Idiots guide to bg readings?

[retrogamer]

Google appears to be a huge source of misinformation regarding diabetes. Many pages I read tell a difference story about what "normal" levels should be.

I decided to test myself last night, I've been very good with carb free stuff for several weeks and bg has been around 5.6 - 6.0
I hadn't really tested before and after a meal so I decided to try something with carbs and see how I reacted. I had a baked potato, just with butter and cheese. Bg test immediately before was 5.6 as always, I got impatient and tested after about 1hr 45mins instead of the recommended 2 hours and it was 10.4

I cannot for the life of me find a reliable source of information to tell me if this is good or bad. Some sources say after 2 hours it should be below 8.5 in a non diabetic, others say 9 or even 9.5!

Is there an accurate source of information regarding what bg readings are acceptable and what is way above normal?

P.S. I am not falling off the low carb wagon, I intentionally chose to test myself with a high carb item because I sometimes still make mistakes and occasionally eat something that has more carbs than I realise. (As I'm sure many have at the start)

 

[Rachox]

This I what this forum recommends, personally i believe the lower the better, so I aim for the below non diabetic 7.8 after meals.

Normal and Diabetic Blood Sugar Level Ranges

Normal blood sugar ranges and blood sugar ranges for adults and children with type 1 diabetes, type 2 diabetes and blood sugar ranges to determine diabetes.

www.diabetes.co.uk

Have you tried the 14 day free trial of a Freestyle Libre, it can be very enlightening to see the continuous readings especially around meal times?

 

[JoKalsbeek]

Google appears to be a huge source of misinformation regarding diabetes. Many pages I read tell a difference story about what "normal" levels should be.

I decided to test myself last night, I've been very good with carb free stuff for several weeks and bg has been around 5.6 - 6.0
I hadn't really tested before and after a meal so I decided to try something with carbs and see how I reacted. I had a baked potato, just with butter and cheese. Bg test immediately before was 5.6 as always, I got impatient and tested after about 1hr 45mins instead of the recommended 2 hours and it was 10.4

I cannot for the life of me find a reliable source of information to tell me if this is good or bad. Some sources say after 2 hours it should be below 8.5 in a non diabetic, others say 9 or even 9.5!

Is there an accurate source of information regarding what bg readings are acceptable and what is way above normal?

P.S. I am not falling off the low carb wagon, I intentionally chose to test myself with a high carb item because I sometimes still make mistakes and occasionally eat something that has more carbs than I realise. (As I'm sure many have at the start)

I'm siding with Rachox here, I think a continuous glucose monitor'd be helpful to you. I tend to stick with the numbers she quotes too, but don't panic if I'm over by a little bit, for whatever reason. (Mistake in carb estimate when eating out, vaccinations, steroids, illness, whatever). If you're low carbing most of the time, don't sweat a few decimals. And if it's a one-off, well... Just try to stay under 8,5 if you can, as that's, from what I've gathered over the years, is where the damage starts being done. If you're up there for long periods of time, mind you. You're doing exceedingly well, keep that in mind eh.
Hugs,
Jo

 

[Deleted member 527103]

The other thing to remember is that home testing kits have a 15% error tolerance.
Therefore, a 9.5, could be reported as a 10.9.

Diabetes management has a lot of estimating involved from testing to counting carbs so it is good not to get too hung up on precise measurements.

AS for using a CGM - this is great for spotting rises and falls but it is important to be aware of limitations of CGMs - for example, as well as the accuracy mentioned above, they are designed to be most accurate at "normal" levels (between about 4 and 9) so highs (and lows) may be exaggerated.

 

[retrogamer]

This I what this forum recommends, personally i believe the lower the better, so I aim for the below non diabetic 7.8 after meals.

Normal and Diabetic Blood Sugar Level Ranges

Normal blood sugar ranges and blood sugar ranges for adults and children with type 1 diabetes, type 2 diabetes and blood sugar ranges to determine diabetes.

www.diabetes.co.uk

Have you tried the 14 day free trial of a Freestyle Libre, it can be very enlightening to see the continuous readings especially around meal times?

