Fat - is it really bad/good?

[ghost_whistler]

I


I think you have actually been reading to much and totally confused yourself there is such a thing as to much information you don't need all that just be sensible. You have not been diagnosed with anything yet it is likely you may not have anything wrong so wait until you know. If you really want to do anything at all nowlower or cut out the starchy carbs and sugar eat more fat if you want to and I am sure you will loose some weight and your BG will be fine but it will not happen overnight

I'm trying to act now because it will be months before i see a specialist. I don't even think they've typed the letter yet!

I have lowered the carbs, starchy or otherwise (there doesn't seem much difference in terms of quality), as well as sugar.

 

[andyjax]

I'm trying to act now because it will be months before i see a specialist. I don't even think they've typed the letter yet!

I have lowered the carbs, starchy or otherwise (there doesn't seem much difference in terms of quality), as well as sugar.

Just cut out sugar, bread, rice, wheat products & non berry fruits except Avocado, I aim for under 20 grams of carbs for the whole day, the less the better.
Ketosis will kick in when your body sees there are no more carbs & sugars it will start to run in it's natural fat burning mode switching from carb fuels.
The state of Ketosis will also make brain fuel as part of the fat burning process so you will not miss anything from carbs.
This Keto Flu that is spoken of is just a quick adjustment not a dire dread, you sound like you think it's the plague, I have been doing this for 5 weeks now & I didn't even get it.
The fat in the things you are allowed to eat helps you stay full once Keto adaption occurs, for me it happened after about 3 days, I don't even feel like eating more than 1.5 meals a day.
I have lost a stone & a quarter so far, it works better than all other diets I have tried; I plan on sticking to this way of eating from this moment on.
Bread, cereals & Sugar is a racket & so is the Governments so called health Pyramid food guide which seems to be formulated to help food businesses & the sugar producers.
Do not Drink Fruit Juices They are not healthy & contain teaspoons of natural sugar also Don't drink Lager, Wine or Cider if you must Drink try spirits with diet mixers but ideally no Alcohol at all.

 

[ghost_whistler]

Just cut out sugar, bread, rice, wheat products & non berry fruits except Avocado, I aim for under 20 grams of carbs for the whole day, the less the better.
Ketosis will kick in when your body sees there are no more carbs & sugars it will start to run in it's natural fat burning mode switching from carb fuels.
The state of Ketosis will also make brain fuel as part of the fat burning process so you will not miss anything from carbs.
This Keto Flu that is spoken of is just a quick adjustment not a dire dread, you sound like you think it's the plague, I have been doing this for 5 weeks now & I didn't even get it.
The fat in the things you are allowed to eat helps you stay full once Keto adaption occurs, for me it happened after about 3 days, I don't even feel like eating more than 1.5 meals a day.
I have lost a stone & a quarter so far, it works better than all other diets I have tried; I plan on sticking to this way of eating from this moment on.
Bread, cereals & Sugar is a racket & so is the Governments so called health Pyramid food guide which seems to be formulated to help food businesses & the sugar producers.
Do not Drink Fruit Juices They are not healthy & contain teaspoons of natural sugar also Don't drink Lager, Wine or Cider if you must Drink try spirits with diet mixers but ideally no Alcohol at all.

How did you know you had adapted? Did you test yourself with one of those kits?

I'm on day 8 and i've not noticed any difference along those lines.

If it's helping you then great.

Perhaps if one is really carb-sensitive (perhaps i am) then you won't adapt unless you're at an even lower amount.

 

[Mr_Pot]

Hi @ghost_whistler - I can't see from this thread what it is you are trying to do and why?

 

[andyjax]

How did you know you had adapted? Did you test yourself with one of those kits?

I'm on day 8 and i've not noticed any difference along those lines.

If it's helping you then great.

Perhaps if one is really carb-sensitive (perhaps i am) then you won't adapt unless you're at an even lower amount.

Initially In the run up to starting Keto I had been tapering my carbs in anticipation, it may be that you have lots of carbs stored as glycogen in your muscles, this will need to be depleted for you to enter Ketosis.
When you are in Ketosis you will notice a difference in scent both breath & urine, I know what to look for I have been in Ketosis before, on previous diets.
The breath thing is not bad breath it's just a different kind of scent & taste.

Just to add this is not the sort of diet you can cheat at, as 1 slip up like a can of full sugar coke or bag of crisps or slices of bread could slow, delay or stall your state of Ketosis.

 

[BrianTheElder]

How long did it take your body to adapt? Did you experience the keto fly side effects?

