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Fasting-Mimicking Diet Promotes Ngn3-Driven β-Cell Regeneration to Reverse Diabetes

Discussion in 'Diabetes Discussions' started by Oldvatr, Feb 24, 2017.

  1. Hoping4Cure

    Hoping4Cure Type 1 · BANNED

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    Exactly. Nobody's going to give you any demerits for ending the fast early, and it'll probably still achieve something regardless. You can always just grab a handful of almonds too, that's what I do when I'm feeling too weak. Just listen to your body, if you're feeling hungry, that's fine. But it comes and goes. Next time I'm going to cut out coffee too, I think.

    I lost ten pounds last week and already put five back on. But I'm sticking to two meals a day from now on, and eating only in the 10-8 time frame.
     
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  2. Living-by-the-beach

    Living-by-the-beach Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    @Hoping4Cure

    Clearly as a T1 losing weight will shrink all organs. Putting weight back on should add cells to your pancreas. Its the ratcheting of organs smaller and larger, that will rid organs via autophagy, of marginal / dying cells. The re-feeding should create new pancreatic beta & liver cells. Do it enough times (if the method works) you'll be non-diabetic. My situation is similar but I'm also trying to remove the visceral fats in and around my liver and pancreas. So long as it isn't impossible I'll keep at it.. Here's what Dr Walford looked like prior: then post-Biosphere 2; then 6 months after: when he was re-fed..
    Dr Walford.png

    The above photo came from this lecture by Professor Valter Longo



    LBB
     
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  3. Hoping4Cure

    Hoping4Cure Type 1 · BANNED

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    Yeah, it seems so obvious now, that the body must eat away at all its tissue when it's starving, perhaps at different rates but eventually it all goes down. And what goes down, must go up! (with food). So re-feeding necessarily has to involve some type of regeneration. It seems like such a banal discovery, when you think about it.

    All this time, I've been trying to induce beta cell regeneration through chemicals like Gastrin, Harmine, GLP-1, but it seems like we truly have much, perhaps all, of the necessary tools (fasting, food, sleep, exercise) to do this at our disposal.

    My next phase of fighting this disease is going to be to add back in long-distance running. The weather's getting there now.
     
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  4. Benjamin Richardson

    Benjamin Richardson Don't have diabetes · Newbie

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    Wow, I had no idea there was such a rich interest and discussion group for Fasting Mimicking Diet here in the UK.

    I do not have diabetes nor am I pre-diabetic but I am very interested in both understanding my blood glucose reaction to foods eaten, improving my insulin sensitivity and longevity generally. For these reasons I recently undertook my own first FMD cycle recently.

    As I review the discussions within this thread, I also offer three resources which may be valuable to others considering FMD. I prepared these before, during and following my first cycle.

    Guide on How perform a Fasting Mimicking Diet
    http://foreverfreefrom.com/fasting-mimicking-diet-guide/

    My personal results, learning points & next steps
    http://foreverfreefrom.com/fasting-mimicking-diet-results/

    Within the Guide I have also made available a Google Sheets template to aid preparation, planning and tracking. Hope it helps, and very happy to respond to questions [​IMG]
     
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  5. Benjamin Richardson

    Benjamin Richardson Don't have diabetes · Newbie

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    Most of Day 3 was absolutely horrible for me in my first FMD cycle. I felt lethargic, had a headache and brain fog, was hungry and daydreamed about food. However I felt enormously better on Days 4 and 5. I also observed that my post-awakening blood glucose was lower and ketones higher on the AM of Day 4. Perhaps this was the reason.

    Hoping you can persist, so long as it remains safe for you :) FMD Glucose & Ketones.jpg
     
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  6. bulkbiker

    bulkbiker Type 2 · Oracle

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    The suggestions for the diet still seem quite high in carbs.. fine if you are non diabetic but not so great if you have Type 2..
    Does fasting really produce worse results? Wouldn't it be easier (as well as cheaper) just to fast for the 5 days? Just a thought..
     
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  7. Benjamin Richardson

    Benjamin Richardson Don't have diabetes · Newbie

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    If you ask me to, I will go and dig out the papers I have seen which back this up, but initially I mention the *risks* of water-fasting as described by the FMD researchers as part of their rationale as including hypoglycemia, hypotension, gall stones and muscle wastage. The biggest *risk* however may be simple non-compliance, with water-fasting being potentially far more challenging than the FMD if it functions as *intended*.

