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Fasting-Mimicking Diet Promotes Ngn3-Driven β-Cell Regeneration to Reverse Diabetes

Discussion in 'Diabetes Discussions' started by Oldvatr, Feb 24, 2017.

  1. kokhongw

    kokhongw I reversed my Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    2 min summary- Two new studies from Valter Longo indicate that a brief fasting- mimicking diet done periodically reduces disease risk factors and may reverse diseases like diabetes by promoting regeneration.

     
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  2. Mr Whippy

    Mr Whippy Type 1 · Active Member

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    Update 1 week in from resuming regular eating...... and ....

    It's all looking pretty good so far....... :D

    After finishing the semi-fast I had to drop to 90% of my basal insulin straight off (I'm putting this down to simple weight reduction)


    Then 3 days in, I started getting some unexplained lows in the afternoon, and dropped to 80% of my pre-fast basal insulin. 5 days in, more lows so dropped to 70% basal and have been running at that level for the last 2 1/2 days.

    At 4 and 5 days in I was seeing more lows around 2 hrs after eating so have dropped my bolus ratios by 1 g carbs per unit of insulin.

    It looks like things are settling down now but I still have my Libre CGM running in case...

    Weight has risen from 12 stone 6 at the end of the fast) to 12 stone 9 so at a rough guess 50 % of the initial weight loss was water.

    Most of the last week I have felt "tight" around the upper abdomen but this is wearing off now. (sort of like feeling like having a full stomach after a large meal, but a little higher up. Rather odd, and it seems unaffected by how much or how little I have eaten, or the time of day) Maybe it's the talked about "internal organ shrinkage"?
    When I'm at work I usually only eat 1 meal a day, in the evening. It suits me to do it that way.

    So........

    Will monitor things for the next 2 weeks, If I'm still happy with the reduced level of insulin - i.e no backsliding that might indicate an autoimmune response against the (I assume) new islet cells, then I will have another 5 day F.M.D. stint beginning Monday 3rd April.

    And I think it's about time I let my diabetes clinic know what I've been up to !
    I know I should have done this before I started but TBH I didn't want to be told "Don't do it".

    Valter Longo is onto something here ....

    Cheers - Dave ;)
     
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  3. Mr Whippy

    Mr Whippy Type 1 · Active Member

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    Next update - for anyone who's still interested -

    2nd April - it's been 4 weeks since I finished my 1st session of the FMD.
    On the diet I lost 8 lbs in 5 days, I have now put half of that back on and I am now 12 st 10lb.

    I had glucose going low, requiring lowering my basal rates from day 3 after re-feeding until day 8. Then it seemed to level off although I had another small drop at approx 2 weeks.

    Got myself into a bit of trouble in the 2nd & 3rd week - highs in the 20's then crashing hypos on a regular basis - then I realised where I was going wrong - I had been reducing the basal rates on my pump as a percentage of my pre- fast basal rates. By the time I was running at 60% of my original basal it had messed up my pattern big time due to the percentage calculation.

    I then realised that if I was indeed a proud owner of some new islet cells that they would be able to provide a certain (small) amount of insulin per hour and that it would be at a pretty constant rate.
    So I recalculated my basal rates by taking out 0.3 units per hour across the whole day from my starting basal pattern, then did a little fine tuning and came up with this new pattern (in red) - which I am fairly happy with at the moment. Starting basal pattern is in blue.

    [​IMG]

    So I am now taking between 0.25 and 0.3 units per hour less basal than before, which has dropped my total basal requirement from 10.64 to 6.61 units per day - and I now have zero basal programmed for 9 hours (evening & early hours) - previously that was 6 hours.

    I deem that is enough of a success to warrant another 5 day FMD, starting tomorrow. Avocados and nuts have already been purchased.

    I have informed my diabetes clinic and they have given me a cautious green light to do this - so long as I keep a really close eye on glucose & ketones.

    Dave.
     