Hi
It took 2-3 weeks I think . If I had had my ketone meter at the time, I would know better. The keto flu lasted about 4 days as advertised. It's not as bad as flu, just a bit down and irritable. Problem is, every time I come out of ketosis I have to go through it again for 4 days, although it helps knowing what's happening. That's why I try really hard to stay in ketosis.
I have to say the main problem I have had is constipation. Drinking lots of water is supposed to help and I do that, but problem persisted until Bulk Biker recommended I use magnesium citrate, which is effective. Drinking a lot of water also helps because you wee a lot and can become dehydrated (which is the main cause of keto flu, I think).

 

[ghost_whistler]

Hi @ghost_whistler - I can't see from this thread what it is you are trying to do and why?

i cut my carbs to deal with blood sugar crashes.

I'm interestedin the ketosgenic diet, since, by definition, that's what you're doing if you cut carbs sufficiently, as I have.

 

[Chook]

Not everyone gets keto flu - you might be one of the lucky ones!

As for constipation, the best recommendation is psyllium husk - no chemicals - and if you've got some left you can always use it for making keto garlic bread which is gorgeous. Getting night time cramps in your legs is another quite common side effect which I have suffered from but nowadays I use a very small amount of magnesium (just half a low dose tablet) each day and that works very well.

If you do feel a bit 'off' try drinking half an oxo cube in hot water or some bovril (the red label one) they both seem to work just about the same - replacing the salt you aren't getting in your food any more and helping to rehydrate you..

 

[ghost_whistler]

There must be more people in this forum familiar with this state if they are eating low (enough) carbs. After all if one cuts cabs heavily enough, and people seem to agree that carbs are unhealthy, then ultimately one becomes ketotic, do they not?

Atkins seems to recommend it has a temporary thing, why so?

 

[Lamont D]

[QUOTE="ghost_whistler, post: 1379872, member: 365495"

Atkins seems to recommend it has a temporary thing, why so?[/QUOTE]

Because the Atkins style of 'diet' is not sustainable!
It is the sudden shock of no carbs, that makes Atkins work!

It has a lot to do with the necessary vitamins and minerals we need that is lacking!

A LCHF diet is sustainable because it includes supplements and vitamins if you need them!
A ketogenic diet is also sustainable because of the wide variety of food that you can eat, that don't raise blood glucose levels significantly!

I would add, if, and I mean if you are hypoglycaemic, you will need a personal low carb diet, suited to your taste, food choice, ethnic background and religious beliefs.
And the food you cannot tolerate.

There is a reason why you could be hypoglycaemic, the only treatment on offer is a restricted low carb diet! You have to find a way to bring this about into your daily requirements and needs! You do have to address your reluctance to low carbing.
Because if you are, this is the only way forward!

Even if you don't have hypoglycaemia, low carb will have no issues!
You are already seeing benefits!

You do need a diagnosis!!
This will also help in decision-making!

 

[Resurgam]

It is described as a temporary thing as Dr Atkins describes using the first two stages as the main time for weightloss, then in the third stage with increasing amounts of carbs being eaten you aren't in ketosis all the time but are switching to burning glucose more and more frequently as you approach your goal weight or situation.

 

[ghost_whistler]

Because the Atkins style of 'diet' is not sustainable!
It is the sudden shock of no carbs, that makes Atkins work!

It has a lot to do with the necessary vitamins and minerals we need that is lacking!

A LCHF diet is sustainable because it includes supplements and vitamins if you need them!
A ketogenic diet is also sustainable because of the wide variety of food that you can eat, that don't raise blood glucose levels significantly!

I would add, if, and I mean if you are hypoglycaemic, you will need a personal low carb diet, suited to your taste, food choice, ethnic background and religious beliefs.
And the food you cannot tolerate.

There is a reason why you could be hypoglycaemic, the only treatment on offer is a restricted low carb diet! You have to find a way to bring this about into your daily requirements and needs! You do have to address your reluctance to low carbing.
Because if you are, this is the only way forward!

Even if you don't have hypoglycaemia, low carb will have no issues!
You are already seeing benefits!

You do need a diagnosis!!
This will also help in decision-making!

I can't hurry along the NHS unfortunately. I'll get a diagnosis whenever they get around to giving me an appointment (hopefully). But when they last tested me they found nothing. So my feeling is that it's diet based.

It was my understanding that Atkins is simply low carb. That the first phase uses ketosis, but then later phases build up more carbs back into your diet. I'm not clear what you mean by no carbs, because it seems to use the same ratio of carbs as ketogenic dieting.

I'm not sure what you mean when you say there is a reason you could be hypoglycemic.

