Has this advice worked for anyone??

[Cocosilk]

I wanted to say "What kind of advice is this?" because it's so against what most people here recommend...

Who is this guy? And could his advice really work for diabetics??

Or is this just the outdated fat fearing advice plus the recent push to encourage everyone to be vegetarian?

Has anyone here had success at reversing their diabetes by avoiding fats and by eating "healthy" carbs?

I'm only curious personally as I seem to be a "hyper responder" when it comes to higher cholesterol on a low carb diet (and I know I have some sdLDL despite having good HDL and Trigs. Could be residual from when I was still eating a lot more carbs just over 8 months ago. Maybe it takes more than a year to get rid of sdLDL on a stricter low carb diet than what I have been doing.... But I sometimes question whether eating higher fat is really the right thing to do if I am one of those with higher cholesterol when not everyone on a low carb diet ends up that way...)

 

[bulkbiker]

Barnard is one of the better known vegan advocates..
Famous for his study of the effects of a plant based diet on T2 which weren't great long term... check out the scale on the Y axis..

This was vegan against SAD.. my last HbA1c was 4.6% 6.5% is a T2 diagnosis in the UK

 

[Cocosilk]

Barnard is one of the better known vegan advocates..
Famous for his study of the effects of a plant based diet on T2 which weren't great long term... check out the scale on the Y axis.. View attachment 36771

This was vegan against SAD.. my last HbA1c was 4.6% 6.5% is a T2 diagnosis in the UK

Was it from this study? https://care.diabetesjournals.org/content/29/8/1777

In other words, they were still in the diabetic range but not as badly diabetic.

So maybe eating vegetarian rather than the SAD is mainly helpful as prevention?

I just wondered about the argument that it's fat that prevents the cells from accepting glucose. I've heard a few people say that.

But it makes sense that sugars are the biggest problem if our bodies can turn everything into glucose and the SAD is full of sugar and carbs.

 

[Rachox]

My total cholesterol when diagnosed with type 2 was 4.7, seemly good, however my triglycerides and ratios were too high. During my years of low carbing since, my total cholesterol rose to a high of 6.6, last test being 6.5, but my triglycerides and ratios are now well down into the normal range. It took me 9 months of low carbing for my figures to right themselves.
Sorry I haven’t viewed the video as vegetarianism is not something I would consider but wanted to comment on your thoughts about cholesterol.

 

[bulkbiker]

Was it from this study? https://care.diabetesjournals.org/content/29/8/1777

In other words, they were still in the diabetic range but not as badly diabetic.

So maybe eating vegetarian rather than the SAD is mainly helpful as prevention?

I just wondered about the argument that it's fat that prevents the cells from accepting glucose. I've heard a few people say that.

But it makes sense that sugars are the biggest problem if our bodies can turn everything into glucose and the SAD is full of sugar and carbs.

No it was this one
The one you quoted was a 12 week trial only

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2677007/

Vegetarian with no processed foods or seed oils may well be better than SAD (and lets face it almost anything would be) however when people make claims about "remission" through a vegan diet then looking at the study a renowned vegan doctor did that showed only a minor improvement then the argument kind of falls flat.

 

[Member496333]

The bloke doesn't have a Scooby.

 

[Resurgam]

My brain and nervous system depend on lipids for their integrity and function - cholesterol coats my nerves and insulates them so the signals do not fade, the cholesterol in my brain doesn't just wander in there from my bloodstream, it was an integral part of it from soon after conception - it is no wonder that I had so much trouble with aches and pains being reported when taking Atorvastatin, even if the muscle was not hurt, the nerves thought it was. I lost all my songs, and had to relearn them, I wandered in a daze, forgetful and absent minded. From time to time, I was very very frightened.
On the low fat 'healthy' carb low calorie diet I despaired of losing weight - I was almost spherical and stopped weighing my self at 264lb. I despaired of ever feeling energetic or gleeful, I felt old. I stopped doing so many things...
Eating animals might be selfish, but this is the only self I have...
Whilst I am alive, I want to live - and go out with the morris dancers, and sing and play music, and remember.

 

[TriciaWs]

As for the blood fats and low carb issues so many doctors raise:
My cholesterol was fine before I was diagnosed but my triglycerides were a bit high - they went down on low carb/higher fat.
After a year on low carb my cholesterol suddenly went up - total, HDL, LDL all up - I was having tests every 3 months and everything had been fine up till then. My GP immediately told me it was the diet but I hadn't changed anything in the previous 3 months, so that didn't make sense to me. I did my own research and discovered the new anxiety pills I'd been put on 3 months before the last test were implicated in raised blood fats. I insisted on coming off them and 3 months later my levels are almost back to normal.
But even if it was the low carb diet, I'd prefer to have my diabetes in remission and risk a 'possible' future cardio event that is based on slightly shaky science. So if I were you, I'd look at other things in my medical profile/drugs/diet and maybe stick on low carb for a little longer to see what happens?

 

[ziggy_w]

Was it from this study? https://care.diabetesjournals.org/content/29/8/1777

In other words, they were still in the diabetic range but not as badly diabetic.

So maybe eating vegetarian rather than the SAD is mainly helpful as prevention?

I just wondered about the argument that it's fat that prevents the cells from accepting glucose. I've heard a few people say that.

But it makes sense that sugars are the biggest problem if our bodies can turn everything into glucose and the SAD is full of sugar and carbs.

Hi @Cocosilk,

My understanding is this: The fat argument stems from experiments where fat was put directly onto the cells and jives with what we know about the role of overfilled adipocytes in insulin resistance.

