Is Diabetes a Progressive Disease?

I can only discuss type 1.
To my knowledge, type 1 diabetes is only "progressive" as you go through the honeymoon phase.
Once all the Islets of Langerhan have been destroyed and your body is no longer producing insulin, I cannot see how you can progress any further.
Complications from diabetes may evolve beyond that but I do not consider these to be part of diabetes.

Yes and no.
Probably covered in a number of threads.

NewTD2 said:

Please join the discussion...

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Yes... Provided nothing is done to prevent it from progressing. Far as I know, a change in lifestyle and diet to accomodate our body's inability to process carbs should call deterioration of said body to a halt. Or slow it down considerably, at least. So it's a progressive disease when not treated properly. Otherwise, there's hope.

If you define ‘progress’ as evolution or development, then yes my Diabetes has evolved....... but for the better!

Are you asking about symptoms, side effects or underlying causes?

Underlying causes can sometimes be reversed if caught in time (according to Professor Roy Taylor for one).

The pancreas can be damaged progressively if the battle against insulin resistance is causing it to fail. In this case T2 diabetes can be considered progressive.

If your pancreas is being/has been damaged then you can often, with careful management, maintain normal BG levels which can mean that the side effects are not progressive; that is, things like nerve and vision damage, poor healing and ulceration.

So, depending on what you are asking, the answer is "it depends".

Would have thought the answer was rather obvious ... it can be, doesn't mean you let it

I think many of those who think they have beaten or stopped their diabetes type 2 forever are living in la-la land.

We cannot give a blanket statement about anything with type 2 diabetes, we are all different, and I suspect there are several sorts of type 2 as well.

I think most of us can slow down progression through diet and exercise. I think, for some, they can halt their type 2 completely. But nothing is cast in stone, and research results are relatively new, so I intend to continue to be vigilant and err on the side of caution by thinking that it MAY be progressive, but I can do my darndest to slow it down.

I cannot comment on type 1 as I know little about it.

I personally think my remission of diabetes just means that I have managed to grab a Tiger by the tail and if I let go or relax my grip too much then it's going to bite me.

Yes, life itself is progressive, parts wear out etc, but we can slow down that progression and maybe halt it.

Possibly. Despite eating 40gms of carb per day, my ability to keep my BG in "normal" range deteriorated. I'm also finding that even one slice of Hovis low carb bread can make my BG spike and the effect will last for 4 hours. During the week I am presently only eating vegetables, then at the weekend I splash out a bit with eggs on Saturday, bacon on Sunday and whatever meat my wife likes in the evenings. This has had the desired effect and my BG stays in the 5-7 range.

Not sure I could keep that up for ever and my concern is that I will require additional meds if I eat meat on a regular basis. Any form of obvious carb seems to be a complete no no!

If T2D is due to your pancreas "wearing out" through old age, as mine probably is, that is likely to be progressive. As to how quickly it progresses, who knows, all you can do is control your BG to avoid complications.

There are certainly regressive components - in that eating low carb can remove many inches from the waistline, restore energy and a willingness to do housework not seen for decades, being out of the house more often, taking up new interests.
I don't know if my diabetes is doing anything or going anywhere - but on the whole, I don't really care.
The treatment handed out at diagnosis, a couple of tablets a day, reduced my ability to do anything, and my mental state was really wretched, so getting back from that was such a relief, so I now go along with the same thoughts as Epicurus - whilst we are alive let us live.

DavidGrahamJones said:

Possibly. Despite eating 40gms of carb per day, my ability to keep my BG in "normal" range deteriorated. I'm also finding that even one slice of Hovis low carb bread can make my BG spike and the effect will last for 4 hours. During the week I am presently only eating vegetables, then at the weekend I splash out a bit with eggs on Saturday, bacon on Sunday and whatever meat my wife likes in the evenings. This has had the desired effect and my BG stays in the 5-7 range.

Not sure I could keep that up for ever and my concern is that I will require additional meds if I eat meat on a regular basis. Any form of obvious carb seems to be a complete no no!

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Just a very quick response off topic because I am finding it impossible to let it stand uncommented on - meat is no way a carb! (Vegetables are.) Eggs are not a carb either. Again - zero carbs. And I would be very very very surprised if meat or eggs spike your BG, with a carb count of zero percent. (Unless some horrible person marinated the meat in sugar! Which happens. Too often.)

How does meat make you require additional meds? The only thing against it that can be said is that it contains saturated fat. The only thing. And the whole saturated fat debate about being bad is a loooooonnnnggg and horrible story. Even WHO can only say they can't rule out meat being bad for folk, not that it is bad. Charitable organisations funded by the food industry - they still talk about fat clogging arteries and causing CVDs.

Another quick three pointer: Follow the money in the debate, and follow your blood glucose meter! And I recommend a fabulous book and associated youtube presentations: The Big Fat Surprise: Why Butter, Meat & Cheese Belong in a Healthy Diet, by Nina Teicholz. (Caveats on dairy. Many are not dairy tolerant.)

