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I was fit and healthy....now I have type 2

Discussion in 'Newly Diagnosed' started by Sgathach, Feb 15, 2020.

  1. Sgathach

    Sgathach LADA · Well-Known Member

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    Hi Everyone,
    I just found this forum and am super glad to have a resource to learn more.
    I think right now I'm jusy hoping for a bit of hope...
    I'm not in the Uk currently, but I got a blood test done this week as I've been feeling so low and weak and not normal. Back in August all was well according to my last blood test.
    I'm 33, was around 74kg in August and noticed I lost weight around emd of January, where I was now nearer 70 and under. Im, very active and healthy...ok i enjoyed pizza and biscuits but didn't think it was to a level that would push me into diabetes....
    This week, I had a blood sugar level of 365 mg. According to the chart thats about 20mmol. We are still waiting for results of other checks such as liver, iron etc, so I dont know my hbA1c yet but can't imagine it's good.
    The doctor told me it's type 2, gave me medication for a week and was told not to exercise and come back in a week to check again.
    Usually I train martial arts 4 or 5 days a week 1 to 3h, and walk a lot, but I rested and the next day I sat down a lot at work and took it easy, but I felt so so so horrendous. Went to a different doctor on the way home and they checked my level and it was 385, or around 21mmol. Was told to exercise. Went to training and got a glucose reader on the way and levels went down after training.

    I've been training pretty intensely all week and my level today was around 159 (8.9) from this mornings 303 (16.7?) (I am guessing due to a long lie, taking meds later and eating cornflakes for breakfast instead of oats and yoghurt as usual)

    Most of the week I was fluctuating between 200 to 300, having started 3 days ago to cut out carbs, sugar, upping protein and fat.

    So....from what I'm reading these numbers were pretty high.
    Is there any hope I'll be able to manage this via diet and exercise without medication some day or is it that my levels were so high originally, I just have to accept it now?
    I mean I love love love my exercise and when the first doctor told me I can't exercise, that was the worst part of my diagnosis, but since I found training helps, I'm very happy.....but now I'm a bit worried about rest days, it seems I can't take any rest days if I wamt my blood sugar to go down....

    Apologies this is a bit long, I'm still coming to terms with it all and I'll have more test results next week but any insight would be appreciated.
    Thank you so much.
     
    • Hug Hug x 6
  2. Metabolism_Boss

    Metabolism_Boss Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Very sorry to hear that you have been diagnosed with diabetes. Did you ask the first doctor why he didn't want you to exercise? The HbA1c result and other blood tests will give a clearer picture of where you are in terms of what your blood sugars have been like over the last three months or so. I would just like to give reassurance that whatever your situation, there are things that .you can do to improve your long term health, and this is an excellent place to begin that journey.
     
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  3. bulkbiker

    bulkbiker Type 2 · Oracle

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    Were you intentionally losing the weight or did it just "happen"?

    I'd be querying the T2 diagnosis and asking for more tests.

    If you are somewhere in the world where testing is available fairly cheaply I'd be asking for fasting insulin and maybe a c-peptide test .
     
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  4. Bluetit1802

    Bluetit1802 Type 2 (in remission!) · Guru

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    Hello and welcome.

    Did you ask the doctor why he thinks you are type 2? Losing weight unintentionally can be a symptom of type 1. Did you have any other typical diabetes symptoms such as frequent urination, an insatiable thirst, blurry vision?

    EDIT. Post crossed with that of @bulkbiker
     
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  5. HSSS

    HSSS Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Do you know why the first dr said definitely type 2? Have they done actual tests to rule out type 1? Very fit, young, losing weight are not typically type 2 alarms.

    what medication have they put you on?

    if it is type 2 then yes diet can do a lot to help but I think that needs confirming not asusming.

    edit triple crossed with the above. I’d add antibody tests to the list of requests too.
     
