1. Get the Diabetes Forum App for your phone - available on iOS and Android.
    Dismiss Notice
  2. Guest, we'd love to know what you think about the forum! Take the Diabetes Forum Survey 2021 »
    Dismiss Notice
  3. Diabetes Forum should not be used in an emergency and does not replace your healthcare professional relationship. Posts can be seen by the public.
    Dismiss Notice
  4. Guest, stay home, stay safe, save the NHS. Stay up to date with information about keeping yourself and people around you safe here and GOV.UK: Coronavirus (COVID-19). Think you have symptoms? NHS 111 service is available here.
    Dismiss Notice
Dismiss Notice
Find support, ask questions and share your experiences. Join the community »

Fatty Liver

Discussion in 'Type 2 Diabetes' started by spendercat, Oct 13, 2016.

  1. NoCrbs4Me

    NoCrbs4Me I reversed my Type 2 · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    3,699
    Likes Received:
    9,089
    Trophy Points:
    198
    He's a pretty smart guy. I wouldn't dismiss his ideas too casually.
     
  2. lindisfel

    lindisfel · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    3,437
    Likes Received:
    3,770
    Trophy Points:
    158
    My eldest is a long standing GP and I don't always agree with her! Not even the Pope is always right! :);)

     
    • Informative Informative x 2
  3. NoCrbs4Me

    NoCrbs4Me I reversed my Type 2 · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    3,699
    Likes Received:
    9,089
    Trophy Points:
    198
    I seldom agree with GPs. I didn't say you should believe Kendrick because he is smart or a GP. I didn't even say you should agree with him or even that I agreed with him. Rather, I suggested that because he is smart, his ideas shouldn't be casually dismissed. You can believe or not believe whatever you want to, I suppose, but I think Kendrick makes some persuasive arguments. If you haven't read his book, you should before passing final judgement.
     
    • Agree Agree x 2
    • Informative Informative x 1
  4. lindisfel

    lindisfel · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    3,437
    Likes Received:
    3,770
    Trophy Points:
    158
    You are making an assumption. I do not dismiss anyone casually. Kendrick may write cogently on cholesterol but in his recent series of articles, have you read them? He argues diet has no bearing on heart disease. I have read them all and he is clearly wrong and diametrically opposed to the father of the insulin assay the pathologist Dr.Kraft. High carb diets produce high insulin that inflames arteries, causes hypertension and heart attacks in diabetics. It is only when we go LCHF we reverse this problem and our bps come down. If Kendrick doesn't believe it, he hasn't come up with a better theory. There are other points he makes that many medics would dispute, like high salt intake does not cause hypertension. It does, particularly in those who produce too much aldosterone. Many take bp meds to counteract this affect since I have Conn's I am fully conversant with the affect of sodium on my body . D.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
    • Informative Informative x 1
    #84 lindisfel, Nov 7, 2016 at 10:19 PM
    Last edited: Nov 7, 2016
  5. NoCrbs4Me

    NoCrbs4Me I reversed my Type 2 · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    3,699
    Likes Received:
    9,089
    Trophy Points:
    198
    No, I never assume.
     
  6. George_Henderson

    George_Henderson Don't have diabetes · Member

    Messages:
    8
    Likes Received:
    5
    Trophy Points:
    43
    The most commonly used microorganisms are within the genera Bifidobaceria and Lactobacillus. VSL#3 is a multi-strain preparation available in the EU composed of Bifidobacterium longum, Bifidobacterium breve, Bifidobacterium infants, Lactobacillus casei, Lactobacillus plantarum, Lactobacillus acidophilus, Lactobacillus delbrueckii subsp. bulgaricus, and Streptococcus thermophiles.
    These, or some mix thereof, are the microbes in most commercial probiotics.
     
    • Informative Informative x 3
  7. George_Henderson

    George_Henderson Don't have diabetes · Member

    Messages:
    8
    Likes Received:
    5
    Trophy Points:
    43
    Yes, I did say that probiotics help with the inflammatory aspect, with the risk of NAFLD turning to NASH or cirrhosis. Just restricting refined carbs and increasing animal fat is going to kill off bacterial overgrowth in most people. But I'm not claiming (as some do) that bacteria run the whole show. Dietary change will reverse NAFLD without probiotics, that has been shown enough times.
     
