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How do I know if my diabetes is "REVERSED"?

bandas said:
Hi Rachax - Thanks for your reply. Sure. I would love to share with you my diet plan. I am not counting the calories as I am pretty poor at it but here is what I am doing and seems like its working.

DP#1: A tiny raw papaya leaf & a raw garlic in the morning.
DP#2: About 2 hours of exercise - 1 hour walking & 1 hour yoga.
DP#3: 2 cups of Green tea, 5-10 raw cashew nuts & about 1 liter of water till 1800 hours.
DP#4: 1 cup of Swiss chard, 1 cup of lettuce, 5-10 raw cashew nuts, 2-3 tomatoes, 1 Orange.
DP#5: About 1:30 hours of walking.
DP#6: About 5-6 cashew nuts at about 2100 hours.
DP#7: Go bed at around 2300 hours.

Hope this helps. Thanks.
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If you are aiming to keep carbs low, you might want to mix up the nute you eat Cashews have the highest carb count of all nut, 6-7 times the carbs of nuts like peacans / brazil nuts and 4-5 times that of almonds etc
 
Mbaker said:
Hi @bandas your before and after meals readings would be indicative of a reversal, however your A1c second result is outside of the desired range; but this is too close to your original test and would have some of the result of the initial A1c due to the measurements takin in a 3 month period - I think you should get another test in around 2.5 months.

I believe I read on this site that around 3 HbA1c's in the normal range below 42 is a consideration for reversal. I am defining reversal as halting the progression of diabetes without drugs, in the knowledge that a return to what is classified as "normal" eating (which I think is abnormal) would revert your condition.

In my opinion you will slam dunk this, but if you are taking any controlling drugs other than metformin, please see your health professional as a matter of urgency as your numbers are enviably low at this stage - congratulations.
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Hi Baker - Thanks for your inputs and technically, it should be a YES, if your pre and post meal readings are normal. But what is frustrating is that medical science seems to having no answer for this. I know the "REVERSAL" is a pretty complex stuff and here is how it should be in my knowledge and correct me if I am wrong:

Diabetes Reversal Protocol 1.0

DRP#1: Know and understand the symptoms of insulin and cortisol resistance first.
DRP#2. Check the insulin resistance, cortisol resistance & hba1c levels
DRP#3: If the insulin resistance and/or cortisol resistance and/or hba1c tests are positive
DRP#3.1: Follow the treatment - perhaps, the diet, intermittent fasting, exercise and medication (if needed) for a few days or weeks depending on the progress of your waist loss
DRP#3.2. Repeat steps DRP#2 through DRP#3.
DRP#4: If the insulin resistance and cortisol resistance and hba1c tests are negative, do nothing.

Please note that the above protocol is as per my knowledge and research only and not scientifically proven or approved. Please consult your doctor before following any and/or all of the above steps in the protocol. It looks like there is a real and an urgent need to find some concrete answers for diabetes. Therefore, this is just based out of my personal research and not for implementation purposes.

Thanks.
 
bandas said:
Ok. Got it. You are doing pretty great on your HBA1C. But I, highly, recommend do research on insulin levels (I am already on it). Make sure your insulin (sugar) and cortisol (stress) levels are good. As per the below given video by Eric (Thanks Eric), here is how diabetes should work:


Diabetes life cycle

DM#1: Certain things related to your life style, including but not limited to, the stress spikes cortisol levels - the cortisol resistance.
DM#2: Cortisol resistance spikes insulin levels - the insulin resistance.
DM#3: Insulin resistance spikes sugar levels - hba1c.

Based on this new finding, I am adding question #E - How do I know if I am out of cortisol resistance?
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These are all questions your endocrologist should be able to answer for you. If your paying for your specialist care, this should be included. Surely?
My nhs endocrologist regularly checks my cortisol levels.
Obviously after bariatric surgery my results should differ. Giving my endocrologist a better fight on my behalf. They aren't miracle workers. Most of the work has to be done by YOU.
 
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Personally I'd know if my diabetes has reversed because I'd stop adding weight without metformin tablets.
Now this occured after 7-8mths of 600cals when I was 15yrs old on firmaloss milkshakes from weilder (bodybuilding product).
To be honest I added visible weight after 1-2 yrs from stopping but not long after that my weight increased with eating real food. I was not encouraged to return onto milkshakes and no other diet worked. (Cabbage soup diet etc..)
It's all about weight for me.

To be honest I'd continue with metformin, for life. Even if I hit reversal because I need all the help I can get to stay that way.
This fight isn't one I want to do regularly. I'm hoping maintanence is easier?
 
