Hunger Pangs

[BrianTheElder]

That doesn't seem a lot to me, and the balance doesn't seem right.
It looks like a bit too much protein and not nearly enough fat.
I'll try and table it up but this may not look right.

The target for nutritional ketosis is 80% fat, 15% protein and 5% carbs

Ah! Here I made a fairly long diversion because 80/15/5 is quoted all over the place but I am having trouble confirming if it is 80/15/5 by weight or 80/15/5 by calorific value. I think it must be based on weight because all the food labelling is in percentages of a 100 gram portion. Please correct me if I am wrong.

In reverse order by weight assuming you are eating 20 grams of carbs per day:

5% carbs is 20 grams so 100% is (20 * 20) 400 grams food (or at least macro nutrients) in total. This figure used to derive the others.

15% (of 400 grams) protein is 60 grams of protein so close to your figure

80% (of 400 grams) fat is 320 grams of fat so nowhere near your figure of 150 grams.

So your fat is way, way low on the 80/15/5 scale by weight.

I read that you are drinking cream to up your fats and kill the hunger. That sounds good. Eating cheese (if you like it) will also up your fats. Add cheese to meat dishes; cheese & bacon burger rocks.

Hard core (which I tried once and may again) is drinking a good quality extra virgin olive oil. 100% of the right kind of fat. Some people love it, I found I could tolerate it but haven't found it "moreish".

Hi
I eat 150g fat, 60g protein, 20g carbs per day.
In calorie terms, this is 1350 calories, 240 calories, 80 calories, total 1670 calories.
In % calorie terms, thus 81%, 14%, 5%.
As it happens, I also take fibre into account, so my %s are more like 80% fat, 15% protein, 5% carbs. I think you will find that's pretty standard for a ketogenic diet.
I have no problem eating the 80% fat, my problem is always keeping below 15% protein (60g). I just keep well below the carbs.

 

[Brunneria]

I have no problem eating the 80% fat, my problem is always keeping below 15% protein (60g). I just keep well below the carbs.

Absolutely. I have had to reduce my protein 3 times, and if I take my eye off the ball, it creeps back up again.
Intermittent fasting has helped tremendously to keep my protein down to where I want it.

 

[Kristin251]

Absolutely. I have had to reduce my protein 3 times, and if I take my eye off the ball, it creeps back up again.
Intermittent fasting has helped tremendously to keep my protein down to where I want it.

That's exactly why I still weigh my protein. I'd have no problems eating slabs!! Bulk cooking and freezing in my personal size portions really helps me with that.

Yes, 80/15/5 in CALORIES, not weight. If you count my avocado as 15 carbs but consider ( I don't deduct all fiber, I just consider it ) it also has 12 g fiber. Then I'm probably 20 carbs but far less net carbs.

 

[ghost_whistler]

Double cream? It's just one example, but I'm thinking maybe only one or two tablespoons could be enough to give your system something to ponder over, rather than be hungry.

https://www.tesco.com/groceries/product/details/?id=262479533

If that worked, but you really wanted to give up the snacks, then cutting back from 3x daily, to 2, then 1 could be tried. Alternatively, perhaps adding that to a mealtime could work.

The beauty of something like cream is it is readily sourced, not expensive (there are a fair few tablespoons in a 600ml carton for £1.60 in Tesco. At 0.5gr carb and 0.5gr protein, per 60ml, it's a very modest burden to either carb or protein elements of your diet.

I've never been a snacker, but I know when I made MrB some grown up, Nigella Margarita ice cream, I was astonished the texture the combined whipping cream and lime juice made. It was almost mousse like. So, you could likely create a delicious dessert combining the lime juice, whipped cream, sweetener, with or without alcohol, although the alcohol stops grainy ice crystals forming.

Oh i have some cream. I just don't want to take it too much because it has carbs.

 

[Mr_Pot]

What is this thread about? Apparently the OP is not diabetic and for some reason is trying to follow a keto diet but feeling hungry. So give up the keto diet, eat more food, job done.

