Hunger Pangs

[ghost_whistler]

Initially i was doing ok, could last between meals a lot better than when on carbs.

But now, particularly today, but over the last couple of days. I seem not to be sated after eating. Today's been the worst. I felt rough earlier. My BS levels seemed ok, though i'd rather stay away from the meter as it drives me crazy. I don't know whether it's dehybdration, though i've been drinking ridiculous amounts, or lack of fats. I do struggle to add fats and so my calorie deficit could be a problem. I've been trying to find out if this is a common issue with keto/lchf but have drawn a blank.

 

[chalup]

Cheese is a very good way of adding fats as are nuts and avocado. I like to use celery to dip out softened boursin cheese. It is very filling. Another very filling low carb meal is fathead pizza. The crust can be made square and cut into smaller squares to be used as sandwich bread cold. There are recipes all over the net.

 

[ExD]

My husband says he never ever feels full after a meal, and that its been the same during his whole life. I think he was born without an 'off' button to his appetite!
I usually feel hungry about 1hr before a meal, but I've always put that down to my being the chief cook in the family so I am anticipating what's to come.
I don't think either of us is in keto.

 

[daisyduck]

Initially i was doing ok, could last between meals a lot better than when on carbs.

But now, particularly today, but over the last couple of days. I seem not to be sated after eating. Today's been the worst. I felt rough earlier. My BS levels seemed ok, though i'd rather stay away from the meter as it drives me crazy. I don't know whether it's dehybdration, though i've been drinking ridiculous amounts, or lack of fats. I do struggle to add fats and so my calorie deficit could be a problem. I've been trying to find out if this is a common issue with keto/lchf but have drawn a blank.

I have very different days too.. Sometimes I'm not hungry at all.. I usually take advantage of that and don't bother to eat.. Another day I'll get the munchies and want to eat loads.. I'll try a bulletproof coffee first.. I add double cream and coconut oil to mine.. if that doesn't work then I'll just eat until I feel full..I do keep it low carb though and have nuts , cheese, pork scratchings meat slices etc. It must even itself out as I can maintain my weight fairly easily now.

 

[ghost_whistler]

I thought low carb high fat sorted hunger cravings like that out?

Had a pretty rough night and snacked on some cheese.
Some people that I've asked elsewhere think this is all part of the adaptation process, but that seems like a trivial response to me. I don't know

 

[Hedonista]

I was advised to increase fats when I was getting hungry and that definitely worked for me - if I was pushed for time I'd just swig a mouthful of double cream and it would help! I also eat until I'm full - it works for me, I don't eat between meals then and I also feel happy and relaxed instead of hungry and edgy. I've lost 4 stone in about 2 years, blood sugar is in normal range and cholesterol is fine.

 

[LittleGreyCat]

I found that if I cut back too far on total calories I had constant hunger pangs and was completely knackered.

If you feel really hungry then eat something; as you say, the trick is to make sure it is high in protein and fat.

 

[daisyduck]

We are all different. Fat does seem to be the key to keeping hunger at bay for most of us though. It is a very individual journey and we have to work out what works for us.
I think modern society is far too focused on 3 meals a day.. I try to eat only when I feel hungry and then just eat until I feel full, which, on LCHF can be a surprisingly small amount.

 

[ghost_whistler]

We are all different. Fat does seem to be the key to keeping hunger at bay for most of us though. It is a very individual journey and we have to work out what works for us.
I think modern society is far too focused on 3 meals a day.. I try to eat only when I feel hungry and then just eat until I feel full, which, on LCHF can be a surprisingly small amount.

I agree with the modern society comment. It is difficult to break off. I'd like to think breakfast could keep me going till early afternoon. Then eat, then go until dinnertime. I guess that's what we're used to.

Some people claim this is a normal part of the process, but that doesn't seem congruent with experiences i've heard of. It almost seems, though i'm sure not deliberately, dismissive.

I know taht if i were to talk to the gp about this i'd be told to get some carbs and stop starving myself. I don't really want to have that conversation. This diet seems to work so I just don't get what's happening here.

I can try to up the fat intake, but tbh I'm struggling with that. I just cooked a beefburger from the butchers in 20g butter - something i never normally do, even now after 4 weeks of LCHF! (Perhaps that's the problem). It was very nice, but I didn't get all 20g butter in the food of course, so hopefully that doesn't impact my fat intake too much.

 

[ghost_whistler]

I found that if I cut back too far on total calories I had constant hunger pangs and was completely knackered.

