiatric condition causing significant diabetic complications and death many type 1s who believe the insulin makes you fat nonsense.

    Insulin doesn't make you fat. It keeps you alive. What you eat makes you fat. Insulin is the hormone that allows fat to be stored in the body, it doesn't create the fat to be stored - that comes from what you are putting in your mouth. Without insulin, fat cannot be stored and your body thinks you are starving and starts breaking down healthy tissue, turning your blood acidic and killing you.

    Perpetuating a myth that insulin makes you fat is deeply unhelpful on a type 1 forum where newly diagnosed type 1s will find themselves putting on weight. The weight they will be putting on is the weight they lost pre diagnosis, when they were starving to death. And believing in such a myth is likely to make newly diagnosed vulnerable type 1s reluctant to take their life saving medication.

    I believe that in type 2 diabetes it is purported that excess insulin causes weight gain. Type 1s don't take excess insulin, they take the required amount of insulin.
     
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  4. Guzzler

    Guzzler Type 2 · Master

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    Thank you. Insulin is known to drive fat storage especially on a 'high carb' western diet. It cannot all be down to water. I understand that the use of insulin by a person with T2 can drive up weight gain if their bg is managed poorly but as I see few, if any, of the people with T1 struggling with 3xcess weight I was wondering why the difference? Is it genetics or the fact that poorly managed bg in those who have T1 poses such an immediate threat that they tend to have better control? Just thinking out loud here.
     
  5. donnellysdogs

    donnellysdogs Type 1 · Master

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    For me, if I eat carbs like bread etc I gain weight easily...
    I was advised 2010 by some people to eat bread, toast etc and tried for 6 months... only time in my life I gained weight and went from 8/10 to 14/16....
    never again as it also led to other problems and I should never have been advised to change my lifestyle...
     
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  6. paulus1

    paulus1 Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    maybe its the other way round its the insulin intolerance thats the cause and not insulin.
     
  7. TheBigNewt

    TheBigNewt Type 1 · Well-Known Member

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    I think that's key. Type 1's ONLY get the insulin they inject (or they die eventually, as they all did before there was insulin to inject). Type 2's generally have more of their own insulin than they need, but not enough to normalize their glucose levels. They can trend towards being overweight, which is why some can lose weight and normalize their glucoses again. It's sensitivity to insulin that's their problem, not the lack of it. The pills help their own insulin either be secreted or to be used to move glucose into the cells out of the bloodstream. About the only thing we have in common is varying blood sugar levels. For different reasons. If we injected 100 units of Novorapid per meal like the 400 pound Type 2 I recently saw we'd gain weight like crazy to avoid being low. Right?
     
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  8. Gabrielle_Tai

    Gabrielle_Tai Type 1 · Well-Known Member

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    I heard from my doctor that insulin do make people gain weight (both in type 1 and 2) but type 1 like me cannot survive more than 2 days without insulin so i have two choice which is
    1) died young
    2) died old but fat ( if you eat less and exercise maybe the getting fat part can be avoided)
    So the choice is limited for type 1 , not sure for type 2 but from what i read a lot of people here( type 2) success of getting off insulin after going low carb and loss weight.
     
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  9. paulus1

    paulus1 Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    you doctor is a idiot. there is no need for you to die young or get fat. eating healthily even thou you can alter your insulin levels is the key. dont like some eat a very bad diet. cut sugars eat un processed food and more leafy veg. weight yourself monthly and be aware of the weight gain/loss. if insulin is a driver for fat production why would people dose themselves with more than they need. getting fat will make control more difficult. type 1s can and do reduce the amount of insulin by reducing the number of carbs. obviously you will never be off insulin but just eating what you fancy in the modern world is asking for trouble.
     