I'm siding with Rachox here, I think a continuous glucose monitor'd be helpful to you. I tend to stick with the numbers she quotes too, but don't panic if I'm over by a little bit, for whatever reason. (Mistake in carb estimate when eating out, vaccinations, steroids, illness, whatever). If you're low carbing most of the time, don't sweat a few decimals. And if it's a one-off, well... Just try to stay under 8,5 if you can, as that's, from what I've gathered over the years, is where the damage starts being done. If you're up there for long periods of time, mind you. You're doing exceedingly well, keep that in mind eh.
Hugs,
Jo

Thanks for the replies, just to clarify I'm not overly concerned with my bg readings as everything is still quite new to me and I've read plenty of stories of people having readings in the high teens so I'm obviously not doing too bad atm.

The continuous monitors sound like a good idea but as I'd be self funding there is no way I could afford that every couple of weeks. The trial sounds like a good idea though so I'll give that a shot.

I read a lot about foods spiking blood sugar levels what would be defined as a "spike"?

 

[JoKalsbeek]

Thanks for the replies, just to clarify I'm not overly concerned with my bg readings as everything is still quite new to me and I've read plenty of stories of people having readings in the high teens so I'm obviously not doing too bad atm.

The continuous monitors sound like a good idea but as I'd be self funding there is no way I could afford that every couple of weeks. The trial sounds like a good idea though so I'll give that a shot.

I read a lot about foods spiking blood sugar levels what would be defined as a "spike"?

A spike is usually considered one when it's a rise taking you out of the normal range.

 

[wes.w]

Thanks for the replies, just to clarify I'm not overly concerned with my bg readings as everything is still quite new to me and I've read plenty of stories of people having readings in the high teens so I'm obviously not doing too bad atm.

The continuous monitors sound like a good idea but as I'd be self funding there is no way I could afford that every couple of weeks. The trial sounds like a good idea though so I'll give that a shot.

I read a lot about foods spiking blood sugar levels what would be defined as a "spike"?

The 'back-to-before after 2hrs' has never applied to me (type 2 about 15 years ago), and I find that it takes 3 to 4 hours to return to the bg I had before eating. So don't rely on any statement about "normal" responses as everybody is a bit different. Take the CGM trial and you will probably be surprised on how much you can learn about your own body responses in the 10 to 14 days they last for, especially since you seem to be keen on experimenting. Both Libre and Dexcom offer free trials, so that's 3 weeks worth of experiments to try.

'Spikes' also can't be defined for the same reason. A 'two Jelly Babies' spike is usually quick, but a 'jacket potato' spike is longer.

 

[KennyA]

Google appears to be a huge source of misinformation regarding diabetes. Many pages I read tell a difference story about what "normal" levels should be.

I decided to test myself last night, I've been very good with carb free stuff for several weeks and bg has been around 5.6 - 6.0
I hadn't really tested before and after a meal so I decided to try something with carbs and see how I reacted. I had a baked potato, just with butter and cheese. Bg test immediately before was 5.6 as always, I got impatient and tested after about 1hr 45mins instead of the recommended 2 hours and it was 10.4

I cannot for the life of me find a reliable source of information to tell me if this is good or bad. Some sources say after 2 hours it should be below 8.5 in a non diabetic, others say 9 or even 9.5!

Is there an accurate source of information regarding what bg readings are acceptable and what is way above normal?

P.S. I am not falling off the low carb wagon, I intentionally chose to test myself with a high carb item because I sometimes still make mistakes and occasionally eat something that has more carbs than I realise. (As I'm sure many have at the start)

Part of the problem is that the USA still uses DCCT mg/dl and percentages. The numbers (compared to the IFCC standards most everyone else uses) overlap annoyingly and there is generally a lot of confusion eg - when UK people talk about a test showing 6.8 (meaning mmol/l) and people from the US will be claiming this is definitely diabetic because they think it's an HbA1c result shown as a percentage.