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    #83 Mr Whippy, Apr 2, 2017 at 11:00 PM
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  4. Hoping4Cure

    Hoping4Cure Type 1 · BANNED

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    I'm doing this diet as well. PM me for details or google CureType1
     
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  5. Hoping4Cure

    Hoping4Cure Type 1 · BANNED

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    I'll share my experience for those who are interested:

    -FMD was not hard for me, even the first time (in 2015) and while going to work. Just reduced my Lantus / Humalog and assiduously monitored my sugars during the day for hypos. I'm doing it for the fourth time now. Easy as 1-2-3 (eating two avocados per day and some vitamins for micronutrients). Lowering insulin amounts taken also reduced hypoglycemia frequency below non-fasting, which seems ironic but hypos are often caused by too much IOB or insulin OD so that makes sense.

    -Blood sugars are the best they've ever been, both during FMD and in the week or two afterwards, even though I do LCHF normally and eat well and control my sugars relatively well. I love the re-feeding the most! Especially eating a few carbs in my first couple days of feasting which I normally avoid like the plague.

    -I've tried various drugs to treat my type 1 and nothing worked as well as FMD, on a temporary basis at least. For long-term LCHF is the best therapy I've ever done, then Victoza also helped for the remaining carbs and smooth out sugar graphs too.

    -Blood sugar charts are nice but c-peptide tests are the true gold standard if you want to know for sure if any regeneration is happening. One needs direct, empirical evidence for extraordinary claims, not an educated guess or a deduction based solely on sugar charts. Many possible explanations for better sugar control exist outside of beta cell regeneration or increased endogenous insulin production. (less IR, more lean muscle which absorbs insulin better, less glucose dumping by the liver, etc). In the UK I believe it may be easier to get a c-peptide test done if your sugars improve drastically and I recommend that. I've done it myself to prove I've successfully re-started my pancreatic function, at least on a temporary basis. But c-peptide tests are hard to requisition here in Canada. At least in the US you can get it done at a walk-in lab for 30 dollars. (I will be doing this again later this year).

    -Type 1 diabetes is linked to deficiency in two distinct subpopulations of gut microbes, from recent papers. It's possible to "feed the right wolves" (bacterial populations in your gut) by way of an analogy. I'm supplementing my FMD with activated charcoal, resveratrol supplements, and avocados are also known for beneficial effects on digestion for diabetics, besides being ideal FMD foods which makes it easy.

    -Fasting acts as a natural immuno-suppressant. (per Dr Longo's Ted Talk). So at least during FMD, there's a clear reason to expect beta cells to be able to have better chances of survival. As per reducing auto-immunity each cycle on top of that, that's also very exciting but we'll see.

    -LCHF changes gut microbiology generally, as does the ketogenic diet which has been reported to be beneficial to both types of diabetics generally. But FMD is not the same as LCHF, for one it's low-protein as well, secondly it's much lower overall calories per day than normal, and third it's cyclical which is the only time the regeneration takes place (supposedly).

    -Stressed beta cells have been shown to produce junk or "nonsense" proteins which may be the actual cause of the auto-immunity, and fasting purges weak / dead / stressed cells first, paving the way for healthy ones to take their place upon re-feeding, due to increased stem cells etc. Auto-immunity would presumably attack these new cells off too, but if each FMD cycle increases the proportion of healthy gut microbes which tolerate beta cells and insulin better, even by a small amount, then there's a chance of digging out of this hole. That's speculative in humans for now, but I don't need permission from my doctor or anyone else to just eat two avocados a day for five days a month, and I feel great every time I do it so I figure why not.

    That's it for now. Hope my post is allowed through this time. I signed up here to trade FMD tips / insights.
     
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  6. Mr Whippy

    Mr Whippy Type 1 · Active Member

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    Hi H4C.

    Nice to see somebody else having a stab at this.

    Just gone into keto today (day 2 of my second fast).

    I haven't done LCHF - well, not "properly" I am a regular eater most of the time although I do try to limit the portion size of "white carbs" on my plate when I eat at home. Sometimes, though, my appetite gets the better of me. :)

    Re gut microbes, in the last few months I have started culturing my own milk kefir and although I haven't noticed any major effect on my diabetes from it, it has certainly improved my bowel function in a major way and I do feel good for drinking a small glass of it every day. (though not whilst FMD fasting - it's a bit of an unknown quantity re carbs, calories, fat etc, being home brewed.)

