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Fasting-Mimicking Diet Promotes Ngn3-Driven β-Cell Regeneration to Reverse Diabetes

Discussion in 'Diabetes Discussions' started by Oldvatr, Feb 24, 2017.

  1. Thyroiddiabetic

    Thyroiddiabetic Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    But metformin kills cancer stem cells does it not?
     
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  2. Freema

    Freema Type 2 · Expert

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    I don't know in What way metformin lowers cancer ,
    Maybe it also hinders good functions in our body , my kidney sure are stressed from metformin and tried to pee out This Strange Chemical junk from my body so much I have sometimes to go up till 5 times to the toilet in one night, now I eat the whole dose early in the morning and have succeded in sleeping 2 whole nights without interruptions
     
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    #62 Freema, Mar 4, 2017 at 8:27 PM
    Last edited: Mar 5, 2017
  3. kokhongw

    kokhongw I reversed my Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Have not read very much on this, but this paragraph describing the systemic effect of metformin from the first article I come across seems surprisingly similar to fasting...
    Metformin in cancer prevention and therapy
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4200668/
    Also in Valter Longo's interview, there was a discussion on Metformin @1:00:00.

    Does Metformin increase Autophagy...pretty sure it does.
    His response 'Will I take metformin...absolutely not,'

    http://www.diabetes.co.uk/forum/threads/fasting-mimicking-diet-promotes-ngn3-driven-β-cell-regeneration-to-reverse-diabetes.116847/#post-1394601
     
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    #63 kokhongw, Mar 4, 2017 at 10:13 PM
    Last edited: Mar 5, 2017
  4. Mr Whippy

    Mr Whippy Type 1 · Active Member

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    I read the BBC article with interest on Monday, and of course it's always wise to take these things with a very big pinch of salt but I thought what the heck - I'll give it a go for one session and see if it results in a decrease in insulin requirements afterwards. After all what have I got to loose ? -

    Well about 1 stone for starters. :)

    No drugs and no cost involved to give it a try, and whenever I see the words "Do not try this at home" that's just a red rag to a bull for me.

    So I started on Tuesday, and today (Sat) is the last day. I already had a Libre sensor running when I decided to give it a go so that came in very handy as approx 1 1/2 days in my basal requirements dropped right off and I have ended up running the rest of the time on a 40% basal rate. (I'm guessing that's when I would have gone into fasting ketosis) If I hadn't had the libre CGM running then I would have landed myself in a hypo, which would have screwed the diet.

    I have checked blood ketones a few times and they seem to be averaging around 1.3

    Have been very surprised at the level of hunger, first couple of days hunger levels were a bit up and down, but never unbearable. Last three days hunger has been fairly minimal all the time (say around 3 out of 10)

    My typical food for a day - 1 avocado, a handful of mixed nuts, 1 black coffee, a few olives, a tomato or 1/4 cucumber. Kept it well within the calorie, carbs and protein guidelines.

    Tomorrow morning - first day of refeeding - Full English cooked breakfast (without the bread but a few sautéed sweet potato chunks):)

    So according to the paper and reading between the lines, if there's anything in it I should see a decrease in basal requirements after a few days back on normal eating. So I will wait and see.....

    Of course there will be a slight decrease anyway because there's 8 pounds less of me now than there was at the beginning of the week but if there's a major decrease in basal requirements then I will know that there is indeed something in it.

    As to how long any improvement may last who knows - I'm guessing the immune system will carry on attacking any new cells that may arrive. Anyway, the proof of the pudding etc.....

    Cheers - Dave.
     
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  5. Thyroiddiabetic

    Thyroiddiabetic Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Quite an article and nicely written/compiled
     
  6. Thyroiddiabetic

    Thyroiddiabetic Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    My kidneys are also feeling the stain too now from metformin .I probably could get by with a lower dose .
    There is a new metformin that I hear is on trial works only in the gut where metformin does most of the work but nobody seems to know about it.
     
  7. Freema

    Freema Type 2 · Expert

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    Will be interesting to follow your progress hope you succeed
     
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  8. Type1Bri

    Type1Bri Type 1 · Well-Known Member

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    Get tired of hearing the latest miracle cures, distorted into the "latest breakthrough" by the likes of the BBC and the daily fail.
    All this does is make type 0's think diabetes can be cured, leading to them assuming that it's not all that serious!!!
    https://type1bri.com/the-cure-again
     
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  9. Good work, Dave, and well done on your weight loss. Even if nothing else happens, at least you have tried. Looking forward to updates :)
     
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  10. Freema

    Freema Type 2 · Expert

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    if people do not keep looking for a possible cure, then we can be sure it will never be found, it is because of optimistic researchers that cures have been found in all ages and only very seldom by accident...
    actually I think type 1 will be the first diabetic disease to find a cure maybe by transplanting stemcells from the person her og him self grown outside of their body before being transplanted into the person again..

    hurrah for optimistic people pushing for and experimenting for solutions forever..
     
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  11. Type1Bri

    Type1Bri Type 1 · Well-Known Member

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    That type of cure is almost there, still doesn't cure T1D though as the auto immune response will simply attack and kill the new beta cells transplanted in.
    I fully agree research is essential and the cure will be found. It is the incessant media reporting that a cure has been found which bugs me. Every time a small step forward is found it is reported as "Cure to diabetes has been found" that is where my issue with it all lies.
     
