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Intermittent fasting: 14/10-16/8, 5:2, 24-hr fast, 20-hr fast

Discussion in 'Fasting' started by AloeSvea, Jun 30, 2015.

  1. Finsky

    Finsky Prefer not to say · Well-Known Member

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    DAY 7 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    Phew...fiiiinally there. Like I dared to say yesterday... that "maybe I will stretch this fast another day or so2...WELL, my tummy heard that..:rolleyes:...and it definitely do not agree with that sort of thoughts.o_O
    I started to be REALLY 'head hungry' yesterday...smelled any whiff of food that came around and it all was so tempting..I keep looking anything edible that is in the kitchen and feel tempted to nibble, even if it is just a single peanut or flax seed! :rolleyes:
    And my tummy has kept me up all night..it has been moaning at me!:rolleyes:..and I've felt cold too..so I just cannot fight against a 'thing' that has so much power over me...and mind of its own. I know fasting does increase growth hormone production..but did it already grew new brain into tummy too?!:eek:
    I shall carry on to the full hours...and tonight it is all coming to an end. I shall have few 'crumbs' of food..just teeny bit to get tummy something else to do (to shut it up) and hopefully it will settle into good night sleep...and me too;)
    I shall carry on with LCHF diet with IF thrown in into mix..get myself back in routine and once settled I shall have a go at 24 h fasting sessions and see which might work better. That's the plan anyway...
    I will do longer sessions again, but as I'm really busy over summer months...this thing tends to take over my life so won't do it when it will restrict my life so much.. until later on the year again.
    Roll on next 12 hrs....:cool::D
     
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    #181 Finsky, May 6, 2016 at 6:34 AM
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  2. Finsky

    Finsky Prefer not to say · Well-Known Member

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    Oh, another thing to add..sorry I've taken over this thread with my ramblings..maybe there is little useable info somewhere there that may come useful for somebody else, who is attempting to have a go fasting.
    All this rattle has been real help for me..it has kind of organized thoughts that go around in my head and seeing them put on writing put them in better order (not only that...the times I've had to edit them to make them look even little bit readable:rolleyes:...fingers go faster on buttons that brain and eyes can work out)
    I have one more post to come about all this later on....to reveal my weight loss..something that I look forward to find out myself..but it will have to wait until I have got rid of all the excess fluids that are sloshing around my system.
     
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  3. Finsky

    Finsky Prefer not to say · Well-Known Member

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    I said 'I have one more post to come'...WELL..here it is then...

    Day 7 in whole wasn't that good. I went to work and it wasn't the best idea in the world :rolleyes: But I pushed through...went shopping..:rolleyes:, pushed through that too...and back home I retired on settee..I was not feeling great. But as stubborn as I am, I was damned if I were to give up in last hurdle. So when time came for first nibbles I had teeny bit..waited...had another teeny bit so on. Whole 6 hrs of 'teeny bits' and I was feeling gooood:D Then for some mad brain fog got me and I figured that as I am eating, I better take my metformin...??????!!!!!!o_O:rolleyes: So I did...
    Slept wonderfully all night..woke up, shifted myself into bathroom for morning clean up and all of the sudden world went black:eek: HYPO was my first thought..shuffled on my back side to downstairs as all my emergency supplies were downstairs:banghead: Took sugar 'tablet'...tested my blood sitting on floor and they were fine!?? And then tummy made mighty sound and I had to stagger back upstairs into bathroom...yep, I bet you guessed it..METFORMIN did it's nasty tricks..let say, at that point there was no food in my entire system anymore:rolleyes: Had some water and collapsed on bedroom floor for 1/2 hour nap. BOY it was scary attack..I've never fainted but this time it wasn't far off.
    So now I'm back to 'recovery' diet..this time even more careful as I've had tummy ache all day.
    On a good note..extra fluids have started drain out...yep...more trips to upstairs..and I've been on scales and so far they are showing 4kg loss over last 7 days. As I have to be very careful and not able to return normal eating for few days yet..I suspect little bit more will drop off.
    On a not so good note....that sugar 'tablet' cause real spike for my otherwise decent sugar levels..:rolleyes:..oh well, It will wear down, and I won't definitely take anything for it.
    So that is that...another chapter for the story and plenty of lessons learned :rolleyes:
     
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    #183 Finsky, May 7, 2016 at 1:39 PM
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  4. zicksi101

    zicksi101 Type 1 · Well-Known Member

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    Nice work on the fasting Finsky! Sounds rough going on the last day but you must be happy with the results.