So be wary of any quoted figure that doesn't give the units it's measured in. The other thing is that people regularly mix up T1 and T2 recommendations, and I have to say there is also a lot of stuff on the internet that is just plain wrong.

The NICE guidelines on BG levels are here: https://www.diabetes.co.uk/diabetes_care/blood-sugar-level-ranges.html

I'd expect a similar BG result from a baked potato, particularly at one hour. There's no reason why you couldn't have tested again at +2. There's some research (quoted by Michael Eades this week, but I don't have the reference atm) showing (naturally) that carbs are the drivers of BG rises, but also that carbs with some fat (baked potato, butter and cheese fit nicely) turbo-charge the rise. He was challenging the readership to think of a food that naturally contains both carbs and fat, and pointing out that processed food typically contains high levels of both carbs and fat.

Some people call any rise in BG a "spike". I'd disagree. To me a spike would be a rapid rise in BG to what would be for me very high levels ( by that I mean >11). I wouldn't go looking for it.

I think that we need to set our own "acceptance levels" over BG rises and what's "normal". These days I would not want a result still over 6mmol/l after two hours. Of course my BG may well have been much higher during the two hours, but if my systems can bring me back to where I want to be after two hours, that's fine. For example, I know that a single small latte will take me from low fives to over 9 in about 20 minutes, but I'll be back to low fives by the one hour mark. In my book BG rises are natural and to be expected after anything with even small amounts of carb, and what I aim for for is a return to baseline as quickly as possible.

I would definitely recommend having a go with a CGM. If it works for you, it should give you a better picture of how your own BG behaves in response to food and other stimuli.

 

[retrogamer]

Some interesting things to consider, thanks for the detailed responses.

I think my biggest concern is that some sources of information are deliberately scaremongering because they generally have a product to sell. These places typically only tell the horror stories about what even just a minor elevation of bg above normal ranges can cause. I'm pretty sure many of you on here know the type of website I'm referring to.

I will definitely be taking the trial for these CGM methods because that will give me at least a couple of weeks worth of data and I can experiment with different types of foods to see how my body reacts. Hopefully it will show that my body can tolerate some carb sources, I don't want to go back to relying on carb heavy meals but there are times when a slice of toast or a potato would just accompany my meal and make it so much better. If it's not to be then so be it.

 

[retrogamer]

Apparently this is a required field when requesting a sample. I have no idea what I should put here as I have only seen my gp and only once!

 

[MrsA2]

And remember it's impossible to test one food in isolation because of all the other factors in play, not the least of which is what it was eaten with. A jacket potato with cheese and beans will peak higher and longer than one with prawns for example. A jacket potato will peak higher and longer than the equivalent weight of reheated new potatoes .

A cgm, and/or a bg monitor will give you rough guidelines and, imho, that's the best we can aim for, roughly good enough, most of the time

You'll work out where your levels of acceptance are.

 

[retrogamer]

And remember it's impossible to test one food in isolation because of all the other factors in play, not the least of which is what it was eaten with. A jacket potato with cheese and beans will peak higher and longer than one with prawns for example. A jacket potato will peak higher and longer than the equivalent weight of reheated new potatoes .

A cgm, and/or a bg monitor will give you rough guidelines and, imho, that's the best we can aim for, roughly good enough, most of the time

You'll work out where your levels of acceptance are.

I get that different factors will influence the results, the jacket potato was chosen because my family were having them anyway, (bonfire night tradition) and I just decided, why not test myself.
I have just requested a trial CGM sensor so hopefully I can spend a couple of weeks trialing different foods to see how they affect me. The diet I am following doesn't bother me and I haven't missed many of the foods I used to enjoy. Sandwiches are one thing I have missed, I used to love a ham and mustard or cheese and onion!! Some pasta dishes were hard to go without as well, I loved lasagne.

I just hope I find my body can tolerate certain carbs without adverse effects.

