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Fasting-Mimicking Diet Promotes Ngn3-Driven β-Cell Regeneration to Reverse Diabetes

Discussion in 'Diabetes Discussions' started by Oldvatr, Feb 24, 2017.

  1. DavidGrahamJones

    DavidGrahamJones Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    My wife used to work as a laboratory assistant for GD Searle, many years ago, but she had a license to kill mice being used for research. I remember asking why they use mice and she said that they are very similar to humans in many ways.

    Here's a quote from the National Human Genome Research Institute.

    Over the past century, the mouse has developed into the premier mammalian model system for genetic research. Scientists from a wide range of biomedical fields have gravitated to the mouse because of its close genetic and physiological similarities to humans, as well as the ease with which its genome can be manipulated and analyzed.

    That's not to say they're identical, just pretty close.
     
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  2. Brunneria

    Brunneria Other · Moderator
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    I suspect that a huge difference between mice and humans as regards beta cell regeneration is age.
    Several years ago I read about beta cell regeneration being largely dependent on the age of the animal (human or mouse), and that while regeneration seemed possible for young and healthy animals, it ground to a halt at a certain age. Sadly, I have lost the link to that study.

    Since most T2s are hitting middle age or above, at diagnosis, this could be a major factor.

    As for this 'Fasting Mimicking Diet' - have any of you seen these?
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/lifestyl...-Diet-and-try-the-Fast-Mimicking-Diet....html
    https://prolonfmd.com/fasting-mimicking-diet/

    It looks like it is a good way raise money for the diet researcher/diet creators.
    The 5 day pack of diet foods quoted in the Telegraph costs £150

    Barmey.
    When I fast, I save money! :D
     
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  3. ME_Valentijn

    ME_Valentijn · Guest

    Genetically, they're only about 90% similar. They have around 2,500 more genes than humans, which is a substantial difference. And in some respects they are radically different - especially noticeable in their GI systems, and that they are herbivores. I'd consider any research into mice involving diet to be especially suspect.

    But mice are popular for experimentation due to their shorter life cycle and fast reproduction, meaning that it can be a lot faster to study them, versus primates. And people are generally less bothered about torturing and killing mice in the name of science.

    I did come across something very relevant to the research discussed in this thread while looking into mice as lab animals - there is a Type 1 diabetic mouse. They develop autoimmunity destroying the pancreatic islets. Not all of them develop Type 1, but most of the females do. I'd be a helluva lot more impressed if someone managed to reverse that, versus transient hyperglycemia induced by an insufficient dose of a drug :p If beta cells were actually regenerating in an autoimmune mouse, they'd most likely just get destroyed again by auto-antibodies.
     
    #43 ME_Valentijn, Feb 27, 2017 at 8:31 AM
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 27, 2017
  4. ME_Valentijn

    ME_Valentijn · Guest

    What a scam. It's not even shown to work in mice, and they're marketing it at humans :meh: And if it's anything like the stuff they were feeding the fasting mice, one of the main ingredients is MSG/E621. I wouldn't feed that to a mouse, much less a human with any health problems.
     
  5. kokhongw

    kokhongw I reversed my Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Actually Dr Longo donates his proceeds to charity or some other funds. He has discussed this previously on the reasons for creating and having a patent on the FMD. In fact, because of the patent, you can work out details of the food composition...

    But I think that is a hassle...I would much rather go for a 3-5 day water fast.

    Then focus the money on quality refeeding. :D

    Updates
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Valter_Longo
     
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    #45 kokhongw, Feb 27, 2017 at 8:47 AM
    Last edited: Feb 27, 2017
  6. Brunneria

    Brunneria Other · Moderator
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    Thanks for that - good news about the charitable donations.
     
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  7. kokhongw

    kokhongw I reversed my Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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  8. DavidGrahamJones

    DavidGrahamJones Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Not exactly the same, 90% is close enough for me. LOL

    I used to wind my wife up when she was a lab assistant (the murderer).