    Today was round 2 of basal testing for me, this time I managed it without a hypo! :D 22 hours of fasting complete.

    Started the morning a little higher than I'd like, 11.6, that'll be the food at dinner after my run last night :banghead: however it kind of worked in my favour because it came down to 8.3 by 10am after my insulin and my usual walk to work. Held nicely at noon on 8.6, I was feeling good, not hungry at all, so I just kept going. Came down to 7.2 after my walk to the shops. Held beautifully on 6.9 after my walk and stayed there all afternoon until it was time to finish work, then finished the basal test on 8.0 (that'll be the Levemir wearing off).

    My basal rate is kind of interesting in that I am on injections, but I need to take a limited amount of Levemir to avoid hypo in the afternoon. So the way I do it is take 5u levemir plus a correction dose for the dawn phenomenon. Today that correction dose was 3u of Novorapid, but I now know that's 1u too much when I eat nothing.

    The walking to work and back plus on my lunch hour represents what I normally do on working days, so the exercise was not unusual as far as basal testing is concerned. I'd probably need more insulin if the walking wasn't included, but that simply wouldn't reflect the reality of what I do most days.
     
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  5. magsiesss

    magsiesss Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Just a quick question .... how can you do the 5:2 fasting diet (or any other fasting diet over a long period) whilst taking meds?

    I am supposed to take meds with breakfast, lunch and dinner .... making it difficult to fast.

    Suggestions?
     
  6. Finsky

    Finsky Prefer not to say · Well-Known Member

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    I did it by stopping taking tablets (can't take them into empty tummy anyway) and reducing the total amount of injectables AND by splitting the dozes so that I would have more control over when the blood sugars started to drop down. Once on downward mode, I stopped taking meds altogether...or because I'm on insulin, I was able to take little adjustment injection with short acting insulin. After couple of days I didn't need any adjustments at all.
    BUT...it does involve plenty blood testing through out the day and odd one during night too so you really know what is going on with your blood sugar levels.
    Unfortunately it is really down to trial and error...hopefully less of the error. Before I started fasting, I was already doing very low carb diet for a period...so I was able to ease my body into fasting and already giving myself chance to bring those medication levels down..meds adjustment for fasting wasn't big jump anymore.
     
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  7. magsiesss

    magsiesss Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Thank you Finksy .... I can see me skipping breakfast but that is about it.
     
  8. Finsky

    Finsky Prefer not to say · Well-Known Member

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    It is not easy to do without 'training' you body to it...and longer term fasting is not easy even then. But even short term fasting has really good benefits for insulin sensitivity reducing resistance as well! If you are curious to try..give yourself a week or two as 'trial period' and see what happens. It doesn't have to be any longer than 'skipping breakkie'. Have you evening meal night before....say 6'is , take you meds as normal...don't eat anything after that, just drinks...go to bed...in the morning; have a hot drink which doesn't have 'energy' (milk), but don't take any meds yet. Test your blood sugar...wait another 2-3 hours and you've propably extended your fasting time to 14-16 hours! Have your low carb breakkie and your meds.
    Now looking at your list of medicines..if I would be you...I would carry on taking normal doze, but as soon as your blood sugar levels start coming down to 'lower normal' range, I would reduce the Gliclazide, taking only half of it...and probably only in the morning as your medicine needs are higher during day. If my blood sugars would stay in 'lower normal range' by taking just that half doze...I would be tempted to drop the reminding half and see what happens. You never know, if you can carry on with extended night time fasting hours and they have so good impact..you might be able to keep off from 'Glicl' altogether. And maybe eventually start 'tackling' with those metformin quantities too...;)...all is possible, though not quite in first 2 weeks..it would be more of long term thing.
    That is how I weaned myself off from my 'spare' tablets and reduced my insulin intake by half...LCHF diet and IF..they've proved to work for me brilliantly in long term...as longs as I keep it going. But I rather do that than take those meds. Longer term fasting will result for more rapid weight loss but haven't benefited me blood sugar wise...other than during the fast...I'm yet to see lasting effects after the fast....though the lost weight is keeping off!
    Doing IF for that period of time, daily...it will soon some as 'habit' and it is not a big deal anymore. Occasionally you do get hungrier...but it is not big deal...just have earlier breakkie and carry on IF'ing next day if you don't feel need for early breakkie again. It is all about listening your body and not eating when absolutely not necessary.

