Insulin response of Reactive Hypoglycaemics

[Linagirl]

Thanks Derek that is helpful. I understand a bit more now x

 

[Lamont D]

Thanks all of you for your encouragement.

Those of us in this 'fix' have to be fighters.
I shall give it my best shot to solve the problem.

I thought I had sorted breakfast, but I shall have to change my diet, other meals are OK. It is the small amount of porridge and half apple spiking me at +1hr after first bite. I was 8.5 this am and I must have produced a lot of insulin because I was 5.5 at 90 mins after first bite!

As Nosher says, we are all unique!
I must have early R.H.!
atb
Derek

I used to eat porridge with water and salt, until I found out it rockets my blood glucose so quickly that hyper problems then hypos were inevitable.
It's a grain and I've tried all types of oats, practically the same result, my pancreas goes into overdrive!
Half a small Apple is fine! Weird eh?
Derek, time to experiment, mate! Or it could be both!

 

[lindisfel]

Getting back to insulin response.

In lieu of insulin measurement I have a theory!

In my case B.G. peaks at one hour after first bite on carbs and I could hypo at c + two hours and my BG drops rapidly even sooner than two hours (say 75 mins).
It could be we all have insulin resistance and until we pour BG into our blood stream (at c.1hour in my case) it does not get above the operational threshold.
At this point we swamp our bodies with massive amounts of insulin and it causes our blood sugar to crash well below our fasting level, but our insulin takes time to get back to its ineffective 'normal' level.
Perhaps even our glucagon has an impaired response that slows our recovery to normal.
????
I cannot see how we will ever know without continuous insulin measurement?
regards
Derek

 

[lindisfel]

That aging Dr Kraft interview is very insightful.
D.

 

[Lamont D]

Hi, Derek.

The meds I'm on increase insulin production (go figure!) But lower glucagon output.

The really difficult thing is describing how it does it by inhibiting hormones in the gut and blood after digestion. Much more complicated because of alpha and beta cells and how it stops hypers so no hypos! It is known as a dpp4 inhibitor. So there's much chemical hormonal alteration.
It is the lowering of glucagon that stops the glucose from going to fast and the abnormal level of insulin is needed. But it doesn't stop the process altogether, I still hypo but later! So it doesn't stop the over production of insulin, but it helps slow down everything!
So I don't think I'm insulin resistant!

I wish it could be simply explained but we are all different and the condition doesn't follow normal rules for the patient.
For example your levels of excess insulin could be higher than mine, so you go hypo quicker, or your glucagon levels are higher and you hyper slower!
So we need to eat low carb anyway and stay away from even some low carb.
Of course, intolerance to grain, lactose, fructose and other starchy carbs and sugars, would have a bearing on any outcome.

 

[lindisfel]

Had a good fasting BG this am, first thing, it was 5.0.
Will check it again to see if its stable.
Was 5.8-6.0 a few weeks ago.
Stopped taking statins a couple of weeks ago, but will tell doctor when I see him in Jan.
regards
D.

 

[Kaz261]

That's brilliant Derek. Do you feel ok at that level? I've been getting a fasting level of 4.6 - 5.0 for the last week, but I feel quite shaky at these levels.

All the best
Kaz

 

[lindisfel]

Hi kaz, I feel ok but at 76 every morning is a slow start!
Weight down bmi now 23.4
regards
D.

That's brilliant Derek. Do you feel ok at that level? I've been getting a fasting level of 4.6 - 5.0 for the last week, but I feel quite shaky at these levels.

All the best
Kaz

 

[lindisfel]

I have just gone through the Dr Kraft interview on YouTube (he is the father of the insulin assay).

It really reinforces our need to reduce carbohydrate so that our insulin response returns to normal.

It is insulin that causes heart attacks even though the victims may have OK blood glucose! On testing an insulin assy would show they had high insulin and that should be how diabetes is diagnosed.
It makes one realize that increasing insulin or giving insulin to type 2's is a rather suspect practice.
I also have realized already to get my GGT down I need to get my insulin in normal range.
regards
Derek

 

[Lamont D]

I have just gone through the Dr Kraft interview on YouTube (he is the father of the insulin assay).

It really reinforces our need to reduce carbohydrate so that our insulin response returns to normal.

It is insulin that causes heart attacks even though the victims may have OK blood glucose! On testing an insulin assy would show they had high insulin and that should be how diabetes is diagnosed.
It makes one realize that increasing insulin or giving insulin to type 2's is a rather suspect practice.
I also have realized already to get my GGT down I need to get my insulin in normal range.
regards
Derek

This is why me and Brun are in ketosis!

Insulin is a necessary evil, it gets rid of glucose!

But having too much, makes you ill.
It is the imbalance that is the crux of what is going on!