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  6. Jaylee

    Jaylee Type 1 · Moderator
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    Hi @Sgathach ,

    Welcome to the forum.

    Exersise;

    I'll tag in @Mbaker , who I believe has more than a passing interest in martial arts. Regarding this particular advice.

    Hope this helps.
     
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  7. sgm14

    sgm14 · Member

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    I can only speak from my personal experience, but I think if it is just been a week, then it may be too early to tell anything yet. When I (a 50 year male, about 60kg, reasonably healthy diet, but not particularly active) was diagnosed my figures were around the 20 mark and I was put straight on metformin and when I had my first checkup (which was a couple of weeks later) my figures were still high (maybe 15ish) and I was expecting the doctors to be unhappy and maybe increase my dosage, but their response was that I was making good progress. It took a while before my finger prick readings came down to the recommended levels, whereas I was expecting each day to be almost independent.

    As for why your first doctor asked you not to exercise, that does seems strange. The only reason I can think of, is that he is trying to see how bad your figures are without the intense exercise which would hide the problem. If he doesn't know you, he may not want to rely on you keeping up your exercise regime but also knows that you will need some rest days (unless you never get sick). If that is the case, then it would only be stopping the exercise for a short term.

    Don't fall in the trap of believing that a bad diet is the only reason for developing diabetes.
     
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  8. Sgathach

    Sgathach LADA · Well-Known Member

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    Thank you everyone,
    I didnt get a lot of information, there is a language barrier here too.
    I was super thirsty for a while before I got tested and first thought it was due to dry winter air here. Then thought I was exhausted cause I couldn't sleep as I had to get up to pee several times a night.
    It was a fasting blood test that was done, results were sent away but the blood sugar test was done the same day and that's when they told me.
    I didn't intentionally lose 3kg in 2 months, but I did up exercise from 3x 1h or 2h a week to pretty much 5x 1 to 3h a week plus a lot more walking and cycling.
    When I first noticed it I thought something is wrong, so, stupidly, I spent a week eating pizza and chocolate and whatever I fancied and the weight only went up slightly, so I figured ok must be training and went back to eating normally ....soon after I started being thirsty, low energy, couldn't sleep... then finally got tested.

    Low carb and exercise seems to work so far to at least bring my blood sugar to a normal range.
    The medication I have is called Zemimet, I'm not sure what it compares to in the UK.

    Really hoping I can fix this with diet...


    Edit to add, the only thing i found re exercising was that with super high levels, sometimes exercise can raise blood sugar too apparently, so maybe he was being careful.
    But I will change doctors and hope to get a lot more information and ask for the tests mentioned above too.
     
    • Informative Informative x 2
  9. HSSS

    HSSS Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    It seems this is a combination of metformin and Gemigliptan. Gliptans aren’t usually used as a first line, more when other things have failed. They are also used where weight loss is desired But it isn’t in your case. https://www.diabetes.co.uk/diabetes-medication/dpp-4-inhibitors.html. So overall I’m surprised by it.

    The metformin helps by preventing excessive liver dumps such as those experienced by type 2. The gliptans increase your insulin production, which if you are type 2 will be adding to an already overloaded insulin level that isn’t being used well. The theory is adding more insulin forces it to be used, by brute force if you like. That may happen but it also increases the original problem of insulin resistance. And if you’re type 1 it’ll only speed the honeymoon period along and wring out the last of your insulin that much faster. As you can tell I’m not a fan (not a dr I might add) and think diet is the way to start in type 2 and insulin in type 1.

    edit to add metformin won’t do a great deal, gliptans should have a more noticeable effect
     
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  10. Sgathach

    Sgathach LADA · Well-Known Member

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    Hmm....I wonder if I should not take the medication tomorrow and see if continued diet and exercise will keep my sugar levels low enough.
    I currently test when I wake up, before and after lunch, sometimes before and after exercise and before bed.

    I also just read more about diet and thought I can't drink milk or a lot of fat (again advice from previous doc) but just read milk and cheese is good....

