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I am an ex-diabetic type 2 and happy.

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Where's the contradiction?
I was saying that ideas point to issues, those ideas may (if they are taken as true), cause the person to react and that reaction is somatic. I gave the simple case of anxiety because it is a simple example of conflicting emotions causing problems, especially for the heart. But I wanted to stress that it is not always a simple matter. Emotional reactivity is only one sort.

For example if the person perceives danger and it is not evident that the danger is external AND at the same time there are ideas of some internal problem, the person's immune system might be stimulated to react unnecessarily and do damage to cells.

In the case you bring here about the medical problem of this patient, there would have been ideas that she may have treated as treal BUT there could have been some other conflict due to her bodies reaction to a number of ideas. It is hard to say anything much if one doesn't know the person's problems.

What I was trying to do in that post was to point out that
1. I am NOT a New Ager, and
2. That I see problems with the simplistic views that New Age ideas convey.

Doctors talk about stress and stress hormones but they don't
go on and explain the reactivity in the body in any detail at all. They only talk about diet and exercise, which are important but stress IMO is even more important.
Kyrani



,
I am agreeing with you Kyrani.
I can personally tell you that without a shadow of a doubt, it has been stress/anxiety in my past that has caused physical issues for me too. I had been through sheer hell emotionally for five years when I was diagnosed with cancer. It didn't even surprise me at the time because I knew how much out of sync I had felt for those years.

I can even draw on my present 'mystery illness' that as yet is undiagnosed. I lost my best friend of thirty years, my dad, and my beloved 11 year old dog, all in the space of a year. I was told I had a measure of depression, and then I started to feel really ill physically (still do). I don't have panic attacks, but I KNOW that anxiety and depression are closely linked. Top that up with being worried about nobody actually knowing what is wrong with me and of course I am keeping my symptoms ticking over nicely. I am aware of it and trying to address it.

I am query ME because I have had bouts like this before, but perhaps my emotions may be playing a huge part. My eyes are well open to it all. I wouldn't mind if doctors finally diagnosed me as having a stress born illness that is cyclic, because it would be an answer and I can work with that.
 
I am agreeing with you Kyrani.
I can personally tell you that without a shadow of a doubt, it has been stress/anxiety in my past that has caused physical issues for me too. I had been through sheer hell emotionally for five years when I was diagnosed with cancer. It didn't even surprise me at the time because I knew how much out of sync I had felt for those years.

I can even draw on my present 'mystery illness' that as yet is undiagnosed. I lost my best friend of thirty years, my dad, and my beloved 11 year old dog, all in the space of a year. I was told I had a measure of depression, and then I started to feel really ill physically (still do). I don't have panic attacks, but I KNOW that anxiety and depression are closely linked. Top that up with being worried about nobody actually knowing what is wrong with me and of course I am keeping my symptoms ticking over nicely. I am aware of it and trying to address it.

I am query ME because I have had bouts like this before, but perhaps my emotions may be playing a huge part. My eyes are well open to it all. I wouldn't mind if doctors finally diagnosed me as having a stress born illness that is cyclic, because it would be an answer and I can work with that.

Hi SJC,

You can get your health back.

Emotions are an important aspect as you say, because as you realize they are physical reactivity in the body, which means the person’s body function is changed and that change continues until the emotions that cause it go away. Emotions should be spontaneous and transient. They should not be ongoing or episodic or conflicting etc.

To get rid of the emotional reactivity that is upsetting the body’s normal function, I found I had to address the issue and suggestions made to me by others.

Issues cause ideas to be upheld in mind, ideas about the issues and ideas that are a consequence of the issues etc. One can resolve the issues to discharge the ideas but not always. So how to discharge these ideas?

Issues, as far as I have seen, stem from conflict or some adverse influence with other people. Sometimes it is not obvious because those other people are two-faced and toxic and very often relatives, close (but false) friends or work associates. The obvious domestic violence, work bullying etc., is only the tip of the iceberg, IMO. I found that simply to understand what is being played out is the key. You don’t have to do anything more and certainly not confront them. I found toxic people look to create issues for the purpose of causing the other person suffering and get pleasure out of seeing the other suffer.

