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Fatty Liver ? not only ND but also Keto can help..

I buy into the hypothesis between visceral fat and especially fatty liver aiding and abetting insulin resistance and Type 2.

As LCHF works well for losing weight, and visceral fat goes first, along with fatty liver, it would make perfect sense that the increased therapeutic version of LCHF i.e. Keto would perform at least the same (I would say it gets the results quicker).

This is not low calorie bashing, but this is interesting:
https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&s...FjACegQIBhAB&usg=AOvVaw1mq6mQQ3IrrbG7l_GxC21o
 
My fatty liver got worse as I lost weight! It was consuming too much fructose in my case. Fructose goes directly to liver and is stored as fat I have read.
D.
 
bulkbiker said:
I think that the study was however one of the first to use a "proper" human ketogenic diet to look at the effects on liver fat so in that sense it is "groundbreaking" as "proper" ketogenic diets are rarely looked at especially in rodent studies where the poor animals are fed on things that would probably kill us..



Similar but not the same.. Both are saying that ketogenic diets have an impact on liver health. In the pre surgery one the liver shrank and in the other the fat reduced (possibly also resulting in liver shrinkage?). Win win for the subjects' livers and health overall.
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Is there anybway of knowing, other than a scan, if you have reduced fatty liver?
 
Indy51 said:
Saw this tweet on George Henderson's feed and thought this might be a good place to post it:

https://twitter.com/puddleg/status/973688279949176832

The study where pancreatic and liver fat measured after weight loss is: http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa0708681
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Thanks for this - very interesting stuff. This bit stood out for me: Consumption of monounsaturated fats is thought to improve insulin sensitivity,14,31,32 an effect that may explain the favorable effect of the Mediterranean diet on glucose and insulin levels.
 
eggs11 said:
Thanks for this - very interesting stuff. This bit stood out for me: Consumption of monounsaturated fats is thought to improve insulin sensitivity,14,31,32 an effect that may explain the favorable effect of the Mediterranean diet on glucose and insulin levels.
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I need to digest this information in more detail, but on my brief inspection, it seems to me the low carb diet came out on top, particularly for HbA1c and lipids.

EDIT to add. The low carb group showed a deterioration in some aspects from 6 months onward - they were allowed to increase carbs from 20g to 120g. after the initial 2 months.
 
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Mbaker said:
I buy into the hypothesis between visceral fat and especially fatty liver aiding and abetting insulin resistance and Type 2.

As LCHF works well for losing weight, and visceral fat goes first, along with fatty liver, it would make perfect sense that the increased therapeutic version of LCHF i.e. Keto would perform at least the same (I would say it gets the results quicker).

This is not low calorie bashing, but this is interesting:
https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&s...FjACegQIBhAB&usg=AOvVaw1mq6mQQ3IrrbG7l_GxC21o
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Its as interesting looking at the wide variation in the different studies, in both the average amount of weight lost within, rather than between the low carb / low cal, groups.
It is also v interesting seeing how the length of the study seems to interact with both total weight loss and the differential between different diets.- scrolling down the table virtually all of the 2 year studies show significantly lower weight loss in both diet arms than in shorter duration studies, with the difference between diet arms also narrowing and flip flopping between which approach produces the greater weight loss.
 
Bluetit1802 said:
I need to digest this information in more detail, but on my brief inspection, it seems to me the low carb diet came out on top, particularly for HbA1c and lipids.
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Yes - with fasting glucose improved in mediterranean - which is interesting. I'm not very good at reading detailed reports like this - little bits jump out at me, will have to read again later when I have more time.
 
Boo1979 said:
Its as interesting looking at the wide variation in the different studies, in both the average amount of weight lost within, rather than between the low carb / low cal, groups.
It is also v interesting seeing how the length of the study seems to interact with both total weight loss and the differential between different diets.- scrolling down the table virtually all of the 2 year studies show significantly lower weight loss in both diet arms than in shorter duration studies, with the difference between diet arms also narrowing and flip flopping between which approach produces the greater weight loss.
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This is true, however a well formulated LCHF / Keto (fasting) diet does not lower the metabolism which for me is vital. In my view is easier to stick to, due to no calorie counting and not worrying about good fats and quantities of certain food types.

The recent government adverts to have 400-600-600 low calorie meals with snacks to get to either 2000 or 2500 calories I feel is counter intuitive for those with metabolic issues.

I believe the low calorie thinking is also that a calorie is a calorie. I think Dr Lustig and Fung have put good arguments to the contrary. In my case at my peak of nuttiness (consuming 7 different types of nuts each day), I was eating between 2800 and 3000 calories of nuts alone, along with 2 LCHF meals; if a calorie were a calorie (and all treated by the body the same way) I would have been the size of a bus and not maintained a steady weight at the time (circa 87 kg).

Professor Roy Taylor says that for the ND low calorie diet to work, at the refeeding phase one has to reduce original calories by 25% (for me this would not work). I have seen many studies that show the failure rate of low calorie at over 90%, so it appears that not many get to 2 years - I do not have the figures for LCHF / Keto, but judging by the results of foreign Doctors, and our own Dr Unwin, Diet Doctor and the success stories on this website, I would guess stickability is high.

I think low calorie food is unnatural. How can it be better to remove nature's fat, in general add sugar and further additives and make out this is healthier - I am open minded but on this point I do have a closed view.

Edited to add paragraph that a calorie is not a calorie in my view and the reduction in calories when refeeding should have been 25% not 33%.
 
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Mbaker said:
This is true, however a well formulated LCHF / Keto (fasting) diet does not lower the metabolism which for me is vital. In my view is easier to stick to, due to no calorie counting and not worrying about good fats and quantities of certain food types.

The recent government adverts to have 400-600-600 low calorie meals with snacks to get to either 2000 or 2500 calories I feel is counter intuitive for those with metabolic issues.

Professor Roy Taylor says that for the ND low calorie diet to work, at the refeeding phase one has to reduce original calories by a third (for me this would not work). I have seen many studies that show the failure rate of low calorie at over 90%, so it appears that not many get to 2 years - I do not have the figures for LCHF / Keto, but judging by the results of foreign Doctors, and our own Dr Unwind, Diet Doctor and the success stories on this website, I would guess stickability is high.

I think low calorie food is unnatural. How can it be better to remove nature's fat, in general add sugar and further additives and make out this is healthier - I am open minded but on this point I do have a closed view.
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I think it is Dr. Unwin, actually!:)
But on LCHF I don't get much wind or what I call now "an American president!" ;)
D.
 
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