Thyroiddiabetic
Well-Known Member
- Messages
- 134
- Type of diabetes
- Type 2
But metformin kills cancer stem cells does it not?
But metformin kills cancer stem cells does it not?According to Jason Fung one of the differences between fasting and on the other hand only going low in calories should be that when fasting over more days we do produce also more growth hormon which humans as we age produce less and less of. And also there could be some reprogramming maybe of gene expression and killing off of the more damaged cells in ones body that could give space for more new healthy cells created .... that could mean that maybe cancer cells ate killed by the fasting and in that way be the huge difference between fasting and low carb and low calorie dieting
But metformin kills cancer stem cells does it not?
I won't know in What way metformin lowers cancer ,
It is believed that systemic effect of metformin manifested by the reduction of circulating level of insulin and insulin-like growth factor 1 (IGF-1) might be associated with anticancer action (13). Insulin/IGF-1 is involved not only in regulation of glucose uptake but also in carcinogenesis through upregulation of insulin/IGF receptor signaling pathway (14). The excessive food consumption (insulin) leads to increased liver production of IGF-1 that binds to IGF-1 receptor and insulin receptor. Then, through insulin receptor substrate (IRS) the signal is transmitted to phosphoinositide 3-kinase (PI3K), and Akt/protein kinase B (PKB) that indirectly activates (not phosphorylates) mTORC1. Additionally, insulin receptor through growth factor receptor-bound protein 2 (GRB2) propagates signal to Ras/Raf/ERK pathway that drives cell growth. Evidences indicate that these pathways play important role in changes of cellular metabolism that are typical feature of tumor cells (15). Increased levels of circulating insulin/IGF1 and upregulation of insulin/IGF receptor signaling pathways were demonstrated to be involved in the formation of many types of cancer. Metformin was found to reduce insulin level, inhibit insulin/IGF signaling pathways, and modify cellular metabolism in normal and cancer cells (16).
Quite an article and nicely written/compiledHave not read very much on this, but this paragraph describing the systemic effect of metformin from the first article I come across seems surprisingly similar to fasting...
Metformin in cancer prevention and therapy
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4200668/
Also in Valter Longo's interview, there was a discussion on Metformin @1:00:00.
Does Metformin increase Autophagy...pretty sure it does.
His response 'Will I take metformin...absolutely not,'
http://www.diabetes.co.uk/forum/threads/fasting-mimicking-diet-promotes-ngn3-driven-β-cell-regeneration-to-reverse-diabetes.116847/#post-1394601
My kidneys are also feeling the stain too now from metformin .I probably could get by with a lower dose .I won't know in What way metformin lowers cancer ,
Maybe it also hinders good functions in our body , my kidney sure are stressed from metformin and tried to pee out This Strange Chemical junk from my body so much I have sometimes to go up till 5 times to the toilet in one night, now I eat the whole dose early in the morning and have succeded in sleeping 2 whole nights without interruptions
I read the BBC article with interest on Monday, and of course it's always wise to take these things with a very big pinch of salt but I thought what the heck - I'll give it a go for one session and see if it results in a decrease in insulin requirements afterwards. After all what have I got to loose ? -
Well about 1 stone for starters.
No drugs and no cost involved to give it a try, and whenever I see the words "Do not try this at home" that's just a red rag to a bull for me.
So I started on Tuesday, and today (Sat) is the last day. I already had a Libre sensor running when I decided to give it a go so that came in very handy as approx 1 1/2 days in my basal requirements dropped right off and I have ended up running the rest of the time on a 40% basal rate. (I'm guessing that's when I would have gone into fasting ketosis) If I hadn't had the libre CGM running then I would have landed myself in a hypo, which would have screwed the diet.
I have checked blood ketones a few times and they seem to be averaging around 1.3
Have been very surprised at the level of hunger, first couple of days hunger levels were a bit up and down, but never unbearable. Last three days hunger has been fairly minimal all the time (say around 3 out of 10)
My typical food for a day - 1 avocado, a handful of mixed nuts, 1 black coffee, a few olives, a tomato or 1/4 cucumber. Kept it well within the calorie, carbs and protein guidelines.
Tomorrow morning - first day of refeeding - Full English cooked breakfast (without the bread but a few sautéed sweet potato chunks)
So according to the paper and reading between the lines, if there's anything in it I should see a decrease in basal requirements after a few days back on normal eating. So I will wait and see.....
Of course there will be a slight decrease anyway because there's 8 pounds less of me now than there was at the beginning of the week but if there's a major decrease in basal requirements then I will know that there is indeed something in it.
As to how long any improvement may last who knows - I'm guessing the immune system will carry on attacking any new cells that may arrive. Anyway, the proof of the pudding etc.....
Cheers - Dave.
I read the BBC article with interest on Monday, and of course it's always wise to take these things with a very big pinch of salt but I thought what the heck - I'll give it a go for one session and see if it results in a decrease in insulin requirements afterwards. After all what have I got to loose ? -
Well about 1 stone for starters.
