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How high is the High Fat of LCHF??

Could you give a source for that chart @Art Of Flowers ?

I have a similar chart, but it dates from over 10 years ago (and used WHO stats), and I am interested to find a more recent source of the info.

Here it is :) The source website is shown at the bottom of the image.
upload_2017-6-18_9-23-15.png

and this image gives a way to convert the figs to UK units:

upload_2017-6-18_9-23-39.png
 
douglas99 said:
And to be honest, the dumbest thing I ever read is don't count calories, just eat fat until your satiated,
After thirteen bags of pork scratchings, a cheese board isn't the best thing to move onto.
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The dumbest thing? Really?

"As long as you eat the cheese, and not the board," says Mr Svea, the funny man. ("I meant not the crackers," he adds.)

As we do live in such interesting times when it comes to recommended ways of eating, the best thing anyone can do is weigh up different WOEs evidence and check it out on themselves. Things are a lot more pressing for we folk in here though, isn't it? As our lives/life expectancy depends on it, and we are checking it out for ourselves in terms of our own health with a greater sense of urgency, due to that nasty dying-of-a-stroke-too-soon threat we have hanging over us if we don't get it right.

I spent some of last night reading/following up on the McDougall diet, which I originally thought was a joke or a big attempt at irony - in particular where diabetics save ourselves by eating sugar and rice. (But I don't think I would even call that dumb.) McDougall is very sincere. And his premise is insulin sensitivity is raised to normal by bombarding (treating?) the cells with a ton of starch and sugar. Would I do a month long experiment treating myself with rice and sugar? Heck no. I don't buy his premise, even as sincere as he is. I obviously do trust the premise behind LCHF, with my life, I guess. And use my blood lipid panel as evidence. Which is what Paleo and LCHF and keto eaters stand by. (And the diabetic ones - our HBA1c from ways of eating.)

I eat a bit of lamb/beef/pork fat fried-up in coconut oil fairly often (rather than scratchings) - but you just can't eat a whole lot of it! Even if it is nature's candy, from my pov. No need to weigh it and count the calories. I'm walking evidence that fat doesn't make you fat, which is what the LCHF theory suggests. Eating real candy and drinking cans of schweppes on the other hand - did make me fat. And, well, here I am a diabetic, darn it. And the fried animal fat doesn't raise my blood glucose one bit, and gee it tastes yummy as. Nothing dumb in that.
 
ghost_whistler said:
I tried googling to find what she says about calorie restriction, unfortunately it's all behind her paywall. I would be interested to know what her conclusions are.

However, if calories don't matter, why measure your macro intake in terms of percentages?
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http://www.diabetes.co.uk/forum/threads/phcuk-conference-videos.103686/#post-1192991

Macros are important, mostly in order to control BG if you are diabetic but also if you want to be in ketosis. It's not the calories per se that are important, it's the relations between them.
 
Brunneria said:
Could you give a source for that chart @Art Of Flowers ?

I have a similar chart, but it dates from over 10 years ago (and used WHO stats), and I am interested to find a more recent source of the info.

Here it is :) The source website is shown at the bottom of the image.
View attachment 23162

and this image gives a way to convert the figs to UK units:

View attachment 23163
Click to expand...

Yes, again, too low is bad, too high is bad.
But your graph is quite interesting, too low, and it's a lot of third world causes of death, such as malnutrition, so it would be expected cholesterol would be low.
Too high, as in our first world, and it's CVD that comes to the forefront.
So, maybe it's not really the low cholesterol that kills you.
Maybe it's merely an indicator of things such as malnutrition if it's low when you die.
And to be fair, starvation does seem to drive cholesterol down,

It's also interesting how not only CVD, but noncommunicable disease tracks the bathtub curve.
So, in the first world, who's putting money on having high cholesterol simply being a marker of events to come, or the cause?
I'm 100% putting my money on the cause, and keeping my numbers in the sweet spot.
If you gambling it's a marker of something else, and keeping it high won't matter, as your time will be up regardless, enjoy yourself as much as possible.
 