However, research has also shown that fat in your diet is not the same thing as fat in your fat cells. (An fact often overlooked by Barnard and likes). In fact, carbs in your diet might actually be worse in this respect than fat because the high insulin levels (caused by carb intake) prevent your body from accessing the fat in your fat cells for energy, and thus depleting them.

 

[JohnEGreen]

I'm having a brain fog day so could any body please explain to me what is meant by the label conventional in the graph.

As this was all I could find:

Conventional means that the produce was grown with the addition of pesticides and/or other chemicals during the growing and harvesting process.

Or is it a diet as exemplified by the eat well plate

This is the only list I could find of "conventional foods" those containing pesticides.

Spinach.
Nectarines. ...
Grapes. ...
Sweet bell peppers. ...
Potatoes. ...
Blueberries. Domestic blueberries contained more pesticides than imported ones. ...
Lettuce. Lettuce is one of the most likely vegetables to retain pesticide contamination. ...
Kale/collard greens. One sample of kale and collard greens contained 10 pesticides.

As far as I can see all basically vegetarian or vegan

So what does the grey line labeled conventional actually refer to or is the author just attaching a term to some undefined subjective construct of his own.

Sorry if your going to say it's explained in the video I already have a head ache and didn't want to make it worse by watching it.

 

[bulkbiker]

Or is it a diet as exemplified by the eat well plate

Yes its the conventional diabetes diet i.e. something like Eatwell but the US dietary guidelines.

 

[JohnEGreen]

So a better term would perhaps be Orthodox diet which very few here follow and just one WOE out of a multiple number of various WOEs. or dietary regimes.

 

[Resurgam]

I'm having a brain fog day so could any body please explain to me what is meant by the label conventional in the graph.

So what does the grey line labeled conventional actually refer to or is the author just attaching a term to some undefined subjective construct of his own./QUOTE]
The grey line is the SAD or standard American diet.

 

[Cocosilk]

My brain and nervous system depend on lipids for their integrity and function - cholesterol coats my nerves and insulates them so the signals do not fade, the cholesterol in my brain doesn't just wander in there from my bloodstream, it was an integral part of it from soon after conception - it is no wonder that I had so much trouble with aches and pains being reported when taking Atorvastatin, even if the muscle was not hurt, the nerves thought it was. I lost all my songs, and had to relearn them, I wandered in a daze, forgetful and absent minded. From time to time, I was very very frightened.
On the low fat 'healthy' carb low calorie diet I despaired of losing weight - I was almost spherical and stopped weighing my self at 264lb. I despaired of ever feeling energetic or gleeful, I felt old. I stopped doing so many things...
Eating animals might be selfish, but this is the only self I have...
Whilst I am alive, I want to live - and go out with the morris dancers, and sing and play music, and remember.

Wow, that was poetic . Traumatic too though . I can thank you and others for probably never bothering to dabble with a statin.
I like to sing too. I can imagine how awful losing your songs would be... not something any musician wants to experience.
Do you accept having a higher level of cholesterol as normal on the low carb diet then? How about sdLDL? Does that theory have logic? Did your cholesterol stabilize over a longer time period on low carb?

 

[Cocosilk]

As for the blood fats and low carb issues so many doctors raise:
My cholesterol was fine before I was diagnosed but my triglycerides were a bit high - they went down on low carb/higher fat.
After a year on low carb my cholesterol suddenly went up - total, HDL, LDL all up - I was having tests every 3 months and everything had been fine up till then. My GP immediately told me it was the diet but I hadn't changed anything in the previous 3 months, so that didn't make sense to me. I did my own research and discovered the new anxiety pills I'd been put on 3 months before the last test were implicated in raised blood fats. I insisted on coming off them and 3 months later my levels are almost back to normal.
But even if it was the low carb diet, I'd prefer to have my diabetes in remission and risk a 'possible' future cardio event that is based on slightly shaky science. So if I were you, I'd look at other things in my medical profile/drugs/diet and maybe stick on low carb for a little longer to see what happens?

I haven't tried anxiety pills (unless CalmZyme, with a little valerian root, counts) but I have been breastfeeding for most of the past 5 years so it may just be that. But again, not all breastfeeding mothers end up with 8.4mmol total cholesterol. It was 7.4 mmol from memory a couple of years ago before I was eating low carb. I was eating plenty of good fats then but still indulging my sweet tooth and eating bread, grains and cereals. My HDL and Trigs were fine then too though from memory.
I guess once my littlest one weans I'll get a better idea.
One thing about what's in my medicine cabinet that I had never considered is the steroid cream I've been using for the past 20 years for dermatitis on my hands. I also sometimes need a steroid preventer for asthma and never knew about steroids causing impaired glucose intolerance.

 

[Listlad]

Has anyone here had success at reversing their diabetes by avoiding fats and by eating "healthy" carbs?

No. My success has been achieved by restricting the amount of carbs I eat and upping fats.

 

[Cocosilk]

No. My success has been achieved by restricting the amount of carbs I eat and upping fats.

Did your cholesterol remain stable?

 

[Rachox]

One thing about what's in my medicine cabinet that I had never considered is the steroid cream I've been using for the past 20 years for dermatitis on my hands. I also sometimes need a steroid preventer for asthma and never knew about steroids causing impaired glucose intolerance.

I use both steroid ointment and a steroid inhaler but have been told that neither are absorbed in sufficient quantities to affect blood sugars.

 

[Deleted member 308541]

I use both steroid ointment and a steroid inhaler but have been told that neither are absorbed in sufficient quantities to affect blood sugars.

Same here, I use Corticol ointment for dermatitis when I get a flare up, and Pulmicort, Airomir and Spiriva Respimat inhalers for my copd, I do not even think about any difference in my bgl as that is least of my worries.

 

[Listlad]

Did your cholesterol remain stable?

Good question. I will know at my next check.