    One of my learning points was that the carb intake appears too high to enable optimal ketosis, and this is for me as a non-diabetic. For my second cycle I intend to reduce the carbs to under 50 grams net (excluding fibre i.e. the UK approach) and if that does not produce the desired outcome I may progress to 50 grams total (including fibre i.e. the US approach). I will eat more fat to compensate. Avocados, get ready.
     
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  8. kokhongw

    kokhongw I reversed my Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Actually it is much easier to just go for a 4-5 days water fast. I believe the whole idea of the FMD is to allow the protocol to be more acceptable in a clinical setting...
     
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  9. bulkbiker

    bulkbiker Type 2 · Oracle

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    Agree with that completely.. my ketones are usually the highest when fasting rather than eating.
    I do consume tea with lactofree full fat milk, coffee with double cream and sometimes broth with a bit of butter. I'm usually less than 20g of carbs per day (UK measure) when eating and less than 10g when "fasting".
    Ketones have been up to 4.7 mmol/l at the end of a 7 day fast which I have done 3 or 4 times.
     
  10. bulkbiker

    bulkbiker Type 2 · Oracle

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    And maybe make some bucks for Prof Longo.. or am I being too cynical...?
     
  11. kokhongw

    kokhongw I reversed my Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    :D I don't think he makes that much money from the FMD...in fact by filing for the patent, he already shared the composition of the FMD...so we are free to create our own FMD...we don't have to buy Prolon
    https://prolonfmd.com/fasting-mimicking-diet/

    https://www.google.com/patents/US9237761

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Valter_Longo#Potential_conflicts_of_interest
    Valter Longo is a founder of a L-Nutra Inc., a company that markets food supplements.[6] However he has stated that he receives no profit from this company , and his goal is to be able to distribute these products at as low cost as possible to patients.[7] He has declared to Italian TV to have donated his quota to charity organizations (Italia 1 channel, Le Iene, October 9, 2016).

    Perhaps I am naive...but I think he is rather altruistic :D
     
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  12. bulkbiker

    bulkbiker Type 2 · Oracle

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    I'm very happy to be proved wrong..
     
  13. Living-by-the-beach

    Living-by-the-beach Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    @Benjamin Richardson

    I gave in last night.. I don't get too foggy but I was a bit funny yesterday, balance was off so I had some kimchee (good probiotic) good for lowering cholesterol I've dropped a huge amount of carbs out of my diet already so I am doing better. 3 days isn't too shabby either!

    I rarely eat a breakfast in the morning these days, so I've got to get a couple of avocados today and get right back to it. I'm having 24 hours off and then do alternate day fasting for a while to mix it up a bit. Or maybe leave it till Saturday and then have another crack at it.. Even though I ate food after cycling last night I had a 107mg/dl number this morning (which considering I ate post workout is a very good control number) weight 197.2lbs. Up a 1lb over yesterday.. I'm not looking particularly for weight loss Per Se but more consumption of the visceral fats (I'm a T2DM) over belly fats. Still I am in 34" pair of jeans at the moment. When diagnosed I had a 39" waist. Its journey. Not a sprint..

    @Benjamin Richardson

    The chart you posted do you have a web reference for that by any chance as that chart is showing a 15 day fast??
     
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  14. bulkbiker

    bulkbiker Type 2 · Oracle

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  15. mark2

    mark2 Type 1 · Member

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    I've been doing this too, I finished my second round of fasting on Sunday.
    I'm not sure that my first round really counts as I had to exceed the limits of the FMD to add sugars to correct my BG. So the first round was more of a trial run really. I also did a 48 hours stint in March to see how I coped.
    I think this is quite tricky for us T1s and I wouldn't advise anyone else to try it without supervision, as previously stated by Dr Longo.

    I found that my daily insulin requirement fell steeply over the fast, so adjusting the basal dose could be quite tricky. I also experienced quite high ketone levels at the end of the fast (6 mmol/L), which was was uncomfortable. It's certainly seems unusual to have a combination of high ketones from lack of insulin and low blood sugar at the same time! It's easy to see how this could escalate and develop into ketoacidosis.