    Edit to add... Of course I have recommend to be in touch with you DN when doing any changes...;)...but the same principle still apply. You would have to show them some blood sugar results....they would see that there is need for medicine reduction...they would tell you to reduce your intake by a step at the time and if you are unlucky with the person you are dealing with, the is chance that they would not see quite eye to eye with you for such a 'drastic need for dietary changes':rolleyes: But end of the day, it would come down for same thing...they would take 'educated guess' to reduce the meds a little and see how you go on with it..
     
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    #188 Finsky, May 16, 2016 at 8:24 AM
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  9. magsiesss

    magsiesss Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Thanks again Finsky.

    I have an appt to see my GP today and have printed off blood test results from when I was first diagnosed and another chart showing just the last month - showing a HUGE reduction in BS results. One of my questions today will be to ask where do I have to be to reduce Glic ... I agree that any Met reduction will be after I am off Glic .. one small step at a time. My average results are now 6.2

    I sort of did a fasting yesterday, skipping breakfast until midday and my results were great (I just took meds at lunch and evening meal instead of at breakfast/lunch/dinner - 4.8 before bed and 4.9 bfs this morning) so I am looking forward to seeing doc a I just cannot seem to loose weight yet despite moving more and eating less.
     
  10. walnut_face

    walnut_face Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    This has been an inspiring read, I have dabbled with 5:2, 16/8 IF or skipping breakfast as I prefer to call in, and yesterday managed my first 24 fast. BG was elevated yesterday, but not by much. My weight goal is within reach so 5:2 is nearing retirement, as I seek a sustainable maintenance phase going forward.

    Again a BIG thanks to all the contributors, and if I have something positive to contribute with my own experiments I will report here
     
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  11. Stevia_queen

    Stevia_queen Prediabetes · Well-Known Member

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    Yes I was using xylotol for a while 4g of carbs per 100grms raised it by 1 mmol
    I bought some erythmitol low GI sugar sub from plant or corn no additives etc organic.
    whilst in new york last week which is low GI and also 4g carb per 100g. Only raises by 0.5 mmol
    Half a tsp of Maple syrup I noticed brings blood sugars right down!! From 5.3 to 3.2mmol!!
    I have been trying to find sweetners that does not impact on pancreas and insulin/ blood sugar levels.
    I did buy something called stevia brit a month ago when i posted this but I think it has little stevia at all which is why it spiked me 2mmol higher. I will stick with the erythmitol for my coffee in the morning but only get it from usa online.
    I think ill try a half tsp of organic maple syrup in it next week and see if the drop in blood sugar continues.
     
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  12. Brunneria

    Brunneria Other · Moderator
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    Amazon sells erythritol at OK prices.
     
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  13. AloeSvea

    AloeSvea Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    @Finsky - it has been really interesting reading your experiences with the 7 day fast, and perfectly legit to have it in a thread on fasting, intermittent or not. It's all in the cause of dealing with blood glucose and insulin - pesky pancreases and leaky livers and what-not.
     
  14. AloeSvea

    AloeSvea Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    It's coming up to nearly a year of intermittent fasting for me, so I will get the HBA1c checked, and the weight, for an end of June/ beginning of July reckoning. (Although I am not so hopeful on either of those scores! My HBA1c and insulin resistance seems to be mighty resistant! Stuck in the 40-44 range, mainly at the latter. But we shall see.)

    I have no good scales anymore since moving countries six months ago, but, I do measure my waist regularly, especially if I see some change there. I am your classic rectangular, no big hip-waist-ratio prone-to-BG-dysregulation gal, so it's pretty easy to see if there is any change. And all in the cause of testing liver/pancreas/organ bodily fat and HBA1c/BG regulation. (And hopefully increasing insulin sensitivity.) And recently, I noticed a smaller waist.