    I'm doing 1 large avocado, a handful of mixed nuts, and a small bowl of homemade veg broth for my evening meal, During the day it's 1 cup of green tea and 1 cup of bovril (beef stock type drink) and plenty of water. I normally do 5 or 6 cups of coffee a day but as Mr Longo says this is a no-no I have tapered it down for 3 days prior to starting, as last time I ended up with a caffeine headache from stopping too fast.

    Agree with you on the C-Peptide thing - it will be the only way to prove the theory one way or the other. I had mine done about 6 months ago and my consultant said - "Low C peptide, High antibodies - You are definitely type 1."

    If I can manage to make a bigger dent in my insulin requirements in the future then I will ask for another C peptide test, but need to pursue this a little longer first.

    If I keep getting positive results then I'll keep doing the fasting - if not then I'll give it up as a bad job. To my mind, if there is some cell regeneration taking place, then after each cycle your insulin requirements should improve on the previous month's result, so the gains should stack up month on month. If the beneficial effects plateau out or start to regress then that is a sign that either it's not cell regeneration at all, or that the autoimmune response is undoing any cell regeneration that may be taking place.

    I seem to remember talk of a vaccine for T1 being developed a while ago ? Possibly a dose of this, followed up by FMD sessions may elicit a better response ?

    Cheers - Dave.
     
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  7. Hoping4Cure

    Hoping4Cure Type 1 · BANNED

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    I think even if the autoimmunity kicks back in with a vengeance and starts killing of beta cells again, it's still better to have some beta cell function than none. Let's not make perfect the enemy of good, right?

    In which case this becomes like a race to see which happens faster, regen or auto-immunity. And it's up for debate as to how quickly the autoimmunity will off new betas. (honeymoon periods vary greatly, even lasting several years after diagnosis). There's lots of evidence out there too that glucotoxicity contributes to beta cell stress and death which would be alleviated by good sugar control. (and perhaps verapamil, but that's another topic)

    The fact that you use a pump might give you an edge, I don't use one and at this point, after nearly two and a half decades without it, I don't expect to, ever. What matters the most are how frequent are your hyperglycemia excursions and how bad are they. Regeneration would still benefit from your beta cells not being taxed into failure due to being overworked, so it's likely a good a idea to be moderate when re-feeding and even beyond that, I would highly recommend avoiding white / simple carbs if you want to "win" here. Those carbs directly feed the wrong type of gut microbes which are the enemy of beta cells. Up to you of course, but you seem to be off to a promising start so good luck mate!

    Anyway, it'll be good to see more data points.

    Of all the crazy things I've tried, FMD is to me the most promising, and I also like the idea of living longer and cancer free too :) In Dr Longo's Ted Talk, he mentions how curing cancer alone would only extend lifespans by 3 years on average, whereas fasting has increased the lifespan of mice by 30%. What would you rather, 3 more years of life expectancy? or 30?

    Eventually all this stuff will be made into a pill but I don't want to wait until I'm too old to benefit from being normal again. (I don't consider it a slur to be considered abnormal, merely a statement of fact and simple acknowledgement of the truth of our situation). This disease has been such a drag, and taking matters into my own hands, especially in such a relatively low-risk way (I've done way riskier things in my life than limit myself to eating a couple avocados a day for a week), is something I just owe myself to try.

    Getting back the ability to sleep all night without interruption, to be clear-headed and focused all the time would be terrific boons. Which incidentally pseudo-fasting or severe caloric restriction helps with...apparently even brain neurons are regenerated which I find super exciting. I'm not expecting to get my stolen years of carefree youth back, but if I could at least get this albatross off my neck I could make it to the end with a smile on my face knowing I've lost many battles but won the war.
     
