Thyroiddiabetic
Well-Known Member
Anyone currently trying this.Trying to reduce my calories and more importantly carbs while keeping fat on the higher side.Worried I may start getting frail from too much muscle loss
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Fasting-Mimicking Diet Promotes Ngn3-Driven β-Cell Regeneration to Reverse Diabetes
- Thread starter Oldvatr
- Start Date
zbluebirdz
Well-Known Member
Keep an eye on your protein intake and do some strength training 1-3 times a week - doesn't have to be heavy stuff, just enough to keep the muscles in shape. Exercise on the non-fasting days.
Speedbird
Well-Known Member
Yes, I finished my second 5 day fast last week. I just kept doing what I normally do with regards to exercise as like you, I am concerned about losing muscle. But in fact this second fast I found was easier than the first time last month. I took advice from this forum and had the beloved avocado to sustain me. Vegetable broth in between and green tea. Although I did sneak in a coffee too. Good luck. I'm sure somebody will come on soon and give more info x
Thyroiddiabetic
Well-Known Member
Managed 1000 calories today .Have the flu which helps.Broccoli and feta with olive oil.for supper Only 2 metformin.
Lunch a usn protein shake.6 grams of carbs per 100g which I thought was a bit much ,I know that the whey isolates have only 1 g.Soo much coffee doctor will be furious was told to stop 1 year ago asap.Will toss it for some green tee tomorrow.
Seems like my mind is changing without all the starch and gluten.
We will see what happens from now .
Will see if I can stick it for 5 days.
Thyroiddiabetic
Well-Known Member
3 rd day trying for 1000 calories again.1500 yesterday.
Starting to feel better especially mentally.Have been wondering if this is anyway to live.But what is the alternatives?Carbs which nearly killed me 12 years ago?
Perhaps Dr Bernstein is right afterall we don't need carbs.
Starting to feel better especially mentally.Have been wondering if this is anyway to live.But what is the alternatives?Carbs which nearly killed me 12 years ago?
Perhaps Dr Bernstein is right afterall we don't need carbs.
kokhongw
Well-Known Member
Usually the 2nd day is tougher because the glycogen is depleted and the ketones have not ramped up.
That is where I find a spoonful or two of virgin coconut oil to be very helpful...
Living-by-the-beach
Well-Known Member
@Thyroiddiabetic
or add a 1/2 a large avocado. I find them not to be bulky but satiating (makes one feel fuller). One benefit is the following day's FBG if you eat said avocado as part of one's evening meal. My FBG numbers when I did my last FMD were all non-diabetic for the full 5 days and were helped with coconut oil and avocado. I normally add a salad dressing (of some description) + plenty of salt and ground pepper + magnesium tablet too..
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Thyroiddiabetic
Well-Known Member
Thanks I don't like avocado but the coconut oil sounds good.
Latest update ----
Finished fast #3 and the "re-feed" - I have a slight improvement in basal insulin requirements over fast #1 but not much...
I have written off fast #2 as a failure due to overdoing the protein (see my earlier posts)
Re. the experience of the FMD itself, I generally find that days 1 & 2 are not too bad and I go into keto around lunchtime on day 2.
Days 3 & 4 are a miserable grind, hard work, I can't concentrate as well and I do tend to be grumpy.
The last session I felt much better on day 5, clearer head and not grumpy, but still hungry. (probably just my body becoming used to the keto.)
I have also been having a little salt with my avocados (it does improve the flavour) and a few drops of balsamic vinegar on my small green salad - likewise.
As you will see by my basal rate chart below, I have gained another reduction in insulin required, although it is much less than that achieved on my 1st FMD. I didn't bother charting results of FMD #2 as they were so small as to be negligible on the graph.
Now it could be that my first session also lost me some visceral fat, which helped sensitivity, which would account for a better result for session 1 than subsequent sessions, or quite possibly any number of other reasons. Without proper blood tests before and after it's impossible to say for sure exactly what's going on. However, it's still a gain so I will continue - my FMD#4 starts tomorrow.
One other difference between my first and last sessions was that, once keto had kicked in at lunchtime on day 2, on session 1 I ran a temporary basal level of 30% of my pre fast level until breaking the fast on morning of day 6. My BG's kept a pretty flat line around 6 to 7 mmoL during the keto phase.
The last session (for the keto phase) I ran a lot less insulin, basically just my early morning "spike" with most of the rest of the day at zero - and my BG levels ran at a pretty steady 9 to 10 mmoL
So this time I will try a 30% basal rate again during keto, and aim to hold my BG's around 6 mmoL - see if that makes a difference.
