How to get the right fat content in a ketogenic diet

jcbman

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263
Type of diabetes
I reversed my Type 2
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Variety .. who do you bother commenting on things you obviously have no interest in understanding?


Mate, if you like butter, why spoil it?

You like fat, that's good.
 

Mbaker

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4,339
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Available fast foods in Supermarkets
What fats give what results mate?
What are we looking for here?
The fats I / we do are cook in butter, coconut / avocado oil. I add half an avocado to some meals. I have a spoon of whole earth peanut butter the (4.6 g / 100 g version) to mix with cinnamon, ginger and nutmeg. I have no more than 2 scoops of full fat Greek yogurt or crème fraiche (this is now my favourite Waitrose Smooth and Tangy). I have oily fish at least 3 times a week (sometimes I add fish for surf and turf). I have 2 home made seed crackers (lots of fat in these) with peanut butter. Recently I have had for a desserts black bomber cheese on flax bread toast (unbelievably tasty). Today for example I had Bolognese with 4 slices of home made flax bread (around 66% fat) and a cut in half fibreflour roll. I eat around 700 - 800 calories of mixed nuts everyday (don't recommend this for everyone, but I burn a lot of calories for example at the time of writing I am on 3770). So I mix the above with nuts as the one constant everyday for my fats. Again my food is never obviously swimming in obvious fat but with the above I don't have to think about ratios.
 
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smc85

Active Member
Messages
40
Type of diabetes
Prediabetes
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Diet only
Hi @jcbman
Try salami, chorizo, pate, soft full fat cheese, full fat yoghurt, butter, double cream. These all have high proportions of fat to protein, which is what you will need if you are to end up with a 2:1 ratio. My latest tasty snack (as part of a main meal) is a slice of cheddar cheese with pepper Boursin on top. You only need a small amount, but it is very tasty and filling.

Ooo I didn’t even think about pate! That’s great I love it. And Boursin! Thanks :)
 

smc85

Active Member
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40
Type of diabetes
Prediabetes
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Diet only
You can make fat bombs from raw cacao butter and coconut oil. Google it. There are some lovely ones. Crunchy almond butter is my new best friend just watch the protein. MCT oil is a quick way of getting in to ketosis which I have in my bulletproof coffee. There are loads of recipes on Pinterest too. Good luck.

I will definitely check that fat bombs idea out. And I love Pinterest so can’t go wrong there!
 
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smc85

Active Member
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40
Type of diabetes
Prediabetes
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Diet only
Try adding mayonnaise to steamed cauliflower or other veges along with herbs or spices, make a salad dressing of olive oil and wine or cider vinegar with various flavourings. You can make small bottles of salad dressings and keep them in the fridge until a little before they are needed, let them warm up and give them a shake to mix.

Salad dressings is a great idea. I’ve been conditioned to not eat olive oil on my salad when doing Slimming World so I will be more than happy to introduce that again
 

smc85

Active Member
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40
Type of diabetes
Prediabetes
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Diet only
Avocado, peanut butter (not too much because of the protein content), mayonnaise, cheese, butter...

I’ll happily eat butter with a spoon though :D or a lump of cheese with butter spread on it!

I’m not sure I can bring myself to eat cheese with butter on but I’ll give it a try if all else fails!
 

smc85

Active Member
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Type of diabetes
Prediabetes
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I am assuming you are looking to reverse pre-diabetes. My advice is buy a body mass set of scales, just to ensure that if you put on weight t is muscle not fat. Take baseline measurements for fat, visceral fat and lean body mass. I would focus on lean body mass, satiety, lchf variety and enjoyment when eating.

Because carbs are low, it is likely you will be loosing weight and fixing metabolic issues, so there may be no requirement to get into too much detail (I don't know my ketones and have never tested). I don't think it is necessary to get an exact ratio or even get into ketosis, just cut the carbs (as you are doing, 10% is great) and adjust fat if you are not getting results.

Yes, you are right. I got the diagnosis last Thursday and it was a complete shock but the kick up the bum I need to make some changes. Thanks for the tip, my current scales do this but I’ve never faffed around with them. I will definitely pull out the instruction manual and work it all out though. Thanks for the advice.
 

smc85

Active Member
Messages
40
Type of diabetes
Prediabetes
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Diet only
Butter on green veg.. butter on steak. Stephen Phinney one of the main keto doctors puts melted butter over his dinner.
I sometimes put butter on cheese although I find that by keeping carbs below 20g per day keeps me in ketosis without having to worry too much about other macros. I'm afraid that there are some people commenting here who aren't that well informed on a ketogenic way of eating.

Thanks, there’s so much info out there it can actually be hard to narrow it down to what is useful and what’s isn’t
 

smc85

Active Member
Messages
40
Type of diabetes
Prediabetes
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Diet only
I’ve found that prawns need a spot of insulin to cover but fish doesn’t.

I’m prediabetic currently so insulin isn’t a concern for me but I am considering monitoring my blood glucose moving forward after advice from this forum. I’ll keep and eye on prawns just in case.
 

bulkbiker

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19,576
Type of diabetes
Type 2
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Thanks, there’s so much info out there it can actually be hard to narrow it down to what is useful and what’s isn’t
Yes thats very true especially when there are some people deliberately trying to muddy the waters....
Another great resource for keto is www.ketogenicforums.com lots of science based info and a friendly group with fewer trolls.
 