I found, in my life, that another purpose of manufactured issues was to be able to present ideas that are really only suggestions, but because of the issues and emotional reactivity, the ideas seem real.


One of the problems of such ideas is that if a person gets caught up in a maze. They treat the ideas as their own thinking and not as a mental perception. Once I saw that these were perceptions of some related but toxic person’s hateful suggestions, I could dismiss those ideas easily and bring my metabolism back to rest.

While I considered the ideas were my own, they carry my authority so I got caught up with trying to understand “why am I having this thought?” When I saw that it is only a mental perception then I discharge the suggestion from mind. With the idea gone the emotional reactivity ceased and my body returned to rest and normal function.. disease gone! I have resolved many problematic medical conditions and some were bad enough the doctors said “nothing we can do”. Now I can avoid even developing disease. No doubt I am bad news for big pharma. LOL

Kyrani
 
..Sorry Kyrani, I don't understand how you can say '**** NEVER just happens' as if its a fact.......I agree with Heathenlass.....thinking '**** happens' [for most of us over here], is just a way of coping/accepting/thinking 'oh well' and moving forwards without dwelling too much/analysing things which actually have happened.....I respect your point of view and we all think the way we choose to...:cool:

Yeah I can see now how the term is being used here from my conversations with Heathenlass/ Signy, It is completely different from my experience.

I reacted to it initially when I saw it because in the last fifteen or so years I have been hassled countless times. There are very nasty people (including a few corrupt police), who have played foul games to try and me harm. Every time they want to take distance and some of them had the audacity to say “sh*t just happens” about their handiwork.

However they never counted on someone like me. I documented everything and I can now share with others how toxic people play games and how the other person can avoid being harmed. The irony is that they should never had started a war against me because now I am blogging their exposure.

Kyrani.
 
Hi SJC,

You can get your health back.

Emotions are an important aspect as you say, because as you realize they are physical reactivity in the body, which means the person’s body function is changed and that change continues until the emotions that cause it go away. Emotions should be spontaneous and transient. They should not be ongoing or episodic or conflicting etc.

To get rid of the emotional reactivity that is upsetting the body’s normal function, I found I had to address the issue and suggestions made to me by others.

Issues cause ideas to be upheld in mind, ideas about the issues and ideas that are a consequence of the issues etc. One can resolve the issues to discharge the ideas but not always. So how to discharge these ideas?

Issues, as far as I have seen, stem from conflict or some adverse influence with other people. Sometimes it is not obvious because those other people are two-faced and toxic and very often relatives, close (but false) friends or work associates. The obvious domestic violence, work bullying etc., is only the tip of the iceberg, IMO. I found that simply to understand what is being played out is the key. You don’t have to do anything more and certainly not confront them. I found toxic people look to create issues for the purpose of causing the other person suffering and get pleasure out of seeing the other suffer.

I found, in my life, that another purpose of manufactured issues was to be able to present ideas that are really only suggestions, but because of the issues and emotional reactivity, the ideas seem real.


One of the problems of such ideas is that if a person gets caught up in a maze. They treat the ideas as their own thinking and not as a mental perception. Once I saw that these were perceptions of some related but toxic person’s hateful suggestions, I could dismiss those ideas easily and bring my metabolism back to rest.

While I considered the ideas were my own, they carry my authority so I got caught up with trying to understand “why am I having this thought?” When I saw that it is only a mental perception then I discharge the suggestion from mind. With the idea gone the emotional reactivity ceased and my body returned to rest and normal function.. disease gone! I have resolved many problematic medical conditions and some were bad enough the doctors said “nothing we can do”. Now I can avoid even developing disease. No doubt I am bad news for big pharma. LOL

Kyrani

You could be reading my mind LOL. Conflict is a good word. Dis-ease is another - not at ease or negative ease. People get caught up in believing both their fears and their thoughts and a never-ending cycle ensues. Life is an ongoing learning process and I feel lucky to have an enquiring mind. Being 'influenced' by the behaviour of 'others' in the negative sense can be very detrimental.
 