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bandas said:
Hi Baker - Thanks for your inputs and technically, it should be a YES, if your pre and post meal readings are normal. But what is frustrating is that medical science seems to having no answer for this. I know the "REVERSAL" is a pretty complex stuff and here is how it should be in my knowledge and correct me if I am wrong:

Diabetes Reversal Protocol 1.0

DRP#1: Know and understand the symptoms of insulin and cortisol resistance first.
DRP#2. Check the insulin resistance, cortisol resistance & hba1c levels
DRP#3: If the insulin resistance and/or cortisol resistance and/or hba1c tests are positive
DRP#3.1: Follow the treatment - perhaps, the diet, intermittent fasting, exercise and medication (if needed) for a few days or weeks depending on the progress of your waist loss
DRP#3.2. Repeat steps DRP#2 through DRP#3.
DRP#4: If the insulin resistance and cortisol resistance and hba1c tests are negative, do nothing.

Please note that the above protocol is as per my knowledge and research only and not scientifically proven or approved. Please consult your doctor before following any and/or all of the above steps in the protocol. It looks like there is a real and an urgent need to find some concrete answers for diabetes. Therefore, this is just based out of my personal research and not for implementation purposes.

Thanks.
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Every day I realise there is more I don't know.
What is Cortisol resistance and how do I check it - and know it?

Mind blowing.
 
Leptin resistance is another @Fleegle but not very relevant to achieving a diabetes reversal.
Hunger hormone which can disturb maintenance, I guess.
Leptin resistance is getting more and more research and publicity, for a reason.
Cortisol resistance however, I would take more seriously as stress refects on bgs enormously, for some.
I believe my liver output has had a huge detriment to my diabetes control.
 
Fleegle said:
Every day I realise there is more I don't know.
What is Cortisol resistance and how do I check it - and know it?

Mind blowing.
Click to expand...
cortisol resistance ( as I understand it) is adrenal stress-basically if you are stressed and pumping out too much cortisol (the fight or flight hormone) it then elevates your blood glucose. The only way ( I think) that you can check cortisol levels is via a blood test. Sustained adrenal stress might show itself in disturbed sleep, raised blood pressure, feeling 'wired' and unable to relax etc It's probably a contributory factor to some people developing diabetes.
 
Sam50 said:
cortisol resistance ( as I understand it) is adrenal stress-basically if you are stressed and pumping out too much cortisol (the fight or flight hormone) it then elevates your blood glucose. The only way ( I think) that you can check cortisol levels is via a blood test. Sustained adrenal stress might show itself in disturbed sleep, raised blood pressure, feeling 'wired' and unable to relax etc It's probably a contributory factor to some people developing diabetes.
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@Sam50 a 24 urine collection or blood test can check levels.
 
ickihun said:
Personally I'd know if my diabetes has reversed because I'd stop adding weight without metformin tablets.
Now this occured after 7-8mths of 600cals when I was 15yrs old on firmaloss milkshakes from weilder (bodybuilding product).
To be honest I added visible weight after 1-2 yrs from stopping but not long after that my weight increased with eating real food. I was not encouraged to return onto milkshakes and no other diet worked. (Cabbage soup diet etc..)
It's all about weight for me.

To be honest I'd continue with metformin, for life. Even if I hit reversal because I need all the help I can get to stay that way.
This fight isn't one I want to do regularly. I'm hoping maintanence is easier?
Click to expand...
I am glad that you could reverse your diabetes which is a great encouragement for others. However, I do not think continuing on drugs for life is a good idea. Metformin (http://www.diabetes.co.uk/insulin/diabetes-and-metformin.html) just helps regulating/controlling the blood sugar levels which is just a symptom of diabetes but not the diabetes itself. Even if your sugars are under control, your diabetes may not be. If you ask me, I do not think we need any drug to help control sugar levels unless they are extremely out of control. With A1C score of 8.9%, I am just doing intermittent fasting and eating 1-2 low carb meals a day with 1-2 hours of exercise and my sugar levels are way under control. However, please check with your doctor before taking any decision as you seems to be on medication. Drugs should give further complications. We need to kill the diabetes but not its symptoms such as sugar levels. Check this video out, if you haven't already (
). Though, I am not a medical expert, based on my quick research, I am beginning to think that Cortisol resistance is the root cause of any kind of metabolic issue but I am not sure if we have any medical procedures to treat that. Do your own research and hope this helps.
 