    I am a bit worried now if I'm type 1 or type 2 if I could just be in a honeymoon period....Tuesday cant come fast enough....

    Thank you so much for all the advice, it helps so much
     
    • Hug Hug x 2
  11. Daibell

    Daibell LADA · Master

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    Hi. From what you say I agree with other posts that you should not assume T2 but ask for the two T1 tests. GPs often guess T2 without taking account of recent weight loss or life-style that can imply being T1.
     
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  12. HSSS

    HSSS Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Typical low fat advice comes with high carbs usually. It’s based on dodgy Ancell Keys based science and really hasn’t worked out so well in terms of obesity and type 2 epidemic has it? It scaremongers eating fat will make you fat (for a type 2its carbs that’ll do that) and it’ll clog up your arteries and give you heart attacks which the science and figures just don’t support.

    Milk can be quite carby but cheese is absolutely fine.
     
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  13. Mbaker

    Mbaker Type 2 (in remission!) · Well-Known Member

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    Thanks @Jaylee, I will add some pennies. I am a former British Open Karate Champ. These days (last 4 -5 years) or so I do the basics (4 types of kicks and blocks with punches) almost everyday, either as a warm up before weights or around 300 punches whilst walking. So my 2 pennies are that martial arts are a phenomenal all round strength, core and conditioning discipline, especially when seasoned technique is used (correct posture, breathing, explosive movement, deep stances, minimal rest, core tension at impact).

    As your numbers have not got worse with your training and this is part of your routine, I would keep this variable in, as it will keep you fit and clearly you enjoy this. Fitness is different to health, which is where the focus needs to be with fitness augmenting this as an welcome option.

    Whilst not diagnosing, but based on observations (which I know the other extremely experienced contributors @bulkbiker, @Bluetit1802 and @HSSS have thought about), I would encourage you to follow the sentiments in their comments, just summarizsd to vigorously insist on Type 1 / 1.5 tests. If you don't get any joy, I would actually go to hospital and not move until assessed (this is just what I would do).

    Whilst it is entirely possible to get Type 2 whilst exercising, all of the anecdotes I have seen tend to have numbers either in the pre-diabetic range or just above; you have given numbers of 20 mmol for blood glucose, which is what I had. Firstly how on earth are you functioning, I was all over the place at that number, and even at 16 I felt horrendous. Until you have your tests, I cover food interventions with a walk / martial arts, whilst monitoring via a blood glucose monitor, getting good sleep and relaxation. You don't have to settle for anything, as you can adjust according to your circumstances. Keep the thread alive, and you can get route 1 views from those who have been there. Just a warning, the official advice is likely to be different.
     
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  14. TriciaWs

    TriciaWs Type 2 (in remission!) · Well-Known Member

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    If you are T2 then going low carb ASAP will make a lot of difference but be careful with the drug as that may cause hypos (Metformin which is usually the first thing offered here doesn't).
    If T1 or other type then reducing carbs can prevent blood sugar spikes which is always good.

    I still have some milk, but full fat instead of skimmed - I use a mix of coconut milk or double cream with some FF cow's milk and extra water in my lattes these days.
    And full fat, real Greek yogurt every evening with fresh raspberries (I only eat raspberries, blueberries, rhubarb or occasionally a couple of strawberries these day).
     
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  15. Sgathach

    Sgathach LADA · Well-Known Member

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    @Mbaker thank you very much, yes I do think martial arts are great to keep fit and healthy. We train everything, from stretching to sparring to forms to kicks and punches.
    I'm fairly sure whenever this started, I kept eating carbs cause I didn't know any better, then trained some of the sugar off every night and whenever I rested sugar built up and I felt worse, trained and felt better, rinse and repeat.

    I'm glad training is there to keep me healthy, but I do still ask myself what set it all off, why I was ok 6 months ago and suddenly...well.