You could be reading my mind LOL. Conflict is a good word. Dis-ease is another - not at ease or negative ease. People get caught up in believing both their fears and their thoughts and a never-ending cycle ensues. Life is an ongoing learning process and I feel lucky to have an enquiring mind. Being 'influenced' by the behaviour of 'others' in the negative sense can be very detrimental.

Hi SJC,
You say "people get caught up believing both their fears and their thoiughts" this is true, but why?

My late, toxic husband had admitted to me and which I discovered for myself later, is that beliefs can be manufactured. Very briefly, the person is threatened as to feel fear but it is done cunningly so they don't understand why . Then at the same time they are presented with some suggestion mentally by someone closely related. They thus mistake the fear they feel as a result of the idea, when really the two are coincidental but unrelated..

when a person feels strong emotion associated with an idea they tend to treat the idea as real and uphold it with confidence that it must be real. This can be easily overcome, just by knowing the way the cheats are done. If the person realizes the idea is just a suggestion and unrelated to the fear they easy discharge the idea from mind and avoid getting caught in the foul game.
 
A great example of this is the unwarranted fight/flight response. Even if there is nothing to fear, the body is telling the person they were right to be fearful of ...that feeling, that sensation or thought. The whole thing is a very clever bluff BUT, many people with panic disorder for instance, don't even realise that their body is actually healthy and only responding to 'thoughts'. Many sufferers actually believe it's the other way around. It's all about first fear and second fear. Without 'thought' the adrenaline response simply wouldn't kick in. We have to feel a fearful emotion first. This is why panic disorder can last for decades/lifelong. A sufferer's perception of why they feel like they do often interferes with progress to eliminate the disorder. They often believe it really is a physical disorder and they are merely reacting.
 
Personal attack???? Please explain.
I said I agreed with you on the stuff you wrote about New Age Ideas
and I could see how you were using the phrase when you last expained it. I had understood it different.
How is all that a personal attack?
Some confusion here I think. Should have thought more about that. We use it to mean daft in this area. Sorry.
 
I have been banned from two websites Women's Health and Richard Dawkins.
You want to find fault with me and not with the website people who ban me. On that score Martin Luther King (who was shot), Nelson Mandela (who was jailed 26 years) and Ghandhi (shot) and many others, were at fault because there were people who didnn't like them standing for Justice? I;ll bet they would have been banned from some websites too!
So you are comparing yourself to these people?
 
OK what happened to being open minded. You don't have to agree with what is being said by @kirani99 you don't even have to look at the websites if you don't want to, that is your choice. But there are people that believe for one reason or another that living a (Holistic life) balancing body,mind and spirit , that the body can self heal. It is just an idea you may be interested in. I thought we were here to share self help ideas. I have only been in this forum a short time but have seen people get hounded out.
But they are wrong
 
But they are wrong

Some people are curing themselves of cancer using an holistic approach. In fact, it seems to be a growing way to deal with the disease, especially in other European countries. We are always late to catch on to these kind of ideas and often don't take them seriously enough in the UK. Just my humble opinion :)
 
Doubt it.

There are many books to be found on using the mind and the imagination to balance the body and promote healing. I can not say if they work but when people have a chronic disease or illness, particularly a life threatening one, most would try anything if they thought it would help.
 