 

[ghost_whistler]

You may be overestimating: https://www.fatsecret.com/calories-nutrition/usda/butter?portionid=56545&portionamount=100.000

there are 1150 cals in 150g butter, 280 cals in your protein, 80 in your carbs. = 1500 cals a day total. And, as a man, I am sure you need more calories than that a day. I am a small, sedentary woman and I need more calories than that on a weight reducing diet.

even at your estimate of 150g of fat being 1350 calories, your total is only 1700.

I wasn't aware that is too low. The keto macro calculators i've looked at tell me that's what i should be aiming for (a little less actually).

150g fat isn't just butter, it's all the fat i've eaten, including animal fat and other products like nuts and cheese. It's the total of the fats i've eaten.

 

[ghost_whistler]

That's exactly why I still weigh my protein. I'd have no problems eating slabs!! Bulk cooking and freezing in my personal size portions really helps me with that.

Yes, 80/15/5 in CALORIES, not weight. If you count my avocado as 15 carbs but consider ( I don't deduct all fiber, I just consider it ) it also has 12 g fiber. Then I'm probably 20 carbs but far less net carbs.

Avocado's aren't 15 carbs at all.

https://www.tesco.com/groceries/product/details/?id=256074560

https://www.avocadocentral.com/nutrition/avocado-nutrition-health-facts-label

(although both are different, which isn't helpful)

 

[AndBreathe]

Oh i have some cream. I just don't want to take it too much because it has carbs.

If you looked at the link I sent, it says 0.5gr protein per 60ml of cream. That's hardly anything, in my view.

Bottom life, ghost_whistler is you say you're keen to follow this through, but are finding it intolerable, but you seem unwilling to listen to what see like sensible suggestions.

Very few people need to be on a ninja-keto diet, although some prefer it. I find life more comfortable if I can find something less extreme. It helps me fit in with the daily living of those around me, and gives me more options when out and about.

 

[azure]

Oh i have some cream. I just don't want to take it too much because it has carbs.

It has a tiny amount of carbs!

 

[bulkbiker]

I said that I have hypoglycemia on the basis of having low blood sugar episodes which I have had for almost 20 years

If you believe you have hypoglycaemia then why would you want to follow a diet which has been shown many time to lower blood sugar levels.

Avocado's aren't 15 carbs at all.

https://www.tesco.com/groceries/product/details/?id=256074560

https://www.avocadocentral.com/nutrition/avocado-nutrition-health-facts-label

(although both are different, which isn't helpful)

One is a UK site (Tesco) one is from the USA where fiber (check the spelling) is included in the total carb content.
So they are effectively saying than 100g of avocado has somewhere between 1-2 g of carb. As it is a naturally occurring product there will alway be some variation.
I do have a question for you though.
If you believe you are suffering from hypoglycaemia then why are you following a diet that is well known for lowering blood glucose levels?

 

[serenity648]

I wasn't aware that is too low. The keto macro calculators i've looked at tell me that's what i should be aiming for (a little less actually).

150g fat isn't just butter, it's all the fat i've eaten, including animal fat and other products like nuts and cheese. It's the total of the fats i've eaten.

I was using butter as an example of a fat, to show the calories you would find in a typical fat. I could use olive oil as an example too: http://oliveoillovers.com/calories-in-olive-oil-nutrition-facts/ I wasnt suggesting that you ate 150g of any particular fat. I dont know how old or tall you are so I dont know if your calorie consumption, if you dont want to lose weight, is OK. I am highlighting that your calculation may be off.

 

[Kristin251]

Avocado's aren't 15 carbs at all.

https://www.tesco.com/groceries/product/details/?id=256074560

https://www.avocadocentral.com/nutrition/avocado-nutrition-health-facts-label

(although both are different, which isn't helpful)

At the end of the day, you are refuting everything everyone says. Carry on In Your own world We all need to find our own balance. Find what works for you. Not sure anyone could suggest any other advice

 

[ghost_whistler]

It has a tiny amount of carbs!

And I eat it.

Just not sure it sates me.

I find the high fat element the toughest of all. It sounds easy to just swig on cream, or add more butter, but in practice that isn't how it works for me. And yes, part of that is a resistance from years of dietary orthodoxy. I have yet to meet a GP who thinks otherwise either, unfortunately.