    So, it seems, after nearly a year of IFing, I have got my waist back to 81cm, the same measurement I got it to after VLCDing a year and a half ago. (Bounced back to 85cm after a few months of not enough low-carbing, because I didn't really understand low carbing at that stage.)

    But this time, I don't have to carry around a cushion - so that IS interesting in my diabetes book. (Meaning, I don't seem to have lost butt-fat, this time, which in my case is a good thing.)

    And I am not lean the way I was after the VLCD. Which is OK with me - it's the fat on my organs I am concerned about. (Operating on a Fung/Newcastle Uni combo theory of diabetes control here.) I would LOVE to be able to get a liver and pancreas image/scan, and may get serious about forking out the dough for that one day. But in the meantime, it's the tape measure (which probably does much the same thing for many folk like me - I'm not a thin on the outside fat on the inside person), and our old stand-by - the blood test results, that can help tell the fat-on-the-organs tale.

    The conclusion I am taking from this is IFing isn't as dramatic for me as a VLCD/LCD, but way more handable and I can sustain it longterm MUCH better. (Low carbing is base line, IMHO.)

    Lately, I have been super busy and enduring long periods of exhaustion (work! and moving house). So, I have not been able to keep up my low-carb-flour baking. (I do eat small servings of low-carb root veg with the odd sweet potato from time to time.) So just eating mainly much easier-and-shorter-time-to-prepare meat/fish/poultry-with-a-big-salad dishes. Ditto with the packed lunches to work. Lots of cream, nuts to less than a handful a day, regular blueberries and other very low-carb fruit (such as the odd tamarillo). Mustard and sauerkraut with cold cuts. Tiny breakfasts of one home-made meat patty, some berries and cream/yoghurt.

    So - way less nuts in powdered/baking grain-flour-substitute form. Sigh.

    Way less regular fruit. (Maybe a couple of apples, a banana, a mandarin - a month?) Sigh. (I have been drinking more Apple Cider Vinegar instead of eating apples. Not nearly as pleasant, but probably better for an Impaired Glucose Tolerance (IGT), gallstone-prone person like me. Sigh.)

    I wish I wasn't passing on this morsel of eating-wisdom to fellow BG dysregulated, prone-to-belly-fat folk. I read it in a Paleo cookbook what feels like an eternity ago post-diagnosis, that if you are finding it hard to budge body fat - lower the paleo baking (read 'low carb, non grain' baking). Hmm. Seems it was - you know - true! (Ditto on the tropical fruit.) So many sighs.

    But hey - good news - I haven't let up on eating stevia sweetened dark chocolate! There is mercy in this world!
     
  15. debbiedoodles

    debbiedoodles Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Hi AloeSvea and other contributors,
    I have followed this forum from the beginning over the last few days. Thanks for all your great contributions and personal experiences. I will try to chart my experience in the hope I can benefit from some of your wisdom. You all seem so knowledgeable! I am trying to get my head round it all but it is more complicated than you think isn't it? I am a type2 having had diabetes for 12 years. I managed with diet for about 4 years then metformin 2x 500mg twice a day. I am 178lbs and only 5ft 1" aged 52 female. My waist is 44" I have had a constant struggle with weight issues since being asthmatic and diabetic. I have also had other health issues, high bp, acid reflux, gout, IBS, asthma, low immune system, womb cancer, muscle weakness. I have a current Hba 8.6 which for many years was around 7, my DN wanted to increase my meds in March but I have persuaded her to let me try to lower BG with low Carb diet and by monitoring my bloods. This has not proved as easy as I thought. I could weep when I see people saying how well they are doing with weight loss and bg' son Lchf and am frustrated that I don't seem to be able to achieve the same. I am wondering where I am going wrong? I initially lost a stone in January on ordinary diet, not low carb but bg too high, since then despite all low carbing efforts I've not lost a single thing!