Going to see my consultant in a couple of weeks - I will ask for a C peptide test but it's all down to NHS budgets....
Cheers - Dave.
Finished fast #3 and the "re-feed" - I have a slight improvement in basal insulin requirements over fast #1 but not much...
I have written off fast #2 as a failure due to overdoing the protein (see my earlier posts)
Re. the experience of the FMD itself, I generally find that days 1 & 2 are not too bad and I go into keto around lunchtime on day 2.
Days 3 & 4 are a miserable grind, hard work, I can't concentrate as well and I do tend to be grumpy.
The last session I felt much better on day 5, clearer head and not grumpy, but still hungry. (probably just my body becoming used to the keto.)
I have also been having a little salt with my avocados (it does improve the flavour) and a few drops of balsamic vinegar on my small green salad - likewise.
As you will see by my basal rate chart below, I have gained another reduction in insulin required, although it is much less than that achieved on my 1st FMD. I didn't bother charting results of FMD #2 as they were so small as to be negligible on the graph.
Now it could be that my first session also lost me some visceral fat, which helped sensitivity, which would account for a better result for session 1 than subsequent sessions, or quite possibly any number of other reasons. Without proper blood tests before and after it's impossible to say for sure exactly what's going on. However, it's still a gain so I will continue - my FMD#4 starts tomorrow.
One other difference between my first and last sessions was that, once keto had kicked in at lunchtime on day 2, on session 1 I ran a temporary basal level of 30% of my pre fast level until breaking the fast on morning of day 6. My BG's kept a pretty flat line around 6 to 7 mmoL during the keto phase.
The last session (for the keto phase) I ran a lot less insulin, basically just my early morning "spike" with most of the rest of the day at zero - and my BG levels ran at a pretty steady 9 to 10 mmoL
So this time I will try a 30% basal rate again during keto, and aim to hold my BG's around 6 mmoL - see if that makes a difference.
Going to see my consultant in a couple of weeks - I will ask for a C peptide test but it's all down to NHS budgets....
Cheers - Dave.
kokhongw
Well-Known Member
Did you manage to get any ketones meter to verify? Usually BG needs to be ~ 5 mmol to start seeing good level of ketones.
https://optimisingnutrition.com/2015/07/20/the-glucose-ketone-relationship/
These Type1 maintain very tight glucose control following Dr Bernstein's protocol.
https://www.facebook.com/Type1Grit/
Thanks for the links - very interesting stuff. I think it makes sense to try and run tighter bg control over the next fast. The only problem is that if you do hit a hypo then you have to treat it and then you've just screwed up your FMD. However running a cgm does help to take some pressure off.
I did take the occasional ketone reading during the fasts, but just to make sure I wasn't getting into ketoacidosis territory.
Dave.
Winnie53
BANNED
I'm enjoying this topic. After listening to Stephen Phinney's concerns about the risks of extended fasting, I found this article on re-feeding syndrome written by Jason Fung helpful... https://intensivedietarymanagement.com/refeeding-syndromes-fasting-20/
Others have referred to this article but I don't think a link was posted.
Others have referred to this article but I don't think a link was posted.
Living-by-the-beach
Well-Known Member
I shouldn't have started on my FMD yesterday but I did anyways as I'm only a few days away from the end of the month.. It suited my schedule better than waiting till next weekend.
I've cycled about 600 miles in the last month to so that should have a positive effect on my health also. I did test this morning at I came in at 5.4mmol/l or 98mg/dl (sub 100 is supposedly non T2DM). I'm feeling good going into today. This week as I'm FMDing I'll back off the 20+ miles/day riding. I am sure I've got more than enough going on helping my body fix itself. I'll be eating the rest of the avocado (with a light dressing of vinegar and avocado oil mix + plenty of salt and pepper) + a few more handfuls of nuts. My weight scales aren't working right now so I'm going to pony up for a new set with "Fat %" feature built in. All in all I think I am doing better..
I've cycled about 600 miles in the last month to so that should have a positive effect on my health also. I did test this morning at I came in at 5.4mmol/l or 98mg/dl (sub 100 is supposedly non T2DM). I'm feeling good going into today. This week as I'm FMDing I'll back off the 20+ miles/day riding. I am sure I've got more than enough going on helping my body fix itself. I'll be eating the rest of the avocado (with a light dressing of vinegar and avocado oil mix + plenty of salt and pepper) + a few more handfuls of nuts. My weight scales aren't working right now so I'm going to pony up for a new set with "Fat %" feature built in. All in all I think I am doing better..