 

[Resurgam]

I get that different factors will influence the results, the jacket potato was chosen because my family were having them anyway, (bonfire night tradition) and I just decided, why not test myself.
I have just requested a trial CGM sensor so hopefully I can spend a couple of weeks trialing different foods to see how they affect me. The diet I am following doesn't bother me and I haven't missed many of the foods I used to enjoy. Sandwiches are one thing I have missed, I used to love a ham and mustard or cheese and onion!! Some pasta dishes were hard to go without as well, I loved lasagne.

I just hope I find my body can tolerate certain carbs without adverse effects.

You could try lasagne made with leek split along the tube to make the 'pasta' layers - make the other layers with less liquid as it will not be absorbed so the final result could be too sloppy.
Try cheese waffles instead of bread either as waffles with crinkles in a specialist maker - not bad for burgers, or use the same mix but thin it out a bit with more egg or milk or water, and make a wrap in a frying pan - like a pancake.
I need to stay quite low carb to be in normal numbers but I can make a lower than normal carb bread. I make a normal bread dough and let it rise once, then gently add in all sorts of low carb fibre and seeds and allow it to prove a second time as long as needed to rise properly. I tried to make it in a bread maker, but the second kneading just knocked all the rise out of it and it looked very sad when cooked.
I think that sometimes it is better to find an alternative to the high carb foodstuff rather than continue to try to cope with it. I have found that my alternative options are eaten eagerly by others once they tried them so now I know to take a lot with me when attending a party or risk being left with empty dishes

 

[KennyA]

View attachment 64134

Apparently this is a required field when requesting a sample. I have no idea what I should put here as I have only seen my gp and only once!

That's an addition since I had my free trial. Then I was asked only if I had had a diagnosis.

 

[retrogamer]

You could try lasagne made with leek split along the tube to make the 'pasta' layers - make the other layers with less liquid as it will not be absorbed so the final result could be too sloppy.
Try cheese waffles instead of bread either as waffles with crinkles in a specialist maker - not bad for burgers, or use the same mix but thin it out a bit with more egg or milk or water, and make a wrap in a frying pan - like a pancake.
I need to stay quite low carb to be in normal numbers but I can make a lower than normal carb bread. I make a normal bread dough and let it rise once, then gently add in all sorts of low carb fibre and seeds and allow it to prove a second time as long as needed to rise properly. I tried to make it in a bread maker, but the second kneading just knocked all the rise out of it and it looked very sad when cooked.
I think that sometimes it is better to find an alternative to the high carb foodstuff rather than continue to try to cope with it. I have found that my alternative options are eaten eagerly by others once they tried them so now I know to take a lot with me when attending a party or risk being left with empty dishes

Not sure about using alternatives to pasta, maybe I'll try it or I might try making a low carb pasta with something like lupin flour.
Cheese waffles I've actually tried, not too bad but not a bread alternative IMO. I have found Warburton's milk roll which only has 8.3g carbs per slice so in moderation it's not bad.
Making bread myself just isn't my thing, I tried and failed but I used almond flour which I really do not like. I might try again with different ingredients.

That's an addition since I had my free trial. Then I was asked only if I had had a diagnosis.

I just put my doctor's surgery in and they seem to have accepted it.

 

[Daphne917]

Not sure about using alternatives to pasta, maybe I'll try it or I might try making a low carb pasta with something like lupin flour.
Cheese waffles I've actually tried, not too bad but not a bread alternative IMO. I have found Warburton's milk roll which only has 8.3g carbs per slice so in moderation it's not bad.
Making bread myself just isn't my thing, I tried and failed but I used almond flour which I really do not like. I might try again with different ingredients.

I just put my doctor's surgery in and they seem to have accepted it.

I normally use courgettes thinly sliced for lasagne or spiralised for spaghetti however I sometimes fancy pasta and find that if I cook it, swill under the cold tap for 5 minutes and then reheat it doesn’t affect my levels too much.