    • Informative Informative x 4
  8. PNJB

    PNJB Type 2 · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    136
    Likes Received:
    214
    Trophy Points:
    103
    Spendercat, When you have had an Hb1Ac test done, ALWAYS ring the surgery and ASK FOR A PRINTED COPY OF THE RESULTS! This shows you what tests were done, what the target figures for each test is, and what your reading was. Regarding "Fatty Liver", the target on test XaLJx is 7 to 40. mine is currently 42, so just outside range. On your results sheet Fatty Liver is called "Serum Alanine Aminotransferase Level". Remind yourself not to accept a standard "Satisfactory" over the phone but collect a print out and examine it (or turn it into a Results Spreadsheet to monitor your progress, and give you questions to discuss with your GP
     
    • Like Like x 2
    • Agree Agree x 2
    • Informative Informative x 1
  9. spendercat

    spendercat Type 2 · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    274
    Likes Received:
    99
    Trophy Points:
    68
    cheers PNJB, will do that.
    I must say, a lot of this discussion has been right over my head.
    Still pursuing though.
     
    • Friendly Friendly x 1
  10. Salvia

    Salvia Prediabetes · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    812
    Likes Received:
    726
    Trophy Points:
    133
    Hi PNJB, I was pleased to find your info just now - it has helped explain some of my test results. I have a print out, but not yet seen GP to get full details of what the figures mean. Now I know that XaLjx relates to fatty liver, many thanks. The range used by my GP is 5.0 - 41.0, and my result is 15 U/L (whatever that is). Can you tell me, which end of the range are we aiming for - higher or lower? Is 15 U/L good, bad or medium?

    There are several other 'X... type things as well, but I won't push my luck for more info just yet :D
     
    • Like Like x 1
  11. PNJB

    PNJB Type 2 · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    136
    Likes Received:
    214
    Trophy Points:
    103
    Optimally Salvia, you want to be somewhere in the middle. E. G,Normal BMI for a man is 18 to 25, You are regarded as healthy between those two range limits, If you can reach 23, you are neither too high, nor too low. In the same way, the ranges shown on your Hb1Ac print out defines the ranges, but again optimally, you would like to be mid-range in all of them, although it is not a catastrophe if you are at the upper range. (It just means you are closer to the brink in slipping into being over target like my 42 reading was. The point of obtaining the print-outs of your readings, was to identify under or over ranges so you can discuss it with your GP.
    The mid range point of your 5 - 41 is ((41-5)/2 = 18 , so your 15 u/L is just a little under midway of the range, and as such is deemed still healthy.
     
    • Informative Informative x 2
    #91 PNJB, Nov 19, 2016 at 10:15 PM
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2016
  12. Salvia

    Salvia Prediabetes · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    812
    Likes Received:
    726
    Trophy Points:
    133
    Thanks again PNJB, very grateful for the explanation. Having ranges to aim for is useful, simply because there is a range and not just one number to aim for (and probably miss). I guessed that being below range was probably better than above range - but that may not always be true, so I try not to assume. I was a bit bothered in case I need to do any specific serious work on reducing fat in liver, or just keep doing what I'm doing and (hopefully) gradually eliminate any remaining fat.

    I haven't got the HbA1c yet, for some reason, but hope I'll get it when I see the GP. Problem with my GP is that she's reluctant to discuss or expand on anything, I think because she doesn't have the time to explain and if things are 'normal' there's no need to go into details. Plus, I suspect, there's an element of 'the less patients know the less they will question or fret about it'. We only get 10 mins per appointment, & even when I arrange a double for 20 min. she's always running late, so is always rushed. If I can find out what's what beforehand, then at least I'm armed with the right questions by the time I get to see her, or I don't bother to ask coz I already know the answer.