No drugs and no cost involved to give it a try, and whenever I see the words "Do not try this at home" that's just a red rag to a bull for me.
So I started on Tuesday, and today (Sat) is the last day. I already had a Libre sensor running when I decided to give it a go so that came in very handy as approx 1 1/2 days in my basal requirements dropped right off and I have ended up running the rest of the time on a 40% basal rate. (I'm guessing that's when I would have gone into fasting ketosis) If I hadn't had the libre CGM running then I would have landed myself in a hypo, which would have screwed the diet.
I have checked blood ketones a few times and they seem to be averaging around 1.3
Have been very surprised at the level of hunger, first couple of days hunger levels were a bit up and down, but never unbearable. Last three days hunger has been fairly minimal all the time (say around 3 out of 10)
My typical food for a day - 1 avocado, a handful of mixed nuts, 1 black coffee, a few olives, a tomato or 1/4 cucumber. Kept it well within the calorie, carbs and protein guidelines.
Tomorrow morning - first day of refeeding - Full English cooked breakfast (without the bread but a few sautéed sweet potato chunks)
So according to the paper and reading between the lines, if there's anything in it I should see a decrease in basal requirements after a few days back on normal eating. So I will wait and see.....
Of course there will be a slight decrease anyway because there's 8 pounds less of me now than there was at the beginning of the week but if there's a major decrease in basal requirements then I will know that there is indeed something in it.
As to how long any improvement may last who knows - I'm guessing the immune system will carry on attacking any new cells that may arrive. Anyway, the proof of the pudding etc.....
Cheers - Dave.
Get tired of hearing the latest miracle cures, distorted into the "latest breakthrough" by the likes of the BBC and the daily fail.
All this does is make type 0's think diabetes can be cured, leading to them assuming that it's not all that serious!!!
https://type1bri.com/the-cure-again
That type of cure is almost there, still doesn't cure T1D though as the auto immune response will simply attack and kill the new beta cells transplanted in.if people do not keep looking for a possible cure, then we can be sure it will never be found, it is because of optimistic researchers that cures have been found in all ages and only very seldom by accident...
actually I think type 1 will be the first diabetic disease to find a cure maybe by transplanting stemcells from the person her og him self grown outside of their body before being transplanted into the person again..
hurrah for optimistic people pushing for and experimenting for solutions forever..
still doesn't cure T1D though as the auto immune response will simply attack and kill the new beta cells transplanted in
Highlights
•Dietary restrictions and fasting decrease immunosenescence.
•Fasting or Fasting mimicking diet promotes anti-inflammatory effects.
•Fasting mimicking diet alleviates or reverses autoimmune disorders in mice and possibly humans.
Few issues with this argumentThat is probably why Valter Longo and others thinks his drug free approach is promising and worth pursuing...
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0303720717300552
Nutrition and fasting mimicking diets in the prevention and treatment of autoimmune diseases and immunosenescence.
Good work, Dave, and well done on your weight loss. Even if nothing else happens, at least you have tried. Looking forward to updates
Congrats on the weight loss Dave, great effortCheers.
Weighed myself this morning - lost 8lbs in 5 days. However reading about others who have tried this (Google "Fasting mimicking diet" for more links) it seems likely that I will put a fair bit of it back on in the next month or so.
But I think I've just eaten the best breakfast of my life !
I have no great expectations from this but thought it's worth a shot as a one-off. If basal rates do need to come down substantially then I'll be surprised, (but at least it would prove part of the theory). If they stay down I'll be astounded but nothing ventured, nothing gained.
If anything of note occurs in the next month I'll post it back here.
Dave.
Cheers.
Weighed myself this morning - lost 8lbs in 5 days. However reading about others who have tried this (Google "Fasting mimicking diet" for more links) it seems likely that I will put a fair bit of it back on in the next month or so.
However I think I've just eaten the best breakfast of my life !
I have no great expectations from this but thought it's worth a shot as a one-off. If basal rates do need to come down substantially then I'll be surprised, (but at least it would prove part of the theory). If they stay down I'll be astounded but nothing ventured, nothing gained.
Hey Kids ! - Don't try this at home !
If anything of note occurs in the next month I'll post it back here.
Dave.
2. A fasting approach is not sustainable long term and effects our quality of life substantially.
Have you planned your re-feeding carefully?
I saw a recent video that touched on the risks of refeeding after fasting, and it really made me think.
Doesn't mean that fasting is bad, just that we should be considering the period AFTER fasting as just as important as the not-eating phase. Electrolyte balance, etc. etc. I will let the video explain further. The relevant bit is towards the end of the vid.
I feel metformin stops growth, for me. It inhibits strong hair follicles for pcos sufferers, over growth on our ovaries. It changes fat cells for me. They can be burnt off whilst on metformin, again, for me.But metformin kills cancer stem cells does it not?
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