    I'm have CGM, and I've been monitoring my ketone level 2 or 3 times a day during the fast using a Freestyle Neo reader. I've had tests for IGF-1 (very low @ 59ng/mL ) and C-peptide (~nil) on day 2 of round 2 (should have been at the start, I know!), and IGF-1 and blood count on day 5 (no results back yet). I'll be having IGF-1 and C-peptide done again on Monday after 1 week of "refeeding"/ 1st day of round 3.
    I'm highly sceptical, but I plan to keep this cycle of fasting testing going for another few rounds.
     
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  16. Hoping4Cure

    Hoping4Cure Type 1 · BANNED

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    Good call on the kimchee (I love that stuff!). Good gut germs is central to curing this disease, I'm fairly certain. Perhaps it's merely necessary but not sufficient. Fixing the beta-cell signalling is crucial too. (meditation might help with that, ever hear of the vagal tone? diabetics have weak vagal tones and mediation has been shown to restore it)

    But I really don't think it's necessary to quit an entire 5-day FMD period just for one cheat meal. Just get back on the horse and ride on, I saw! Eventually you'll be able to do the whole thing without "cheating". The entire concept of FMD is a cheat, for compliance purposes. And furthermore, 7-day FMD is apparently even more potent.

    If I knew 100% that, say, three 5-day water fasting sessions would reverse my type 1 diabetes entirely, I would certainly try to do it, after practicing 2-3-4 days at a time, gradually. I can do 24 hours no problem, and I think 48 hours is within reach. Maybe I'll even try that next time. I've gone two days with intense exercise and without eating even once (at a rave. hey, I was young. I remember losing 15 pounds). I remember periods of not needing much insulin to keep my sugars stable, despite eating high carb / high protein diet most of my life.
     
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  17. Hoping4Cure

    Hoping4Cure Type 1 · BANNED

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    He specifically said it was to make compliance easy. In a clinical setting, compliance can be enforced / monitored much easier than sending someone home and relying on their will power.
     
  18. Living-by-the-beach

    Living-by-the-beach Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    @Hoping4Cure
    I live near an Asian neighbourhood and I'm able to buy buckets of kimchee for about $10 or about 7Quid. You're right though it is a "Mimicking diet". Having read more today and thinking to my balance issues I had during the fasting it could easily have been the "Fog" that @Benjamin Richardson mentioned in his post today. I know normally if my blood gets "Thick" my balance goes off, so that's why I reached for the kimchee. It really kills the cholesterol numbers. I can get away with murders on my diet as I am putting in insane amounts of exercise. I'm regularly putting in 2 or hours of cycling/day. I have been checking blood pressure and RPR (resting pulse rate) and in that area I'm really really good 114/78 this morning with pulse rate of 63 on wake up. I don't eat breakfasts most mornings so I may hold off for a couple of days and then start on Saturday or Saturday week all over again. Benjamin notes explained that its extremely helpful to get to 4 days of fasting. Well I will get there the next time up. FBG today was 107 mg /dl even with no exercise post eating.. That is super number in light that it was a meal that was eaten around 6.45pm. I 'm doing well.

    LBB
     
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  19. Living-by-the-beach

    Living-by-the-beach Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    @Benjamin Richardson

    Thank you for the links

    http://foreverfreefrom.com/fasting-mimicking-diet-guide/

    https://thequantifiedbody.net/fast-mimicking-diet/

    Very informative..
     
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  20. Living-by-the-beach

    Living-by-the-beach Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    I had a few days off from fasting and got going again on Friday night 28th of April. I didn't test on Saturday morning but I've been more strict with diet. So yesterday (Saturday) I had a large avocado a handful of almonds and handful of walnut nuts. I had two cups of chicken bone broth too. Two cups of black coffee along with plenty of water also.

    I checked my weight yesterday (on Saturday) and I came in at 197lbs . Today I am 195.4lbs. I did cycle an easy 8 miles yesterday.. I am not feeling hungry and my feet feel very good vis a vis the normal neuropathy.. I tested FBG this morning and came in with 93mg/dl (or 5.2mmol/l), a good number. Last Sunday on the 23rd a full week ago I tested for an FBG and it came in at 96mg/dl (or 5.3mmol/l), so in a sense I've actually improved my FBG by 3% (give or take). Thus I am feeling very good.at the moment. I'm going to keep myself fully hydrated and not too stressed with work or exercising..THRILLED..
     
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