    I went to a different doctor today and explained where I'm at and the doc immediately suggested the peptide and Hb1Ac test, so I'm getting the results for that on Tuesday.

    I'll update as soon as I find out more.
     
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  16. EllieM

    EllieM Type 1 · Well-Known Member

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    Excellent. Like everyone else, I think your symptoms sound as though T1 is a possibility. Unfortunately some doctors assume T2 for all new adult diabetics, even though half of T1s get diagnosed as an adult.

    Look at it this way : if it's T2 then you are likely to be able to keep it under control by reducing carbs. (And blaming your diet for causing it is a bit like someone who has just discovered that they have coeliac's disease blaming themselves for having eaten bread).

    If it's T1 then you can console yourself with the thought that there is nothing you could have done to avoid it and you will have more dietary freedom than a T2

    Good luck.
     
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  17. Sgathach

    Sgathach LADA · Well-Known Member

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    Thank you, that gives me a bit of hope hah....either I can live without meds and good diet or I still get to eat pizza and sweets.

    Will be glad to know for sure, for now I find nothing really lowers blood sugar, the only way to decrease the number is to exercise and walk. Today I had no training and rested/had a nap and the sugar went higher again even after a low carb meal.
    Had no choice but to go for a walk to drop it again. I like exercise but I do worry that I'll never be able to relax now whether I eat or not and doing my best to walk or jump around after every meal.
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
  18. HSSS

    HSSS Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    It’s just for now til you find out what type therefore what management techniques are required. Hang tight for now. Hopefully it won’t be longer.
     
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  19. Mbaker

    Mbaker Type 2 (in remission!) · Well-Known Member

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    Our journeys are not all the same, but yours has some similarities to mine, in so far as you were eating high GI foods. In the November of 2014 I felt fine (but was probably pre-diabetic or at least had metabolic syndrome), anyway I decided to go on a health kick. I ate loads of the wrong type of fruit for me (apples, oranges, bananas and worst of all punnets of grapes), on top of that I increased my plain oats with just cinnamon, rice pudding, again plain and the very worst dates and litres of the top brand orange juice. Put all of this on a table and it looks the picture of health - now we know it is just pure sugar. It took me less than a month to feel as though I was at deaths door, and of course the thirstier I got the more orange juice I drank.

    I remember an anecdote of a lady who had her HbA1c taken at circa 5.2, then less 2 months later full blown diabetes....there is for me definitely a threshold, pft (personal fat threshold) where insulin no longer holds down blood glucose, then wham. David Bobbet, the sponsor of Ivor Cummins was a fit man, aceing health tests, with a HbAc of either 5.2 or 5.3, but in truth he was a ragging diabetic, as his insulin was very high and the food spikes were huge. For others the decline is slower and less noticable.

    The HbA1c is not the be all and end all, glucose fluctuation is far more important in my view, I like no more than 1.5 mmol/l, standard is around 2 (whilst still hopefully being in the non-diabetic range). I look to HOM-IR, hdl / trig numbers and ratios along with hs-crp as key measurements.
     
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    #19 Mbaker, Feb 16, 2020 at 12:01 PM
    Last edited: Feb 16, 2020
  20. Sgathach

    Sgathach LADA · Well-Known Member

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    @Mbaker thats exactly what I did too to get more energy - tons of orange juice, fruit juice, bread (white...) with banana, peanut butter, yoghurt oats but with oat cereal thats mixed with sugar and chocolate (still 'healthy' but still carbs and sugar) ...and yeah...
    Guess it's just about accepting that time/insulin just ran out at that point.

    I thought apples and oranges are good because of fiber? I knew I had to be careful with bananas.
    Advice seems conflicting, cinnamon was meant to help lower blood sugar too?
    I just prepped morning oats with a lot less actual oats, more chia seeds, nuts and strawberries and way more yoghurt than before to balance it out more - i hope my system will agree.
     
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