Too much glucose, hyper!
Too much Insulin, hypo! This is the layman's explanation!
A T2 has too much insulin and too much glucose. And eating carbs or sugars just top up the tank so the hypers get higher. The body craves more, so we eat more and the trend keeps going up and up. Insulin resistance becomes worse because it can't create enough to deal with the high levels of glucose.

This is why I keep saying, there is more of us RH ers out there misdiagnosed as I was as T2!
Once we have our levels near normal then the insulin overshoot takes over and the hyper/hypo scenarios happen, hypo hell!

In T1s, it's having little or none insulin that the reason for injecting!
Same in T2s, were insulin resistance and burn out is when they need injections.

For some reason the quick use of glucose and the after effects of glucagon and glycogen, release more insulin.

Interestingly, to add to my last post, my meds increase my insulin, weird ain't it?

 

[lindisfel]

We went to a funeral today ...not a relative and the lady had a full life for most of her 92 years.

The funeral tea was difficult! There were enough carbs in the food to give an elephant diabetes!
The only food I dared to eat was the sausage out of three sausage rolls.
You should have seen the mess I made on the tablecloth removing every last vestige of puff pastry!

I really have been good I shall award myself some 'brownie points'.
D.

 

[Lamont D]

Indeed! Good boy for behavioural control!

Did you get questioned?

Aren't you diabetic?

Surely if you are not, you can eat...........?

Brown rice is good for you and wholemeal bread?

It's hard enough at social gathering without these idiots!

Now at work, when needs must, I pre order a salad, with whatever meat is available!

'Youre not eating enough for a working man!'

'So what happens when I have a fasting day?' I reply!

That shuts them up!!!!!!

 

[lindisfel]

Hi Nosher,
Our table was prepped well but I know now how the fasting Jesus felt when the Devil told him to turn the stones into bread!
D.

 

[Lamont D]

Did he break his teeth?

I am barred in work, to talk about my medical history, as I've bored them out of the trees!

Bet you J.C. was never on a low carb diet, with the bread and fishes story!
Mind you, the bread was unleavened, whatever that is?

 

[lindisfel]

Jews eat it at Passover, it is flat because they do not use yeast at Passover, but they do use yeast at other times.
D.

 

[Lamont D]

Jews eat it at Passover, it is flat because they do not use yeast at Passover, but they do use yeast at other times.
D.

Isn't that flatbread?

Wouldn't touch it though!

 

[lindisfel]

This link goes to an interesting article on the bloodsugar101 website explaining how the insulin response can deteriorate, as we move towards diabetes - long before any of the usual tests run by doctors will show any abnormalities.

http://diabetes.diabetesjournals.org/content/51/suppl_1/S117.full

Hi Brun,
The guy thinks too much fat causes diabetes!
D.

 

[Brunneria]

Hi Brun,
The guy thinks too much fat causes diabetes!
D.

Well, it does.
When a person exceeds their Personal Fat Threshold (phrase coined by Prof Taylor of the Newcastle Diet, I believe), the subcutaneous body fat stores kind of 'overflow' and the body starts storing fat as visceral fat - which 'plugs up' the internal organs (note my cunning use of technical terminology ), leading to T2.
In which case, defattifying the internal organs can reverse T2, because the liver and pancreas start functioning ok again...

Plus, there is the whole 'being fat increases insulin resistance' which just makes everything worse for fatties (like me).

Or did you mean that he thinks too much dietary fat causes T2?

Cos, i kind of agree with that too. But only in certain circs:

• When eaten with too many carbs
• When the individual has insulin resistance

- which describes the diet of a heck of a lot of people

Personally, I get to eat masses of dietary fat without weight gain
But only if i keep my carbs very low. As soon as i increase them, the weight gain starts...

 

[lindisfel]

Hi Brun,
I may have misread him but he seems to support low carb low fat.
atb
Derek
PS I am 1.95 and now dropping below 14 stone
Scraggy old man!!

Well, it does.
When a person exceeds their Personal Fat Threshold (phrase coined by Prof Taylor of the Newcastle Diet, I believe), the subcutaneous body fat stores kind of 'overflow' and the body starts storing fat as visceral fat - which 'plugs up' the internal organs (note my cunning use of technical terminology ), leading to T2.
In which case, defattifying the internal organs can reverse T2, because the liver and pancreas start functioning ok again...

Plus, there is the whole 'being fat increases insulin resistance' which just makes everything worse for fatties (like me).

Or did you mean that he thinks too much dietary fat causes T2?

Cos, i kind of agree with that too. But only in certain circs:

• When eaten with too many carbs
• When the individual has insulin resistance

- which describes the diet of a heck of a lot of people

Personally, I get to eat masses of dietary fat without weight gain
But only if i keep my carbs very low. As soon as i increase them, the weight gain starts...

 

[Brunneria]

Yes, the dates on the article are 2001/2
That's long before the HF revolution started...