Anyway. About diabetes being progressive - I sure hope not! Many of us lot in here are the test cases for it not being? I sure hope so!

AloeSvea said:

And I would be very very very surprised if meat or eggs spike your BG, with a carb count of zero percent.

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Protein is digested to glucose. So meat and eggs can elevate BG.

It is well documented that T2D is chronic and progressive for 98.4% of T2D in this 7 yr long study...
http://www.diabetes.org/research-an...ss-to-research/type-2-diabetes-remission.html

Overall, 1.60 percent of the entire group (4.6 percent of those who had been diagnosed for less than 2 years) had some sort of remission.

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AloeSvea said:

meat is no way a carb!

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I didn't say that! What I can say from personal experience is that after 3 to 4 years of no bread/rice/potato/past which meant I was consuming less than 40gms carb a day, confirmed by weighing everything I ate and put it into Weight By Date software to get the amount of carb along with calories, cholesterol, fat etc, my BG started to go all over the place, backed up by an HbA1c of 68 mmol/mol.

AloeSvea said:

I would be very very very surprised if meat or eggs spike your BG, with a carb count of zero percent.

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It isn't just carb that converts to glucose. This link will make interesting reading http://journal.diabetes.org/diabetesspectrum/00v13n3/pg132.htm

Again, my personal experience of a very low calorie diet, eating veg only backs that up. Eating no meat has resulted in a lovely straight line (ish) on my FreeStyle Libre between 5 and 7 and no dawn phenomenon. As soon as I re-introduce protein, and fat in the form of yogurt mainly my BG climbs and the dawn phenomenon is much more evident.

AloeSvea said:

the whole saturated fat debate about being bad is a loooooonnnnggg and horrible story. Even WHO can only say they can't rule out meat being bad for folk, not that it is bad. Charitable organisations funded by the food industry - they still talk about fat clogging arteries and causing CVDs.

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I'm well read on the whole fat/cholesterol story, not necessarily remembering everything. Another thing I can say about my personal experience, when I ate meat and yogurt my total cholesterol was 5.7, after 3 months of a very low calorie diet with considerably less meat and no yogurt it was 4. I'm not suggesting that's good, just what it was. I suffered statins for 17 years before giving them up, at least a total cholesterol of 4 means my GP and DN don't give me any grief at all. In fairness they didn't say that much when it was 5.7 because they knew I was changing things in my diet.

AloeSvea said:

Follow the money in the debate, and follow your blood glucose meter! And I recommend a fabulous book and associated youtube presentations

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The FreeStyle Libre has been a boon, it's like an electronic tag, it will soon tell me when I'm doing something wrong,so it keeps me on the straight and narrow. I am familiar with the Youtube videos and the book.

AloeSvea said:

Anyway. About diabetes being progressive - I sure hope not! Many of us lot in here are the test cases for it not being? I sure hope so!

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I hope not, which is why I suggest possibly. I've had three c-peptide tests in 2 years which show my pancreas is producing an amount of insulin in the normal range. I have also had my insulin resistance measured 3 times in 2 years and that gives a slightly interesting result. It has gone down and then up again, even higher than before. However, from what I've recently started to read, beta cell dysfunction is more of a problem, the suggestion being that beta cell mass in a large percentage of diabetics is less than it should be, the remaining beta cells possibly making up for the shortfall, but for how long. I'm only just reading this and suggest googling "type II beta cell dysfunction", I may not be 100% correct and would welcome comments from someone with a greater understanding.

rom35 said:

Protein is digested to glucose. So meat and eggs can elevate BG.

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Have you tested yourself with a meter after eating meat and eggs? (Only!) And you have raised blood glucose levels? Have you been documenting this? Really?

If you have, and you have raised BG from them, I really am surprised. And I really want to know!

Protein is not digested to glucose, is my understanding - the process is way more complex, and the body uses protein, lots of it, for lots of mechanisms and processes. Excess protein is stored as fat, and will be used to make glucose if you aren't getting enough glucose from food, or, it's not working properly due to type two diabetes your body makes extra glucose when it shouldn't due to bung signaling. (Me included!)

I know a ton of folks who have gotten fantastic stores of body fat from excess carbs (me included!), and yes, even type two diabetes (me included!). I don't know a soul who has wrecked their health from too much protein. Not a one. Not a single one.

AloeSvea said:

Protein is not digested to glucose, is my understanding

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It might be complex, but it happens. Dr Google says so. There's plenty of well documented empirical evidence.

AloeSvea said:

Yoghurt is moderately high in carbs though!

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4gms per 100gms - Fage Total 0%, so not so bad.

AloeSvea said:

I don't know a soul who has wrecked their health from too much protein. Not a one. Not a single one.

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So long as you have a healthy liver and kidneys.

When you're consuming a normal amount of protein, you excrete the nitrogen—no harm. But when you eat a ton of the stuff, your kidneys have to go into overdrive to get rid of all the extra nitrogen. Source Cassie Bjork, RD, LD of Healthy Simple Life.