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  8. Hoping4Cure

    Hoping4Cure Type 1 · BANNED

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    Gonna treat myself to some Naan and butter chicken now that my watch has ended. :)

    For breakfast, maybe some bagels and lox and cream cheese? I haven't had bagels in yeeeeaars. Need to stimulate IGF-1 to maximize regeneration. (if I understand this correctly...to be confirmed)
     
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  9. Mr Whippy

    Mr Whippy Type 1 · Active Member

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    I finish my 2nd fast in the morning - The first 2 days were fairly easy, next two days were tough going as was this morning but felt miles better this afternoon / evening.

    I guess it's just getting used to running on ketones ?
    Blood sugars have been very stable during the fast, and I have cut my insulin back to zero since going into keto (apart from a small dose between 5 and 8 am) -

    I have had some difficulty finding out much useful information about how insulin works whist you are running on ketones but the first time I fasted 40% of my previous basal worked, this time it's zero for most of the day as I'm working on the premise that I have gained a small amount of insulin production (yet to be proved) and glucose figures have been pretty good over the fast.

    In the morning - Filter coffee, porridge, glass of milk kefir. :joyful:
    Last time I overdid my first meal and felt bloated for most of the rest of the day so I promised myself that if I did it again it would be small portions at first.

    Cheers - and good luck - Dave.
     
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  10. Hoping4Cure

    Hoping4Cure Type 1 · BANNED

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    I've discussed a few times, without any conclusions, on the other blog about whether it's best to try to reduce basal to 0 to short-acting to 0 and let basal shoulder more of the daily burden, by avoiding meals that spike sugar levels i.e. use a ketogenic diet perhaps in combination with GLP-1 and/of metformin. Who knows. I remember vaguely reading some evidence that having too much external / exogenous insulin actively hampers beta cell function and replication and endogenous insulin production. So indeed having too much injected insulin could be counterproductive.

    It's important for us to remember that without an appropriate / adequate source of insulin, we can go into DKA and it's important to monitor ketones to make sure they don't get too high. I remember reading about a couple type 1s in Japan died when put on GLP-1 because they stopped taking insulin when their sugars looked normal. Sugars looking normal without insulin is not necessarily a sign that injections should be stopped, is what I'm saying. It's best to be conservative here, I think. The more functional beta cells we have the more alpha - beta signalling should occur which also means not only less hypos, but less spikes because beta cells producing insulin actually tells alpha cells to put on the brakes of their own signal to the liver to release sugar into the bloodstream. So even minor amounts of increased beta cell function will have an out-sized influence on the side effects we get. That much is also borne out by some studies. Of course since beta cells are responsible for not only producing insulin but monitoring current blood sugar and in the presence of low sugar not only stop making insulin but tell alpha cells to release sugar, and so protects us from hypos.

    This is of course a terrific reason to try regenerating beta cells, since even minor increases in c-peptides is solid gold. As many type 1s probably have detectable c-peptides (at least with Faustman's ultra-sensitive test but perhaps even with a normal sensitivity assay), but aren't even aware of how well they're doing in this regard, I consider it irresponsible and bordering on medical malpractice to not be prescribed at least yearly c-peptide tests. It's likely that many clues that could have led to a cure were ignored or dismissed as vague happenstance, like "mini-honeymoon" when in fact something important happens in the body periodically which boosts natural insulin production and yet the old bias against the idea of a drug-free rehabilitation (even a spontaneous one) has been obvious now. Even when I showed MDs my non-zero c-peptide levels from verified labs they didn't think, "hmm, we should dig deeper" and no, it's just let's focus on diet and control, get him on a pump, boost more profits for their colleagues in the for-profit diabetes industry, which has a counter-incentive to actually curing this disease, let alone curing it naturally and in a drug-free way.
     
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    #90 Hoping4Cure, Apr 8, 2017 at 8:09 PM
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  11. Hoping4Cure

    Hoping4Cure Type 1 · BANNED

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    I read the article about actor Terry Crews' intermittent fasting:

    http://www.diabetes.co.uk/blog/2017...-felt-better-on-an-intermittent-fasting-diet/

    Not that I usually follow celeb endorsements, nor am I doing this diet to get in better shape (though that wouldn't hurt), I wonder if having this cycle happening daily would be something to consider for my type 1.