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  10. Art Of Flowers

    Art Of Flowers I reversed my Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    High glucose levels and high insulin levels are toxic and are the primary reasons why people with diabetes have shorter life expectancy. With type 2 diabetes there is typically insulin resistance which leads to high insulin levels being needed to process blood glucose. Treating type 2 with insulin or drugs which stimulate insulin resistance further exacerbates the high levels of insulin and can lead to increased all cause mortality despite lowering blood glucose. There is a "J" risk curve for mortality for type 2 diabetes treated with insulin with both high and low blood glucose being at high risk with the minimum risk having a HbA1C around 7.5%. The increased risk at lower average blood sugars is due to insulin toxicity. Jason Fung describes this in his online videos.

    Insulin does cause excess blood glucose to be stored as fat. People with type 1 diabetes can get insulin resistance also. This is known as Double Diabetes.
     
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  11. DaveTC

    DaveTC Type 1 · Active Member

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    I've had type 1 about 27 years now, my bmi is nearly high enough to count as obese, but I'm not fat. I have an active job and 2 children so I'm actually fairly muscular. I generally eat at least 3000 calories a day, sometimes over 5000 and my insulin requirements seem higher than quite a lot I see posting here.
    If you've no other issues than diabetes there's no reason you have to be fat, but like anyone else you'll need to maintain a healthy lifestyle.
     
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  12. Guzzler

    Guzzler Type 2 · Master

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    Just an FYI here, I am not an insulin user nor am I overweight. I was really just needing to understand better the workings of Diabetes. Thank you all for your comments, most enlightening.
     
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  13. Guzzler

    Guzzler Type 2 · Master

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    I was in no way perpetuating a myth, I asked a question. I thought it best to ask those who are most knowledgeable about insulin use in those who have Type 1 Diabetes.

    I understand that there are people with Diabetes who also have mental health issues surrounding foods, I have not suggested *advice* on how to lose weight whilst also having T1D. If you think my question nonsense or dangerous then report it with a view to having it removed.
     
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  14. novorapidboi26

    novorapidboi26 Type 1 · Well-Known Member

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    That's a good appetite there Dave....;)
     
  15. DaveTC

    DaveTC Type 1 · Active Member

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    It's hard work eating that much :D
     
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  16. Chowie

    Chowie Type 1 · Well-Known Member

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    I think there are many external factors. When I do a lot of exercise no real problems. When I stop (due to work sending me interstate for a few years, I really put on the kilos) especially with a company credit card for me to buy whatever food I want.
     
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  17. Crystalwand

    Crystalwand Type 1 · Well-Known Member

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    I thought it was an interesting question, me T1 40 years and counting, I only know my diabetes, and how I cope, eating problems over the years, now on low carb eating, and weight is now 53.5kg which I am pleased about, as a kid tried no insulin every other day to loose weight, please don't try that it is a stupid thing to do and really painful, low carb is the way to go, sorry went on a bit, still found the question and the answer very interesting, as I am here hope you all have a great Christmas and a very happy new year, look forward to all the questions next year X X X
     
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  18. paulus1

    paulus1 Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    yes please dont do that its very bad for your health. crystal you seem to have it sorted but 53kg is pretty healthy for most women try to be careful not to lose too much.
     
  19. Jaylee

    Jaylee Type 1 · Moderator
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    Hi,

    Interesting question.. Purely anecdotal from a personal angle.. My dad was a slim T2. I myself have maintained a slim frame with no effort, peaking in my teens & remaining the same nearly 30 years later. To date....
    At one point I was getting a little "ripped" (naturally due to the work I was doing at the time.) & still maintained an even weight...
     
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  20. EllieM

    EllieM Type 1 · Moderator
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    As I remember, when I first became diabetic (1970s) half of the diabetics were Type 1 and half Type 2. The "fat" ones were all Type 2 and the "thin" ones were all Type 1. I suspect an issue is the excessive amount of sugar in modern processed and takeaway food which means that a far greater number of people become overweight and Type 2, while since Type 1s were taught to "count their carbs" they avoided the high sugar processed stuff and were less likely to become overweight and insulin resistant.
    Lots of generalisations and simplifications there of course!:)
     
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