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T0sie

Member
Messages
5
I use whipped cream in my greek yoghurt, I have it on my coffee. I use mayonaise wih my salads on my tunafish etc. Besides that I eat kalamata olives and chorizo sausages.
 

PenguinMum

Expert
Messages
6,782
Type of diabetes
Type 2
Treatment type
Diet only
I am assuming you are looking to reverse pre-diabetes. My advice is buy a body mass set of scales, just to ensure that if you put on weight t is muscle not fat. Take baseline measurements for fat, visceral fat and lean body mass. I would focus on lean body mass, satiety, lchf variety and enjoyment when eating.

Because carbs are low, it is likely you will be loosing weight and fixing metabolic issues, so there may be no requirement to get into too much detail (I don't know my ketones and have never tested). I don't think it is necessary to get an exact ratio or even get into ketosis, just cut the carbs (as you are doing, 10% is great) and adjust fat if you are not getting results.
I apologise to the original poster for going off on a tangent in this fascinating thread but can you really buy scales that can give you an indication of visceral fat (subcutaneousfat same thing?) and where or what do you ask for.
 

Mbaker

Well-Known Member
Messages
4,339
Type of diabetes
Type 2 (in remission!)
Treatment type
Diet only
Dislikes
Available fast foods in Supermarkets
Yes, I use:

https://tanita.eu/products/body-composition-monitors/bc-545n
(but this cheaper version reads identically in use https://tanita.eu/products/body-composition-monitors/bc-730 (cheaper at Argos) - this is going to a family member)

I also have a Fitbit Aria convenient for use if you have a Fitbit tracker, but limited features (Aria 2 is now out)
Also a Withings (Now Nokia) Body Cardio
I have an Omron BF511- this is going to a family member
I have so many just to initial ignorance as what to measure. Now I would just get either the cheaper Tanita or the Omron.
The big areas to check for other than obvious weight are:

Visceral Fat
Fat mass
BMI
Water mass
Bone mass
Muscle mass

Some other functions are Basal Metabolic Rate, Metabolic Age (on the Tanita Scales).
 

ianpspurs

Oracle
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16,420
Type of diabetes
Type 2 (in remission!)
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OK guys sorry if this derails the thread as I have enjoyed reading it and loved @Mbaker's link to scales . I wandered onto keto forum suggested by @bulkbiker and watched video by Dr Berg and got puzzled by an assertion he made. He stated to stay at or below 20 gms carb not counting veggies. Is this what others do as if so it would really help my macros and seems to fit with the thread title without me going to fat bombs etc.
Sorry if this is in the TL DR category or seems stupid.
 

bulkbiker

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19,576
Type of diabetes
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OK guys sorry if this derails the thread as I have enjoyed reading it and loved @Mbaker's link to scales . I wandered onto keto forum suggested by @bulkbiker and watched video by Dr Berg and got puzzled by an assertion he made. He stated to stay at or below 20 gms carb not counting veggies. Is this what others do as if so it would really help my macros and seems to fit with the thread title without me going to fat bombs etc.
Sorry if this is in the TL DR category or seems stupid.
I would still count veggies in my carbs but what fat macro do you have.. its normally fat to satiety rather than any specific amount. Dr Berg is a bit of an outlier on some things..
Easy ketosis is carbs 20g or less daily then eat fat and protein to satiety. You can tweak afterwards.. getting going is the main thing..
 
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ianpspurs

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Hi @bulkbiker thanks for replying. Initially, I used an online calculator and came up with this based on height, weight and fitbit execise log : 2200Cals; 30 gms Carbs 5%; 17% protein 108 gms; 78% fat 214 gms; That is about the daily ratio/average since the turn of the year.
Thursday, Friday and Saturday were very odd days. The first 2 were OMAD days with less than 1200 cals but spot on the ratio. Saturday was 3000+ cals 3% carbs but spot on the other macros. Since then bg levels have adhered to no known pattern of last 3 years so I am trying to pinpoint potential reasons.
 
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bulkbiker

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Hi @bulkbiker thanks for replying. Initially, I used an online calculator and came up with this based on height, weight and fitbit execise log : 2200Cals; 30 gms Carbs 5%; 17% protein 108 gms; 78% fat 214 gms; That is about the daily ratio/average since the turn of the year.
Thursday, Friday and Saturday were very odd days. The first 2 were OMAD days with less than 1200 cals but spot on the ratio. Saturday was 3000+ cals 3% carbs but spot on the other macros. Since then bg levels have adhered to no known pattern of last 3 years so I am trying to pinpoint potential reasons.
bloods up down or all over the place? and by how much?
 

ianpspurs

Oracle
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16,420
Type of diabetes
Type 2 (in remission!)
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bloods up down or all over the place? and by how much?
fbg and 2 hr afterwards .8 and 1 respectively but evening meal and bedtime down 1. May have/be getting a cold so that might be the issue but has followed those 3 days so puzzled as to what has triggered this - bg normally very stable could almost always paste in 3 year average and get the same result.