If you feel really hungry then eat something; as you say, the trick is to make sure it is high in protein and fat.

how far would you say is too far.

tracking all this is not easy. we don't eat in exact increments and online trackers can be wildly inaccurate with their user-defined info.

 

[daisyduck]

how far would you say is too far.

tracking all this is not easy. we don't eat in exact increments and online trackers can be wildly inaccurate with their user-defined info.

Depends what your goal is. Are you trying to lose weight or lower your BG ?
I'm not being dismissive at all when I say you need to find your own balance.. we can all vary wildly in that.
Because of my metabolic syndrome my calorie requirements are very low and if I eat over 1500 I will gain weight, whatever exercise I do.. but that is me and not you.

Re your burger.. even adding butter you will have cooked a lot of fat out of it.. maybe put a slice of cheese on top to melt when it's cooked ? I love blue cheese on a burger

 

[Kristin251]

I eat avocado with all my meals. The fat and fiber keep me very satisfied. I spent many years low carb and hungry. Fat is my ticket. I too don't need many calories or I will surely gain weight. I also eat very small meals. Keeping my ba very steady keeps the munchies away. I dontend to have a few fat snacks between meals but I think it's more because I like to than actually hunger. These are usually a big spoonful of avocado, a few nuts or veggies dipped in mayo. Nothing with carbs or protein to speak of. I eat protein at my 3 small meals.

It took me a long time to find my 'right' fuel and that is avocado

 

[LittleGreyCat]

how far would you say is too far.

tracking all this is not easy. we don't eat in exact increments and online trackers can be wildly inaccurate with their user-defined info.

I was down to one small meal a day.

Well, coffee in the morning with a big lump of butter and loads of double cream.

Lidl protein roll mid afternoon (around 15:00) with a protein/fat filling (often cheese and ham) and lashings of butter. Tomato and cucumber on the side to make it look healthy.

Drinking plenty of fizzy water with a dash of lemon juice.

This was probably no more than 12-1500 kcals per day.

Never had better BG results, but it was making my life miserable.

 

[BrianTheElder]

Initially i was doing ok, could last between meals a lot better than when on carbs.

But now, particularly today, but over the last couple of days. I seem not to be sated after eating. Today's been the worst. I felt rough earlier. My BS levels seemed ok, though i'd rather stay away from the meter as it drives me crazy. I don't know whether it's dehybdration, though i've been drinking ridiculous amounts, or lack of fats. I do struggle to add fats and so my calorie deficit could be a problem. I've been trying to find out if this is a common issue with keto/lchf but have drawn a blank.

To me, the important things are

1. Maintain your calorie levels. Calorie controlled diets don't work because your body adjusts your metabolism to suit the incoming calories. So if you don't get enough calories, you will become lethargic but you won't lose weight as you hoped.
2. Maintain your protein levels. You need proteins for body renewal and repair. But too much and the liver produces glucose from the excess.
3. Reduce your carbohydrates. Carbs do not fill you as they supply energy only. The more carbs you eat, the more insulin you will produce or the more you will need to supply, so you will actually become hungrier.
4. Eat fat. Sorry but most of us have been conditioned by decades of "fat is bad", "eat low fat", so think fat is bad, greasy, horrible and clogs your arteries. All that is wrong. You must learn to overcome these negative thoughts and realise that fat is good for you, healthy, tasty and nutritious. It also fills you so you must eat enough to keep hunger at bay.

 

[ghost_whistler]

Depends what your goal is. Are you trying to lose weight or lower your BG ?
I'm not being dismissive at all when I say you need to find your own balance.. we can all vary wildly in that.
Because of my metabolic syndrome my calorie requirements are very low and if I eat over 1500 I will gain weight, whatever exercise I do.. but that is me and not you.

Re your burger.. even adding butter you will have cooked a lot of fat out of it.. maybe put a slice of cheese on top to melt when it's cooked ? I love blue cheese on a burger

My goal is to sort out BS, but i would like the weight loss as well. I think that is happening, but this hunger thing is insane. I'm getting pangs now, not 2 hours after eating a 160g beef burger, fried in butter, with spinach, cucumber and a mushroom. What am I doing wrong there? I thought i'd have a heart attack just looking at the pan! According to MFP i'm at 1100kcals. I need another 5-600 for the day to hit the macro. Frying more food in butter for dinner will help, but even this doesn't seem to sort my gut out. Why is this happening now?

How do you cook fat out of food? How then do you cook up a nice fatty meal like that without doing this?