    Thing is about fasting for 16 hours a day, is that yes, obviously it would cause some autophagy to occur, but is this stressful on the body? Probably. Then again, according to the Dr Longo's interview, it's not fasting which is a stressful state for us, it's eating. Eating and digesting is the outlying state (or should be), during human history and evolution has given us (and other animals) adaptations to take advantage of it. So I really think at this point that rejecting the recommended 5-6 meals a day scheme + snacks is smart, it seems that it's obviously being promoted by the glucose / fructose industry and their respective swamp critters (lobbyists).

    I think I'm definitely going to cut breakfast out of my life for, say, six months, and see how it goes. Is the breakfast creed of Count Chocula indeed a lie promoted by a ghoulish and vampiric food industry at the expense of our health? They always say that kids who don't eat a proper breakfast before school are listless and lethargic, but these kids are obviously sugar addicted instead of keto-adapted. I feel alert and sharp and haven't eaten anything yet today (I'm back on ketosis now, according to my strips).

    So do the Mediterranean diet which is time restricted and probably ketogenic too (not 100% sure about this though, but I believe so). I think before my diet was basically too heavy on lean protein so I need to lower that and eat more fat instead. Maybe if I eat a slab of cream cheese and some celery for lunch and then broccoli /w cheese and butter for dinner + maybe fish or chicken or steak too.

    I can't stomach the idea of putting butter in my morning coffee though, that's gross and would ruin my favorite drink that makes me feel normal. However I do wonder about trying even higher fat cream.

    The fact that Dr Longo said in the interview (posted in the fasting subforum) that 7 day FMD + refeeding using Mediterranean diet is the most effective so far, for regen purposes, I think I'm going to try 7-day FMD next time with the last day water fasting (as I did this time. well, I did have one cappucino in the last morning though).

    Time-restricted feeding seems like a winner too, and I wonder if this also applies to drinking wine. Probably. That is the only sucky part. I typically stop eating after 8pm anyway, but cutting out drinking after 8 is going to suck. I should really keep it to friday - saturday night anyway so that's a WIP.

    I'm also wondering about my gut microbes, if it's good or bad to stop resveratrol during non-FMD period. It doesn't look like Dr Longo is going to reply to my queries this time, he's probably way too busy or perhaps thinks I'm crazy for doing this without clinical supervision, fair enough, although I think eating a normal carb-based diet is riskier than FMD, especially in the long-term. On average I actually had less insulin OD-related hypos this week, than my general average which is now at 2-3 / month. Down from 1/day when I was eating carbs seven years ago. Actually not curing my diabetes carries its own inherent risk of sudden death, coma, and other complications. Anyone who's content with 2-3 hypos per week clearly has a different take of risk than I do. I think FMD's safer than even my normal diet, due to lower hypo frequency. I.e. the Law of small numbers kicks in.
     
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    #91 Hoping4Cure, Apr 9, 2017 at 8:40 PM
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  12. Mr Whippy

    Mr Whippy Type 1 · Active Member

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    I have never been a regular breakfast eater, but after my initial T1 diagnosis in '96 I started doing toast every morning to fit in with the "diabetes plan" that I had been given.

    However I was never really hungry first thing in the morning, so eventually when I went from pre-mixed insulin onto a basal / bolus regime I dropped breakfast most days except for a proper cooked breakfast on a Sunday morning.

    Around 3 years ago there was a programme on the BBC with Dr Michael Mosley (Horizon) called "Eat Fast Live Longer" in which he investigated calorie restricted eating on extending lifespan, spoke to Dr Longo and did (IIRC) a 4 day water fast to improve his IGF1 and insulin sensitivity.

    He then did a piece on alternate day fasting with (IIRC) a Dr Vardy ? and on return to the UK he started doing a 5:2 diet - 5 days regular eating, 2 days on 500 calories. This became popular and he wrote a book "the fast diet" which has a large following, mainly for general weight loss & health benefits.

    I started doing the 5:2 (I was on a pump at this point) and lost a fair bit of weight. After a while though I realised it was easier for me to drop the 5:2 and just eat one meal a day with no particular calorie limit 4 days a week. I work four days per week and whilst I'm busy at work I find it's much easier to keep my mind away from food and hunger. The other 3 days I usually do lunch and evening meal, but there's no calorie counting and I find for me that it works (weight wise) as well as, if not better than the 5:2 diet.