    Firstly, I need to make clear that I was always slim until the age of 30 and then after many bouts of asthma needing steroid treatment my weight got out of control. I have tried unsuccessfully to lose and maintain weight like many, and note that as per Jason Fung it may have been the wrong approach being diabetic/insulin resistant. Having decided low carb/paleo the way. I ran out and bought almond flour, coconut flour, avocados, flax seed loads of nuts, low fat cheese etc. Then read I should be having high fat. So I bought high fat cheese and double cream, I had a lovely time baking scones and breads with almond flour - to discover it was 185 cals a tiny slice! My weight didn't alter and neither did my bg. I was advised to cut down on fats as I would not lose weight eating cheese and cream. Hmmm.. I guess it made sense. Then I ate more protein as I was hungry, I still lost no weight. I am now trying fasting. Yesterday I had 10 king prawns with mixed salad and a sauce of Creme fresh, tomato purée and low cal salad cream, plus coleslaw. A sugar free, fat free yoghurt, at 2pm (first meal) then at 7pm, few cashews, 8oz steak, mushrooms, tomatoes, Creme fresh and mustard sauce. Home made sugar free (xylitol) lemon ice cream. I would normally have had more veg but hadn't shopped. My bg has come down from average 8.5 - 9 over the weeks and now My bg is fluctuating between 7 and 7.5 (yesterday and this morning) not eating til this aft now. Thoughts, tips and advice great fully awaited.
    Thanks
     
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  16. AloeSvea

    AloeSvea Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Hi @debbiedoodles. I feel for you! There is another T2 diabetic I read on this forum who got T2D after steroid treatment, and talks about this. I'll message you when I come across him again (I've forgotten which avatar it is) so you can follow him or message him too?

    My suggestion to you is to try and find out everything you can about steroids and blood glucose dysregulation - as that is your body's particular story? Then you can find a way for a treatment using a way of eating and activity that can work better for you in particular. Especially in regards to the weight/fat on the organs factor?

    The blood glucose coming down with paleo/lchf is great!

    Yes, Dr Fung would say fast, and fast a bit more. And then change the way you fast. :). As a way to beat the fat storage issue. Keep telling us how it works for you for sure!
     
    #196 AloeSvea, Jun 11, 2016 at 12:23 AM
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 11, 2016
  17. debbiedoodles

    debbiedoodles Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Hi
    Well after only one day fast I lost 2 lbs but then stayed same for 2 days after despite fasting, I will keep at it but I'm off to a BBQ and going to have some alcohol so prob eat bit more today. I am going to book Hba next week and get thyroid checked again. I'm a bit concerned as have been having burning and tingling sensations in hands and feet over last week And yesterday skin it hey all over, Plus terrible trouble sleeping. I'm just wide awake! Managed to get to sleep almost 3 am but woke at 5.30!!! My fasting bg 7.5 this morn, not been lower than this in morn yet. hmmm based on what you say may try 5-2 fast instead of daily and see what happens then.
    Cheers Debbie
     
  18. KevinPotts

    KevinPotts Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    This next week I'm down to my 3,2,1, weeks on my initial GP triggered LCHF diet and these next three weeks I have to do a 3 or 4 days fast...xxxxhell...ill have a go but don't be surprised if I bail:).


    Diagnosed 13/4/16: T2, no meds, HbA1c 53, FBG 12.6, Trigs 3.6, HDL .75, LDL 4.0, BP 169/95, 13st 8lbs, waist 34" (2012 - 17st 7lbs, w 42").

    6/6/16: FBG AV 4.6, Trigs 1.5, HDL 2.0, LDL 3.0, BP 112/68, BPM 66, 11st 11lbs, waist 30".

    Regime: 20g LCHF, run 1 mile daily, weekly fasting.
     
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  19. debbiedoodles

    debbiedoodles Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    How's the fasting going Kevin?
     
  20. KevinPotts

    KevinPotts Type 2 · Well-Known Member

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    Going great thanks...to be honest I'm surprised:)

    The first day I felt the odd hunger pain, day two a bit less and now into day 3 at 64 hours, I feel fully adapted... It really must be the affect of ketone adaptation on LCHF:)

    My FBG was 4.4 this morning at 64 hours:)


    Diagnosed 13/4/16: T2, no meds, HbA1c 53, FBG 12.6, Trigs 3.6, HDL .75, LDL 4.0, BP 169/95, 13st 8lbs, waist 34" (2012 - 17st 7lbs, w 42").

    15/6/16: FBG AV 4.6, Trigs 1.5, HDL 2.0, LDL 3.0, BP 112/68, BPM 66, 11st 5lbs, waist 30", PWV 7.0. Lifelong migraines and hay fever gone.

    Regime: 20g LCHF, run 1 mile daily, weekly fasting.
     
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