    Anyway, thanks again for your time & info - much appreciated.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  13. PNJB

    PNJB Type 2 · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    136
    Likes Received:
    214
    Trophy Points:
    103
    Salvia, There are 2 types of GP (The Patrician who gives you an aspirin for your headache, and the Holistic who identifies why you have a headache). Sounds like yours is a "Patrician"! That your GP does not like discussing or expanding information is deplorable, and (IMO) needs changing rapidly!!! (I expect and demand my GP discusses and plans WITH me not FOR me, and identifies ANY risks!). Regarding not feeling rushed, I ALWAYS write my questions down on a sheet of paper and hand it to the GP. He LOVES this, and notes the answers as he discusses with me for when I leave. I NEVER feel rushed or unheeded. Regarding your readings, it is important to understand that if your readings are within the range, they are GOOD! If they are mid-range, they are BETTER, because there is more room for variance before they are out of range. No one wants to waste a GP's time, but NEVER feel you are an imposition. That appointment time is YOURS and no-one else's, so as long as you are not just chit-chatting, do not feel guilty about wasting his/her time. My "Fatty Liver" (ALT) was 42, just outside the upper range of 40. I discussed this with my GP who told me that continuing my weight loss (LCHF) would quickly bring me back into range, which on my latest Hb1Ac results just received, it has.
     
    • Like Like x 3
    #93 PNJB, Nov 20, 2016 at 9:16 AM
    Last edited: Nov 21, 2016
  14. Petrel

    Petrel Type 2 · Member

    Messages:
    16
    Likes Received:
    29
    Trophy Points:
    53
    some things in this theory don't make sense to me. Like why are the bad guys so strong and vigorous and the good ones wilt and die easily. Why are the good ones so feeble that they need probiotics every day but the bad guys don't need that to thrive.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  15. PNJB

    PNJB Type 2 · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    136
    Likes Received:
    214
    Trophy Points:
    103
    To wax lyrical Petrel, perhaps if you think of each as different armies in battle. Either side can win, so giving the "goodies" additional support" tips the balance in their favour, rather than risk them losing to the "baddies" and the detriment of your health. Basically, you are throwing as much support in to aid the healthy attributes, so they are not overcome.
     
    • Like Like x 4
  16. kokhongw

    kokhongw I reversed my Type 2 · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    2,395
    Likes Received:
    1,691
    Trophy Points:
    198
    It looks like FGF1 protein will be the next miracle agent for T2D, Alzheimer and NAFLD...

    Effective treatment of steatosis and steatohepatitis by fibroblast growth factor 1 in mouse models of nonalcoholic fatty liver disease.
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26858440
    On a separate study...
    http://www.nature.com/onc/journal/v22/n28/full/1206499a.html
     
  17. spendercat

    spendercat Type 2 · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    274
    Likes Received:
    99
    Trophy Points:
    68
    We don't really have bad guys and good guys in our gut biomes. We have a whole crowd of highly specialised guys and quite a lot of footsloggers. The problem is that our modern high sugar diet causes some of the perfectly good guys to multiply too fast and that throws the balance of our bodies microbes out.
    I don't know why we should need a constant input of biotic foods, except that it is probably what we evolved for. I only know that following a youth and early adulthood of constant IBS type problems, adopting a gluten free and highly probiotic diet kept me fundamentally healthy for nearly thirty years.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  18. Indy51

    Indy51 Type 2 · Expert

    Messages:
    5,545
    Likes Received:
    6,350
    Trophy Points:
    178
    • Informative Informative x 3
    • Like Like x 1
    • Agree Agree x 1
  19. lindisfel

    lindisfel · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    3,437
    Likes Received:
    3,770
    Trophy Points:
    158
    I cut my fructose to almost zero / day for a month and my GGT barely changed. 76-75. I am now trying probiotics for a couple of months until my next test to see if they work as was suggested. regards Derek
     
    • Like Like x 1
  20. robertconroy

    robertconroy Type 2 · Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    183
    Likes Received:
    108
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Eat more protein, more fiber, and more fat. Only high glycemic load plant foods will spike blood sugar and insulin. Insulin is the fat storage hormone.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  • Meet the Community

    Find support, connect with others, ask questions and share your experiences with people with diabetes, their carers and family.

    Did you know: 7 out of 10 people improve their understanding of diabetes within 6 months of being a Diabetes Forum member. Get the Diabetes Forum App and stay connected on iOS and Android

    Grab the app!
  • Tweet with us

  • Like us on Facebook