There are many books to be found on using the mind and the imagination to balance the body and promote healing. I can not say if they work but when people have a chronic disease or illness, particularly a life threatening one, most would try anything if they thought it would help.
And also many comics.
 
i dont really know whats going on in this thread but i reckon, when you watch a program on the telly about head lice, you get an itchy head, its a real itch, as real as a random itch, so if your mind can give you an itch, it can give hypercondriacts an illness, they may be in the mind but they are real, so imho it follows that if we can give ourselves illnesses, we can cure them too, for example, i dont get colds, why not? because when i fell a cold coming i refuse it entry, im way to busy at work to be ill, i literally refuse it, so if its possible to do that, why not cancer for example, im certainly not a spiritual type, but i definately believe that our minds are far more powerful than we realise and curing diseases would be a simple thing for it, if we knew how to tap into it

sorry if i completely missed the point of the conversation
 
i dont really know whats going on in this thread but i reckon, when you watch a program on the telly about head lice, you get an itchy head, its a real itch, as real as a random itch, so if your mind can give you an itch, it can give hypercondriacts an illness, they may be in the mind but they are real, so imho it follows that if we can give ourselves illnesses, we can cure them too, for example, i dont get colds, why not? because when i fell a cold coming i refuse it entry, im way to busy at work to be ill, i literally refuse it, so if its possible to do that, why not cancer for example, im certainly not a spiritual type, but i definately believe that our minds are far more powerful than we realise and curing diseases would be a simple thing for it, if we knew how to tap into it

sorry if i completely missed the point of the conversation
Think I will get my jacket
 
A great example of this is the unwarranted fight/flight response. Even if there is nothing to fear, the body is telling the person they were right to be fearful of ...that feeling, that sensation or thought. The whole thing is a very clever bluff BUT, many people with panic disorder for instance, don't even realise that their body is actually healthy and only responding to 'thoughts'. Many sufferers actually believe it's the other way around. It's all about first fear and second fear. Without 'thought' the adrenaline response simply wouldn't kick in. We have to feel a fearful emotion first. This is why panic disorder can last for decades/lifelong. A sufferer's perception of why they feel like they do often interferes with progress to eliminate the disorder. They often believe it really is a physical disorder and they are merely reacting.

What you have given is the official, medical opinion of psychiatrists and IMO it is unreasonable. Note the psychiatrists are saying “no apparent cause” and not “no cause”. There is no objective evidence.

MY FINDINGS and what I was told by toxic people is the following:

Without any visible signs, a person carrying a concealed weapon,

who has done crime before,

who is trivially relationally entangled with the targeted person,

can pose a threat, by upholding the intent to do a crime IF there is a triangle with a chief offender, i.e., someone strongly related to the targeted person.


The threat is simple. It is done by having made a prior arrangement that says “I’ll give you a call if I decide to give you the go ahead”.

In this way the criminal only needs to be in the vicinity of the targeted person, typically for 5-10 minutes to cause the person to feel intense fear. The idea of danger is not “just an idea”. It is a perception of a threat, of real danger.

From my knowledge, my university training and from my own research, I have yet to find a human being who does no feel fear (ie mobilize their body ready for action, what you call “fight or flight response”) in the face of danger. Conversely I don’t know of any idea that can cause a biological response other than the perception of real danger. I would be very interested if you have found otherwise.

My late husband, who was toxic, and by his own admission was for years involved in these types of games, told me (late in our marriage) how the cheat is done. He gave me information that I was able to verify. The cheat that gives rise to panic attack he said, is done for a variety of reasons. According to him the main reasons is to gain power and influence over another person to manipulate and control them, to limit their movements, to hurt them as revenge or to hurt them for not agreeing with the chief offender.

My late husband also said the chief offender is commonly a spouse (male or female), a sibling or other relative, an employer or other employee, a toxic friend etc. They must be related to the victim and they must be capable of gaining information about the victim, i.e., the victim would confide in them and tell them of their movements.

You can see more detail here if you want:
http://kyrani99book2.wordpress.com/chapter-1/

Sorrry I gave the wrong link, it is still relevant though so I leave it in.
This is the link I meant to give:
http://kyrani99book1.wordpress.com/

The “smoking gun” is found in the physiology, when one asks the question:

Why does a person panic? It depends on how a person reacts somatically. Different people react differently.



The answer that I found in the physiology was because of a coping mechanism that’s habit and hence automatic physiological response.