    Looking at what scientists are doing, something like 115 million mice are used every year in research and if my wife's days in GD Searle are anything to go by, we haven't even thought about rats, guinea pigs, marmosets and there's probably loads of other species. One of the advantages of mice is that they can and are bred to be identical and even with different "built in" problems like the type I mouse you refer to.

    Although humans might be a better choice, we're all so different that test results would not be as clear as when testing mice.
     
  9. Angelofthemarches

    Angelofthemarches Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Actually I thought that 90% figure had changed. There is a lot of DNA we used to call 'junk' DNA because we thought it lacked purpose, but actually we are discovering more of its function.
     
  10. zippy100h

    zippy100h Type 1 · Member

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  11. VictorVillalobos

    VictorVillalobos Type 2 · Active Member

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    ..."presumably the newly regenerated beta cells would be attacked and killed by the immune system in Type 1s"
    But this is what makes it very interesting. To have shown that there is at least one way to promote regeneration is promissory. I remember Dr Bernstein said once that in autopsies of t1´s, they found still beta-cells, after so many decades with the immune response.
    It might that the body continously produces more beta and alpha cells.
    If so, we do not need necessarily to stop once and forever the immune response; even ameliorating it could help.
     
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  12. ME_Valentijn

    ME_Valentijn · Guest

    Except they can't have shown regeneration, since they didn't follow the procedure to destroy the cells in the first place :p
     
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  13. donnellysdogs

    donnellysdogs Type 1 · Master

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    Like the programme of research that had been done on mice before those 8 men that did the trial... I worry about the risk to other areas of the body....

    As I have been a long term low carber.. at least 35 years.. I wonder what caused my stomach and colon to go wrong and cancer...

    Yes, it kept me lean and slim all my life but it certInly hasnt kept me healthy...

    Like tablets,meds I believe that one thing may be assisted but even one type of specific dieting can cause other problems...

    Talking of cell regeneration etc can you really, honestly 100% hand on heart be sure that this is not going to adversely affect othe bodily functions of health??
     
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  14. Freema

    Freema Type 2 · Expert

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    I could be worth a try it probably will not kill most People to do some fasting
     
  15. Freema

    Freema Type 2 · Expert

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    According to Jason Fung one of the differences between fasting and on the other hand only going low in calories should be that when fasting over more days we do produce also more growth hormon which humans as we age produce less and less of. And also there could be some reprogramming maybe of gene expression and killing off of the more damaged cells in ones body that could give space for more new healthy cells created .... that could mean that maybe cancer cells ate killed by the fasting and in that way be the huge difference between fasting and low carb and low calorie dieting
     
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  16. kokhongw

    kokhongw I reversed my Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Actually that has been the main focus of Dr Valter Longo and his team's research over the years. Fascinating protective and regenerative effects of fasting/refeeding cycles.
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/?term=valter+longo

    This small scale human trial looks interesting. But details are behind a paywall.
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/28202779
     
  17. justadad

    justadad · Well-Known Member

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    Hopes die last! Five days of fasting seems a reasonable price to pay for a new set of beta cells. This study looks to good too be true.
    I've tried to read about different studies re diabetes management or reversability. Sadly, the ones I came across are small in size, time span, funding etc. I don't see why different schools, universities, labs, whatever, join together in a comprehensive research and produce some reliable data. I guess diabetes, just like anything else, is a huge business. Just consider the annual expenses for a diabetic if he/she wanted to use a CGM and a pump.
     
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  18. kokhongw

    kokhongw I reversed my Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    From the various studies...it requires multiple cycles of 5 consecutive days of fasting/refeeding...to generate observable improvements...and such observable regenerations are typically age dependent with 65 years old as the cut-off.

    Yes I am 3 days into my 1st cycle this year...
     
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  19. bulkbiker

    bulkbiker Type 2 · Oracle

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    Exactly... diabetes is a huge business and absolutely nobody will make a penny out of people not eating for 5 or 7 days. Therefore no-one will sponsor a large trial.. a sad indictment of the state of the world.
     
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  20. azure

    azure Type 1 · Expert

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    I think it's too good to be true too sadly - as far as Type 1 is concerned, that is.
     
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