I tried to explain my reluctance above. It isn't reluctance to reduce carbs per se. It is the nature of the diet, in that is quite radical to my way of thinking (certainly never eaten like that before), relies on changing the body to a secondary metabolic state we don't otherwise normally use (for whatever reason), and promotes a controversial intake of fat that goes against existing dietary requirements. I don't think that's a list of unreasonable things to feel reluctant about. I've been eating like this for 8 days, which may or may not mean anything.

 

[ghost_whistler]

It is described as a temporary thing as Dr Atkins describes using the first two stages as the main time for weightloss, then in the third stage with increasing amounts of carbs being eaten you aren't in ketosis all the time but are switching to burning glucose more and more frequently as you approach your goal weight or situation.

Thanks, but i'm really asking why he uses it temporarily.

 

[Resurgam]

Eating low carb is totally sustainable - that is why there is a maintenance section. By the time someone has done the first three sections they know what they can eat, and how much of it in order to lose a little weight or not - as long as they are following the way of eating as envisaged.
If the weather is bad enough to curtail exercise then eating fewer carbs will ensure that weight remains stable, and similarly, taking up some new sport or doing an extra few hours or another day each week might require a few more grams of carb each day to prevent further weightloss.
There is no stage of doing Atkins where there are no carbs included - not in the versions I have seen. There is the fat fast for those who are very resistant to weightloss, but it is intended for a few days to kickstart a reluctant metabolism into ketosis, but there are warnings against it if you have a normal metabolism.
I did Atkins on maintenance levels throughout my first pregnancy and for much of my second - I mentioned Atkins and was threatened with being taken to hospital. I was given a diet sheet and strict instructions to eat grains and heavy carbs. A month later I had pre eclampsia and was threatened with hospital again, so I went back to eating low carb foods and it went away. Smug doctor - stupid fool.

 

[Mr_Pot]

I can't hurry along the NHS unfortunately. I'll get a diagnosis whenever they get around to giving me an appointment (hopefully). But when they last tested me they found nothing.

Instead of fretting about ketosis, Atkins etc. when you don't know what's wrong, if anything, why not wait until you get a diagnosis. A moderately low carb diet is not going to do you any harm in the meantime.

 

[ghost_whistler]

Instead of fretting about ketosis, Atkins etc. when you don't know what's wrong, if anything, why not wait until you get a diagnosis. A moderately low carb diet is not going to do you any harm in the meantime.

what would you define as a moderate carb intake?

 

[Mr_Pot]

what would you define as a moderate carb intake?

I have about 80 gms of carbs a day which keeps me at non diabetic Hba1c levels. I am just suggesting you might want do something similar before you get your diagnosis, rather than attempt anything extreme which might be the wrong thing anyway.

 

[ghost_whistler]

I have about 80 gms of carbs a day which keeps me at non diabetic Hba1c levels. I am just suggesting you might want do something similar before you get your diagnosis, rather than attempt anything extreme which might be the wrong thing anyway.

That would still be seen as low, surely? Have you eaten that way for a long time, may I ask?

 

[Brunneria]

Just out of interest @ghost_whistler how are you feeling, and how are your blood glucose levels on this new keto way of eating?

Most people get 'carb flu' in the first few days, if they are going to get it at all. So you may have whizzed through that phase without experiencing anything flu-like.

Re Atkins, all the different phases of the Atkins Induction through to maintenance allow for vegetables (and therefore carbs) and the intention is to go low, then slowly increase carbs to the personal tolerance level for weight loss, then later to increase again to the personal tolerance for weight maintenance.

Unfortunately, none of us know what our personal tolerance is, until we have tried it. I am always very envious of people who do well on 80g carbs a day (or more). From what I have seen in posts on the forum, people seem to fall into different 'bands'. Some do well at 100-130g or more, others flourish at around 80g, a minority need the 30-60g band. Others need lower. It all depends on our bodies, and the food choices we make, after all, 20g carbs from leafy green veg is very different from 20g from thick white toasted.

 

[Pinkorchid]

I'm trying to act now because it will be months before i see a specialist. I don't even think they've typed the letter yet!

I have lowered the carbs, starchy or otherwise (there doesn't seem much difference in terms of quality), as well as sugar.

QUOTE]
Just do what you are doing as above lowering the starchy carbs and sugar if you feel you need to do anything at all at this point you do not need to do any more than that while you do not have a diagnosis because chances are you have not got anything wrong with you at all. Your symptoms could just be caused by stress which you seem to have a lot of even getting rather paranoid. You have already been told you do not have diabetes so that's good most people would be happy with that. The more you read on the internet the more conflicting views and opinions you will see to confuse you and make you even more stressed