    So yes, I have been doing time restricted eating for a couple of years now, it's a doddle so long as I can keep my mind busy so I that don't dwell on hunger. Works well to keep my weight reasonably stable without doing major time consuming exercise - though I do always try to keep on my feet as much as possible through the day. Re. the diabetes control it has a plus and a minus. Plus is you don't get a breakfast spike or a lunch spike. Minus is that when you do eat in the evening you are hungry so a large meal is often consumed. I have an issue with combined carbs and fat (Pizza for example) giving me an extra long drawn out high - so I have to try and avoid this, or compensate with an extended bolus. Easier said than done.

    So as I was already used to doing a bit of fasting anyway, the FMD concept seemed "doable" to me whereas years ago the mere thought of eating next to naff all for a full 5 days would have been like climbing Everest. I wouldn't have even considered attempting it - especially without full "proof" that it would actually do anything.

    Dave.
     
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  13. kokhongw

    kokhongw I reversed my Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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  14. Hoping4Cure

    Hoping4Cure Type 1 · BANNED

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    I don't think alternate day or 5:2 are the way forward here, at least not optimally, for growing beta cells. The literature clearly says the regenerative aspect only begins after two days of fasting, so a 5-day FMD once a month seems like a very manageable thing to do. Of course, the diet in the meanwhile probably needs to be good too, meaning not feeding bad gut microbes with a sugary / carb-loaded diet. I'm going to cut out red wine entirely from my nightly meals during the week, and force myself into ketosis using a more controlled scheme. I can't imagine the high sugars I got when re-feeding the past couple days have been an ideal breeding ground for new beta cells.

    I think I'm going to switch my breakfast from two boiled eggs to an avocado every morning, since I probably have an excess of protein in my diet. Maybe I'll cut out lunch instead of breakfast is what I'm saying, and go to two meals a day. Or perhaps just eat the avocado for lunch instead, and a coffee for breakfast. Not sure yet, I'll try it both ways. I've done quite well on boiled eggs for breakfast for the past several years now but think it may be time to mix things up. Having a variety of foods is apparently ideal but I'm too busy for that. I can do maybe three staples (creature of habit) in the morning rush.

    There is so much info out there on fasting now, and since it's a cheap DIY immune system / body hack I expect over time more and more people will try it.
     
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  15. Mr Whippy

    Mr Whippy Type 1 · Active Member

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    Agreed.

    They are both very good ways to keep control of your weight however, which is what I was using the 5:2 for. And of course keeping your weight under control does make it easier to keep your diabetes under control, but it is in no way a cure (for T1). And some prior experience of fasting does make it easier to transition to attempting a FMD. - which is why I mentioned it.

    I still do the "one meal a day" time restricted thing, but not as often since I've been doing FMD.

    Since I lost 4 lbs net over a month on the last FMD cycle, I am wary of dieting myself too thin if I potentially loose that much every cycle, and if I extrapolate the assumed extra insulin capacity that I gained from FMD session #1 and the above weight loss then I will be looking like a 3rd world famine victim by the time I have done enough to be truly insulin independent.
    I know it probably won't work out like that in the real world, but it is in the back of my mind.

    ..............................................

    However........

    It's an early shout here tonight but today is day 3 after resuming normal eating for me, on FMD session #2.
    This afternoon / evening I am seeing more unexplained drops in BG, on my Libre CGM so it's looking like I might be starting to replicate my improvements from session 1, which also began on the afternoon of day 3 after normal eating.

    Might be nothing, but getting lower than expected BG's and I have dropped my basal rates by another 0.6 mmoL per hour, (and not by a percentage rate, which messed me up last time) so we'll see how it goes and I'll keep you posted when there's something more definite to report in a few days time.

    Cheers - Dave.
     