 

[daisyduck]

It sounds like you are trying to eat too few calories for you. I would forget about them temporarily and just concentrate on eating enough to feel satisfied.
What I mean about cooking fat out of food. If you grilled your burger without fat you would end up with a load of fat in the grill pan. Same if you fry it without fat, it will create it's own .. I always fry my streaky bacon like that as I like it crispy.
Have you tried the Lidl protein rolls.. only 9.8 carbs each and very filling.. half is enough for me.

 

[ghost_whistler]

I thought i was eating till full (isn't it meant to be sated? or is there even a difference). It's hard to tell, tobh!

I've just had a couple of tablespoons of cream and I think I feel better. Perhaps it is a fat thing. It's weird, it's hard to tell you're not getting enough fat when crunching the numbers.

However cream does have carbs and lactose so I need to be careful how much of that I eat.

I'm going to fry some cooked chicken meat in coconut oil for dinner. That sounds promising. I hope.

 

[Kristin251]

Are you over eating protein? Protein in larger quantities makes me hungry. Protein requires almost as much insulin as carbs. You just get a slower rise. It has been said we cannot process more than 3 ounces at a time and should be spread throughout the day rather than more at less meals. We really don't need loads of protein either and excess turns to bs.

.8g per kg of LEAN body mass is enough

I know how you're feeling I think. I used to feel like my bs and insulin were bickering and felt very unbalanced all the time even was bs was in target range. Then I found the magic in avocado. It seems to keep everything low and slow.

It sounds as if you're not getting the right fuel for you. Play around with portion sizes. Maybe you need less protein and more vlc veggies to feel balanced. I personally don't worry about calories. Most people would say I don't eat enough calories but if I eat more and gain weight or fat then I'm obviously not using those calories but rather storing them. Also to add, if you have fat on your body you don't need loads in your diet or your body will burn those first. If you want fat off your body then eat less fat so your body burns your fat stores and makes ketones out of those.

Oddly too much food, too large of a meal or too many calories in my meals makes me hungry. That's why I eat 3 very small meals and a few fat snacks. My engine likes to be 'topped off ' rather than emptied and refilled.

 

[ghost_whistler]

Are you over eating protein? Protein in larger quantities makes me hungry. Protein requires almost as much insulin as carbs. You just get a slower rise. It has been said we cannot process more than 3 ounces at a time and should be spread throughout the day rather than more at less meals. We really don't need loads of protein either and excess turns to bs.

.8g per kg of LEAN body mass is enough

I know how you're feeling I think. I used to feel like my bs and insulin were bickering and felt very unbalanced all the time even was bs was in target range. Then I found the magic in avocado. It seems to keep everything low and slow.

It sounds as if you're not getting the right fuel for you. Play around with portion sizes. Maybe you need less protein and more vlc veggies to feel balanced. I personally don't worry about calories. Most people would say I don't eat enough calories but if I eat more and gain weight or fat then I'm obviously not using those calories but rather storing them. Also to add, if you have fat on your body you don't need loads in your diet or your body will burn those first. If you want fat off your body then eat less fat so your body burns your fat stores and makes ketones out of those.

Oddly too much food, too large of a meal or too many calories in my meals makes me hungry. That's why I eat 3 very small meals and a few fat snacks. My engine likes to be 'topped off ' rather than emptied and refilled.

the macro i have is 101g. I'm eating so as to get 30g per meal. If this is the case then it goes against what i've read so far.

To be honest though, there are a number of macro calculators and they all seem to come up with a different value. I've seen results that are even higher than my 101g a day (though usually it's nearer 110).

 

[Kristin251]

Yes there sure are many different calculators. Seeing as excess turns to bs as well as opens the mTor pathway I stay on the low end

I think most people around here, or at least a lot use the .8/kg. New studies are finding that to be enough for most people.

I need 80% fat, 15% protein and 5% carbs at all meals to feel balanced. However I am not gobbling fat.
1/3 avocado per meal, 2 oz ish protein and a handful of random veggies. Sometimes mayo in egg, chicken or turkey salad. Sometimes a drizzle of olive oil on fish. A few nuts or pumpkin seeds for snacks.

A large handful of salad greens, a drizzle of olive oil, a few chunks of avocado and some chicken, egg tuna etc meets these macros. Not hard to do and a pretty darn healthy meal. I keep saturated fats low and very little dairy if any as that causes me to gain.

Lchf is not high protein. The idea is to replace the carbs with fats. But since fat has more than twice the calories it doesn't need to be eaten in excess.

That being said I have no idea what you're eating other than a burger. Fat also impedes insulin so too much fat can mess with excess protein.