I have discovered in the observation of hundreds of people, two mechanism or ways of coping that uses physiology, they manipulated their breathing. There are probably other ways too that I haven’t seen or are not so readily visible. By my own experiments I found that it is possible to affect awareness by manipulating breathing.



In my research, I found that shallow breathing leads to lethargy and deep breathing leads to distraction. The distraction is due to the brain being engaged in too many activities at once. I found from my experiments that if there is deep breathing then the metabolism is raised and the brain is involved in a lot of extra activities. In serious thinking the type necessary to solve a problem, or concentrated perception, as happens in the 10 or 20 seconds before a fear response, the body lowers metabolism or keeps the metabolism at rest conditions. My experiments don’t include everyone.



Panic is not just fear. It is, as you have recognized in your reply, “escalating fear”. But it is IMO also mounting fear that a person doesn’t know how to handle, thus runs out of control.
 
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MY findings. NOT necessarily true of everyone, but does give a sound biological reason for the panic.

(I can give you my experimental procedure if you want to do the experiments for yourself. )

The initial fear rapidly raises the metabolism so the heart runs faster, the lungs breath deeper, the liver puts sugar into the bloodstream and so on.

The habits I discovered.

Shallow breathing with the perception of unpleasant ideas, starts giving signals to the heart to go slow at the same time when the heart is already going fast. Hence the heart becomes conflicted. It stresses the heart. So if shallow breathing is a habit and automatically engaged, then more danger is created. The net result is panic, fear on top of fear because increasingly the heart function is compromised.

Deep breathing with the perception of unpleasant ideas, starts giving the heart signals to go fast at a time when the heart is already going fast. Hence the heart can become overloaded or you might say overexerted and can become fatigued. In this case the heart function is excessive and may lead to heart muscle fatigue.


The best solution for a panic attack, which I recommend (and it does take some guts).

1. Acknowledge the fear and don’t try to run from it.

2. Look around at each person around you and concentrate on each one. You will soon realize the person, who poses danger. Walk up to them and ask them, politely, for some commonly asked information. For instance, ask them if they know where the nearest newsagency is or where the public toilets are located.


What you effectively do by such action is to take away the power gradient and reduce the situation to a level playing field. It doesn’t need to be said verbally but what a person says by such actions is “I see you”. That is the last thing they want. It also takes away the game tactics of the chief offender. The criminal is most likely to quickly walk away before they are even approached but even if they are taken off guard (pun is appropriate), you will find they start acting dumb as a cover.

Never confront them because they will use it against you because there is NO OBJECTIVE EVIDENCE!
 
So you are comparing yourself to these people?

These people are famous activists. There are a lot of people in the world who are activists, I am one of those people. Not all activists are famous, although I have attracted the attention of corrupt people. But I am not known by most people because I am not in the media on TV etc., I am working on the net though, as a blogge to raise public awareness wtih what I have discovered. It may be useful to some people and not to others. Everyone is different..
 
i dont really know whats going on in this thread but i reckon, when you watch a program on the telly about head lice, you get an itchy head, its a real itch, as real as a random itch, so if your mind can give you an itch, it can give hypercondriacts an illness, they may be in the mind but they are real, so imho it follows that if we can give ourselves illnesses, we can cure them too, for example, i dont get colds, why not? because when i fell a cold coming i refuse it entry, im way to busy at work to be ill, i literally refuse it, so if its possible to do that, why not cancer for example, im certainly not a spiritual type, but i definately believe that our minds are far more powerful than we realise and curing diseases would be a simple thing for it, if we knew how to tap into it

sorry if i completely missed the point of the conversation

I have found exactly the same, where the cold is concerned.

And what you suspect about cancer is also true, albeit a little more is involved in formulating a refusal.

You are right in the conversation!.


Our minds are powerful but it is not a simple “the power of the mind” etc., It is the thoughts that count and how we react to them. Reject the thoughts and the biology is undisturbed.

Kyrani.
 
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