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  16. Hoping4Cure

    Hoping4Cure Type 1 · BANNED

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    Cutting insulin requirements for the same diet is a good sign of...something good. Could be reduced IR, or increased signalling to existing beta cells, or new beta cells entirely. Or some combination of those. Regardless, getting off insulin is the name of the game and if this helps, it's a step in the right direction. I totally agree that some fasting is probably better than none, and 5:2 might be just on the cusp of doing the trick.

    I lost 8 pounds (stone? to you Brits) over FMD period then gained back 4 within a day. Refeeding...is fun! Don't worry too much about losing too much weight, it's easy to regain it all in the first week, especially if you treat re-feeding like a prescribed medical necessity rather than a necessary evil. It's probably much easier for most to put on weight than take it off. Over-Binging is likely a risk too.

    In other news, I got a clinic that does several type 1 studies to follow me, knowing full well of my current / previous FMD self-experimentation, which means I may indeed be able to get my c-peptides (and other vitals) tracked regularly and perhaps even order Prolon for the FMD foods. If all goes well, I'll be able to know for sure what's happening to my body and avert any potential downsides from doing this yo-yo diet. I may even be able to convince them to let me go on metformin if they think that's warranted. But I really want to reduce the amount of drugs I'm taking, and try allowing my body to heal itself this way.

    Fasting...so hot right now.
     
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  17. bulkbiker

    bulkbiker Type 2 · Oracle

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    Hi guys @Hoping4Cure and @Mr Whippy
    As I type 2 I fast quite regularly..and cut out breakfast 18 months ago on diagnosis.
    Have either of you thought of just doing a liquid only fast rather than the FMD to shakes things up a bit?
    I tend to do tea with lactofree milk (lowest carbs) and coffee with double cream when not eating. This leads to consumption of between 450 and 800 calories a day (depending o the coffee count). Today I'm trying a black tea and black coffee day to see if there's a difference to yesterday which was a cream and milk day.
    Sounds like you are both having some success. Sorry to butt in on a Type 1 themed thread but I think us fasters need to stick together !
     
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  18. BarbaraG

    BarbaraG Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    I'm another T2 using fasting, and eating keto when I do eat.

    From what I've read, it seems that alternating between eating and not eating is much healthier than eating regularly, even when the total amount eaten is the same. For T2's, this is about allowing glucose and insulin levels to fall, whereas with multiple meals and snacks daily they both remain persistently elevated. That can promote insulin resistance, glucotoxicity etc.

    The Newcastle Diet work suggests that beta cells are not actually killed off in T2, but clogged up with fat. Removing the fat enables them to start working again.

    The longest fast I've managed so far is 42 hours, though latterly I haven't managed longer than 24 hours (which I do weekly). I am, however, planning a fast of up to 6 days in the summer, when my husband is away and can't object. It remains to be seen whether I've got the determination to do it, though.
     
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  19. Hoping4Cure

    Hoping4Cure Type 1 · BANNED

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    I'm up for trying anything. I generally like shakes, soups and broths and in Prolon too ("official" FMD diet foods tweaked by Dr Longo and his team).

    I tried switching from dairy cream to cashew milk since it's the most milk-like in terms of flavour, but I'm willing to try other stuff. I think at least during FMD I might cut out cream too and drink coffee and tea black, like you. Although that will likely give me the shakes.

    And don't think this is a type 1-only thread! Both types of diabetes are important to sort out, and over the years, rather than see both types as completely different, I have seen more and more overlap in how they can be overcome, drugs that benefit one often benefits the other, etc.
     
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  20. Hoping4Cure

    Hoping4Cure Type 1 · BANNED

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    Being a type 2, does your alpha-beta cell signalling work? In other words, do you get hypos? Ever? I would totally do water fasting if I wasn't so afraid of sudden death. My partner is well-versed in how to operate my glucagon pen and what to do if I can't be awoken (call 911 then test my blood and administer the shot depending. if it's super high obviously you want to give insulin instead of glucagon and vice versa).

    But my suggestion to you is...if you're already capable of water fasting nearly two days, eating the 1-2 avocados / per day plus some vitamins is going to be way easier, and if type 1s can do it, then surely a type 2 can do it too. (and pseudo-fast for longer). I find avocados delicious and filling, definitely one of nature's superfoods.
     
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