 

[ghost_whistler]

If you believe you have hypoglycaemia then why would you want to follow a diet which has been shown many time to lower blood sugar levels.


One is a UK site (Tesco) one is from the USA where fiber (check the spelling) is included in the total carb content.
So they are effectively saying than 100g of avocado has somewhere between 1-2 g of carb. As it is a naturally occurring product there will alway be some variation.
I do have a question for you though.
If you believe you are suffering from hypoglycaemia then why are you following a diet that is well known for lowering blood glucose levels?

Because LCHF is indicated for dealing with blood sugar instability, by all its advocates.
The only other solution, and the only one advocated by all the doctors i've spoken to (including specialists), is "eat complex carbohydrates, and have more and smaller meals", which just masks the problem by having you eat more.

LCHF is also indicated for weight loss and if i can get to my ideal weight a number of these issues might also resolve themselves. Certainly being 20kg overweight is never idea.

 

[ghost_whistler]

I was using butter as an example of a fat, to show the calories you would find in a typical fat. I could use olive oil as an example too: http://oliveoillovers.com/calories-in-olive-oil-nutrition-facts/ I wasnt suggesting that you ate 150g of any particular fat. I dont know how old or tall you are so I dont know if your calorie consumption, if you dont want to lose weight, is OK. I am highlighting that your calculation may be off.

My calorie consumption varies. This is because I've no idea what my ideal caloric intake is meant to be. Keto calculators give different answers, and clearly what I was eating was too low. So I figured 1700 was a better goal to try for and still lose weight, but healthily. Whether this figure is good, I have no idea. I would struggle eating more fat if that was required. I'm also not sure that i need slightly more protein. It's trial and error, that's the problem. The best guess from the various calculators was about 163-70. So 1700 seemed a safer bet.

 

[ghost_whistler]

At the end of the day, you are refuting everything everyone says. Carry on In Your own world We all need to find our own balance. Find what works for you. Not sure anyone could suggest any other advice

I haven't refuted anything.

 

[azure]

And I eat it.

Just not sure it sates me.

I find the high fat element the toughest of all. It sounds easy to just swig on cream, or add more butter, but in practice that isn't how it works for me. And yes, part of that is a resistance from years of dietary orthodoxy. I have yet to meet a GP who thinks otherwise either, unfortunately.

Then why worry about the miniscule amount of carbs?

Every suggestion is met with a problem - tinned fish? Too expensive. Cream? Got carbs in, etc etc etc

Choose what you want to eat - and eat it. It really is that simple. If you're hungry, eat more. If you're worried about Food X, don't eat it. These are all decisions adults make for themselves on a daily basis.

It really is as simple as that.

This thread is going round in circles and has served its purpose.

 

[ghost_whistler]

Then why worry about the miniscule amount of carbs?

Every suggestion is met with a problem - tinned fish? Too expensive. Cream? Got carbs in, etc etc etc

Choose what you want to eat - and eat it. It really is that simple. If you're hungry, eat more. If you're worried about Food X, don't eat it. These are all decisions adults make for themselves on a daily basis.

It really is as simple as that.

This thread is going round in circles and has served its purpose.

Every suggestion is discussed, that is not the same thing. I don't find eating cream from the pot to be sating, hence being hungry two hours after eating on a diet that's meant to erase that kind of hunger.

 

[azure]

Every suggestion is discussed, that is not the same thing. I don't find eating cream from the pot to be sating, hence being hungry two hours after eating on a diet that's meant to erase that kind of hunger.

Then change/amend your diet! It's not a life sentence! I know you want to persist with keto but it's your decision whether you put up with the 'side effects' or not.

And you didn't say that cream didn't sate you - you said it had carbs in.

No, this isn't normal discussion. It's like trying to score a goal (ie answer a question) with the goal posts being moved continually.

 

[ghost_whistler]

Then change/amend your diet! It's not a life sentence! I know you want to persist with keto but it's your decision whether you put up with the 'side effects' or not.

And you didn't say that cream didn't sate you - you said it had carbs in.

No, this isn't normal discussion. It's like trying to score a goal (ie answer a question) with the goal posts being moved continually.

You've just quoted me saying it doesn't sate me.