For those who are interested in an LCHF way of eating in achieving general health and living better with blood glucose dysregulation, and are pondering the whole cholesterol issue, these are my own 'top 6' recommended readings and viewings on the subject:

Dr Malcolm Kendrick, The Great Cholesterol Con

Statin nation - doco

Uffe Ravnskov, The Cholesterol Myths (free book online)

My Big Fat Diet, film , 2008 by Dr Jay Wortman (a doctor who got diabetes and achieves normal BG with an LCHF diet)

And those lucky enough to read that gorgeous Swedish language:

('The mother of the LCHF diet') Annika Dahlqvist, Doktor Dahlqvists guide till bättre hälsa och viktkontroll

(and don't we love that diet doctor Dr Andreas Eenfeldt!) Matrevolutionen: ät dig frisk med riktig mat

I am really lucky to have lived in Sweden, which took Dr Dahlqvist to task and put her career on the line for her giving LCHF advice in her practice. The Swedish health authorities took her to court, basically, and she won. With an overwhelming body of evidence that the heart diet hypothesis was wrong, and LCHF was - right! It was because of her, in essence, that we have the wonderful (Swedish) diet doctor online spreading the word she began as medical practice.

In Stockholm, I have mentioned before in this forum, there were two LCHF food boutiques, and many cafes (or enough to see it as a delightful surprise when going out to lunch) offered an LCHF option in the daily lunch menu. It was a privilege to have lived somewhere where this controversy was taken to task and resolved, to a large degree, and becomes part of everyday life. It makes living elsewhere and having discussions like this a little hard though! But I think - very important to spread the word.

In Sweden, for instance, I was able to discuss with a gallbladder surgeon the theories of fat digestion that LCHF espouses, and we decided together that it would be better for me to keep my gallbladder (the gallstone in there from my High carb low fat eating days, as is my diabetes, of course). How to keep your gallbladder with a gallstone within? You know what I am going to answer - right?

Yep - keep eating high fat, or enough fat to keep the gallbladder fully functioning (and that darned gallstone at bay!)

The exact opposite of the conventional advice. The complete opposite of common medical practice elsewhere in the world.

It really does help when such scientific nutritional controversies have been largely resolved based on scientific evidence. I can't wait for nutrition from the top down to change and to truly help diabetics. (And I guess I don't mean the sugar and rice diet! I must confess.)



 
ghost_whistler said:
I like Zoe, she seems like a straight talker. I would love to ask her some questions, if I can afford it I might try subscribing for a month or so to ask.
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Did you recent specialist visit result in any diagnosis @ghost_whistler ?

It's easier for people to make appropriate suggestions if they know what you do - or don't - have.
 
ghost_whistler said:
no
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That's not very helpful of her/him. Was nothing at all said that was even a tiny bit helpful or at least gave you an idea of what to try? Did you ask for any dietary advice or did they say that you didn't need to follow any special regime?

What were your extended OGTT results? Did you have to fast?

Let me tag @Brunneria and @Lamont D so they can interpret the diagnosis you were given seeing as it sounds like you got little help from the specialist you saw.
 
azure said:
That's not very helpful of her/him. Was nothing at all said that was even a tiny bit helpful or at least gave you an idea of what to try? Did you ask for any dietary advice or did they say that you didn't need to follow any special regime?

What were your extended OGTT results? Did you have to fast?

Let me tag @Brunneria and @Lamont D so they can interpret the diagnosis you were given seeing as it sounds like you got little help from the specialist you saw.
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I didn't take any test, he looked at my history and said that's what it is.
 
ghost_whistler said:
I didn't take any test, he looked at my history and said that's what it is.
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Did he give any reason that he didn't do a test? Surely he didn't just send you on your way so abruptly. It sounds like you were in there 5 minutes. After waiting so long to see him, that must be disappointing.

I can't believe a consultant wouldn't offer any advice.

@Lamont D has mentioned various different forms of RH, I think. Perhaps he can shed light on this and what the consultant meant?
 
No test was discussed or mentioned.

I said that I hadn't had hypos since adjusting my diet. Not really sure what else could be done anyway, since there's no cure for hypo - certainly under current dietary guildelines.
 
ghost_whistler said:
No test was discussed or mentioned.

I said that I hadn't had hypos since adjusting my diet. Not really sure what else could be done anyway, since there's no cure for hypo - certainly under current dietary guildelines.
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Did he mention the insulin resistance you thought you might have (and others suggested too)?

Sometimes there can be a link to RH.

I think I was one of the people who,suggested IR as you reported a high blood sugar and have mentioned difficulty in losing weight.

It's strange he didn't even attempt to make dietary suggestions. if you feel you didn't get much feedback, then you could ask your GP for a copy of the letter he'll send to them.
 
ghost_whistler said:
No test was discussed or mentioned.

I said that I hadn't had hypos since adjusting my diet. Not really sure what else could be done anyway, since there's no cure for hypo - certainly under current dietary guildelines.
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In what way have you adjusted your diet and what does your diet look like now? Is there going to be any follow up? I would be disappointed if I had had such a brief and unhelpful consultation -please have a hug if you feel its appropriate.
 
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