bandas said:
I am glad that you could reverse your diabetes which is a great encouragement for others. However, I do not think continuing on drugs for life is a good idea. Metformin (http://www.diabetes.co.uk/insulin/diabetes-and-metformin.html) just helps regulating/controlling the blood sugar levels which is just a symptom of diabetes but not the diabetes itself. Even if your sugars are under control, your diabetes may not be. If you ask me, I do not think we need any drug to help control sugar levels unless they are extremely out of control. With A1C score of 8.9%, I am just doing intermittent fasting and eating 1-2 low carb meals a day with 1-2 hours of exercise and my sugar levels are way under control. However, please check with your doctor before taking any decision as you seems to be on medication. Drugs should give further complications. We need to kill the diabetes but not its symptoms such as sugar levels. Check this video out, if you haven't already (
). Though, I am not a medical expert, based on my quick research, I am beginning to think that Cortisol resistance is the root cause of any kind of metabolic issue but I am not sure if we have any medical procedures to treat that. Do your own research and hope this helps.
Click to expand...
Unfortunately even dr fung doesn't really know why metformin works on IR. I have other IR conditions, pcos for one, too.
I will be continuing with metformin for IR relief.
 
bandas said:
Hi Baker - Thanks for your inputs and technically, it should be a YES, if your pre and post meal readings are normal. But what is frustrating is that medical science seems to having no answer for this. I know the "REVERSAL" is a pretty complex stuff and here is how it should be in my knowledge and correct me if I am wrong:

Diabetes Reversal Protocol 1.0

DRP#1: Know and understand the symptoms of insulin and cortisol resistance first.
DRP#2. Check the insulin resistance, cortisol resistance & hba1c levels
DRP#3: If the insulin resistance and/or cortisol resistance and/or hba1c tests are positive
DRP#3.1: Follow the treatment - perhaps, the diet, intermittent fasting, exercise and medication (if needed) for a few days or weeks depending on the progress of your waist loss
DRP#3.2. Repeat steps DRP#2 through DRP#3.
DRP#4: If the insulin resistance and cortisol resistance and hba1c tests are negative, do nothing.

Please note that the above protocol is as per my knowledge and research only and not scientifically proven or approved. Please consult your doctor before following any and/or all of the above steps in the protocol. It looks like there is a real and an urgent need to find some concrete answers for diabetes. Therefore, this is just based out of my personal research and not for implementation purposes.

Thanks.
Click to expand...
Wait, where did this version 1 come from? As per remission of diabetes, a scientific committee defined as normal fasting glucose levels and hba1c for at least one year without drugs.
 
dm2-one said:
Wait, where did this version 1 come from? As per remission of diabetes, a scientific committee defined as normal fasting glucose levels and hba1c for at least one year without drugs.
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I am actually working on the "REVERSAL but not the REMISSION" stuff. What you said might work for the remission part.

A1C levels are just the symptoms of diabetes. T2 is, or should be, all about the insulin resistance. If the A1Cs are normal, does that mean we are out of insulin resistance and other hormonal imbalances? In other words, if you are out of insulin resistance, you need not worry about A1Cs for 1 year but a half of that, perhaps. This is the key question we need to find an answer for.

This is why I am trying to come out with a protocol to "REVERSING but not REMISSION OF T2". I am doing some more research and the protocol should be tweaked a bit.
 
bandas said:
1. A couple of weeks ago, I was diagnosed with type 2 diabetes.
2. A1C was 8.9 %.
3. Changed diet and started exercising.
4. After 2 weeks (as of yesterday), a1c is 8.4 %.
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No one seems to have commented that HbA1C provides an average BG over about 3 months.
I don't understand the meaning or value of another HbA1C after 2 weeks - most of what you are measuring is the same as previously.
 
helensaramay said:
No one seems to have commented that HbA1C provides an average BG over about 3 months.
I don't understand the meaning or value of another HbA1C after 2 weeks - most of what you are measuring is the same as previously.
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A good question! It is done to corroborate your first reading in case of a mistake in the blood taking and assay process. Derek
 
lindisfel said:
A good question! It is done to corroborate your first reading in case of a mistake in the blood taking and assay process. Derek
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Thanks @lindisfel.
So, referring this back to the original post, the second Hb1AC measurement should not be taken as an indication of any improvement in BG control?
 
Hi Helen, It could be if you completely changed your diet and had no carbs for two weeks, the new blood cells will have been affected by less glucose! But it will take some weeks to replace all your blood cells that record high blood glucose. Normally we humans do not mend our ways that fast! :). If you have an improvement and had the same lifestyle..re exercise and food plus normal sleep it should be the same, but the diagnosis does stress some out and put their cortisol up which is bad for T2D.
All things being equal the difference will be 'noise' in the process and I would believe the average, however you have made a dramatic change in your lifestyle and I am no expert but I reckon you may have made a genuine change. Best wishes with your strategy. Regards. Derek
 
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Rachox said:
I agree, I had two HbA1c tests a week apart to confirm diagnosis. Mine went up from 67 to 70!
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I also had 2 HbA1c tests, 12 days apart. First one was 52, second one was 53. But as I always say, the labs round the figures up or down, so my 52 could have been 51.5 or 52.4. Similarly the 53. In order words, virtually identical and only 0.1mmol/l difference, when converted.
 
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