Living-by-the-beach
Well-Known Member
Latest update ----
Finished fast #3 and the "re-feed" - I have a slight improvement in basal insulin requirements over fast #1 but not much...
I have written off fast #2 as a failure due to overdoing the protein (see my earlier posts)
Re. the experience of the FMD itself, I generally find that days 1 & 2 are not too bad and I go into keto around lunchtime on day 2.
Days 3 & 4 are a miserable grind, hard work, I can't concentrate as well and I do tend to be grumpy.
The last session I felt much better on day 5, clearer head and not grumpy, but still hungry. (probably just my body becoming used to the keto.)
I have also been having a little salt with my avocados (it does improve the flavour) and a few drops of balsamic vinegar on my small green salad - likewise.
As you will see by my basal rate chart below, I have gained another reduction in insulin required, although it is much less than that achieved on my 1st FMD. I didn't bother charting results of FMD #2 as they were so small as to be negligible on the graph.
Now it could be that my first session also lost me some visceral fat, which helped sensitivity, which would account for a better result for session 1 than subsequent sessions, or quite possibly any number of other reasons. Without proper blood tests before and after it's impossible to say for sure exactly what's going on. However, it's still a gain so I will continue - my FMD#4 starts tomorrow.
One other difference between my first and last sessions was that, once keto had kicked in at lunchtime on day 2, on session 1 I ran a temporary basal level of 30% of my pre fast level until breaking the fast on morning of day 6. My BG's kept a pretty flat line around 6 to 7 mmoL during the keto phase.
The last session (for the keto phase) I ran a lot less insulin, basically just my early morning "spike" with most of the rest of the day at zero - and my BG levels ran at a pretty steady 9 to 10 mmoL
So this time I will try a 30% basal rate again during keto, and aim to hold my BG's around 6 mmoL - see if that makes a difference.
Going to see my consultant in a couple of weeks - I will ask for a C peptide test but it's all down to NHS budgets....
Cheers - Dave.
@Mr Whippy
That chart looks very impressive. Even if you are only moving forward slowly that is nonetheless positive progress! If you are still alive and feeling relatively good then it will be interesting to hear what your consultant recommends in a couple of weeks too. Congratulations!
kokhongw
Well-Known Member
Attempting a 5 day FMD...here is the 4 days FBG. Pre FMD fasting levels were seeing frequent excursions of 108mg/dl for the past couple of weeks...
Eating 70g of roasted cashew nuts, 20g harvati cheese, 20g 70% dark chocolate..
Let's see how long I can stay in range < 90mg/dl (5.0 mmol/L)
Eating 70g of roasted cashew nuts, 20g harvati cheese, 20g 70% dark chocolate..
Let's see how long I can stay in range < 90mg/dl (5.0 mmol/L)
Living-by-the-beach
Well-Known Member
Attempting a 5 day FMD...here is the 4 days FBG. Pre FMD fasting levels were seeing frequent excursions of 108mg/dl for the past couple of weeks...
Eating 70g of roasted cashew nuts, 20g harvati cheese, 20g 70% dark chocolate..
Let's see how long I can stay in range < 90mg/dl (5.0 mmol/L)
@kokhongw
Those are really (& exceptionally) strong numbers. As a bit of an update, my weight scales are out of commission. I'm going to order a new set, with fat content of my body, so I can get more of an idea where I'm at. I did fall off the FMD this mid week as a result of not having my scales going, yet all is not lost.
I've done a fair amount of cycling since September (4000+ miles), but last night my daughter dragged my sorry body over to the Planet Fitness gym. I've no clue if there's any of these gyms in the UK or if this corporation will migrate to the UK, but I'm sure its coming. Any how I've done two 30 minute workouts with the trainer + two sessions on their TRX machine. It was a serious workout. I'm feeling great. The trainer was intense and he's doing the sessions with us. Although my BMI is 24-ish, I can see with the workouts he's dishing out continued FMD & cycling will crack my problem. I will get my health back.
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Living-by-the-beach
Well-Known Member
@Alexendar
Follow what @Mr Whippy has been doing. Some on this thread are T2's some T1's its different for us all.
LBB
Hoping4Cure
BANNED
It takes two days for your sugar stores to be depleted before you switch into ketosis. Assuming of course you follow the correct macronutrient ratios (9% protein, and the rest evenly between complex green carbs and fat, and at most 700 calories per day). Don't try to work out during FMD.