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  12. kokhongw

    kokhongw I reversed my Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    That is probably why Valter Longo and others thinks his drug free approach is promising and worth pursuing...
    http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0303720717300552
    Nutrition and fasting mimicking diets in the prevention and treatment of autoimmune diseases and immunosenescence.
     
  13. Type1Bri

    Type1Bri Type 1 · Well-Known Member

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    Few issues with this argument
    1. We are not mice
    2. A fasting approach is not sustainable long term and effects our quality of life substantially.
    3. It isn't a cure it is a method of treatment, and we already have insulin as a treatment which doesn't really have the quality of life issues fasting does.
    4. Before discovery of insulin T1D approach was the Fasting method. Looking back at life expectancy from those times reveals that this probably isn't going to be the "cure" the media are making out that it is
     
  14. Mr Whippy

    Mr Whippy Type 1 · Active Member

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    Cheers.

    Weighed myself this morning - lost 8lbs in 5 days. However reading about others who have tried this (Google "Fasting mimicking diet" for more links) it seems likely that I will put a fair bit of it back on in the next month or so.

    However I think I've just eaten the best breakfast of my life !

    I have no great expectations from this but thought it's worth a shot as a one-off. If basal rates do need to come down substantially then I'll be surprised, (but at least it would prove part of the theory). If they stay down I'll be astounded but nothing ventured, nothing gained.

    Hey Kids ! - Don't try this at home !

    If anything of note occurs in the next month I'll post it back here.

    Dave.
     
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    #74 Mr Whippy, Mar 5, 2017 at 12:17 PM
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  15. Type1Bri

    Type1Bri Type 1 · Well-Known Member

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    Congrats on the weight loss Dave, great effort
     
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  16. Brunneria

    Brunneria Other · Moderator
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    Have you planned your re-feeding carefully?
    I saw a recent video that touched on the risks of refeeding after fasting, and it really made me think.
    Doesn't mean that fasting is bad, just that we should be considering the period AFTER fasting as just as important as the not-eating phase. Electrolyte balance, etc. etc. I will let the video explain further. The relevant bit is towards the end of the vid.

     
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  17. kokhongw

    kokhongw I reversed my Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    The researcher recognized that a fasting approach is not sustainable long term, hence the fasting micmiking diet to make the benefits/therapeutic effects of fasting more achievable for a wider group...also they seek to find/determine the number of cycles for fasting AND refeeding necessarily to restore normal insulin response and glucose levels.

    As usual it probably won't work for all. Until we gain deeper insights into the mechanism, it will prove invaluable for the few that may experience some therapeutic benefits from this in its current form...
     
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  18. Mr Whippy

    Mr Whippy Type 1 · Active Member

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    Thanks for that - It's a long vid so I only watched the last 1/4 - yes there was some mention that overdoing the feeding at first could be a bad thing, especially after a long fast. (way more than 5 days)

    Also I found a mention online the other day that Dr. Longo's ProLon diet instructions mention to take it easy at first when resuming your regular diet.

    I should have taken note of that - Although it was a fairly decent size breakfast, it kept me feeling very full and slightly bloated right the way through till 7pm, normally I would have been having a light lunch and then a full evening meal on a Sunday but no way could I manage that today. If I was ever to do it again - or if anyone else fancies a go then I would say half size portions on the first day back regardless how tempting it looks !

    I read that your internal organs shrink during the fasting phase, well I don't know about the rest of them but I'm pretty sure my stomach has shrunk !

    BG's eventually stabilised at 90% of my normal pre-fast basal rate but that small reduction is probably just down to the weight loss. If Dr Longo is correct then it will be a few days before any cells come back .......... Hmmmmm.... We'll see.
     
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  19. BarbaraG

    BarbaraG Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    If you're planning on making fasting a regular part of your routine, I highly recommend the blog of Dr Jason Fung, intensivedietarymagamenet.com. There is also a Facebook group called Fung Shweigh dedicated to fasting using his techniques. Among many other things, it covers the use of electrolytes to minimise side effects such as headache when fasting and also reduce the risk of problems with refeeding. There's guidance on what to eat when you break a fast - and a big cooked breakfast wouldn't be recommended!

    As for the sustainability of fasting - that really comes down to drawing on all the accumulated wisdom of those who practice it regularly to make it as easy as possible. It is perfectly sustainable to fast for 24 hours two or three times a week, for ever. Or five days once a month.

    The above is not a comment about renewing beta cells - the science isn't there yet in humans. But fasting as an aspect of lifestyle is perfectly doable and very effective in reducing insulin resistance.

    Users of insulin and certain other meds need great care and may not be able to fast without medical supervision. Pregnant women and children should not fast. Underweight people should not fast. I am not a doctor.
     
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  20. ickihun

    ickihun Type 2 · Master

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    I feel metformin stops growth, for me. It inhibits strong hair follicles for pcos sufferers, over growth on our ovaries. It changes fat cells for me. They can be burnt off whilst on metformin, again, for me.
    I might argue metformin mimics fasting!
     
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