Is it just me

[leahkian]

Is it just me or is this government trying to bury the NHS, after the budget no pay increase for our NHS which will lead to staff leaving there jobs as they cannot afford to put food on the table. Hospitals are full and understaffed is this how these people should be treated, some people cannot be moved as they have no place to go. I do not like MP'S but thought Mrs May being a diabetic that she might do something to help the NHS and diabetics with being one herself but no, it is a case of we have our private health insurance so the rest of you can get on with it. Mrs May, Mr Hammond and Mr Hunt are putting lives at risk everyday with their tactless approach and to see them laughing on Wed made my blood boil. More people are using foodbanks than ever before, there are more people suffering with mental health issues and as we know diabetics are prone to mental health problems. So if you put that together that means diabetic will be using food banks even if they have a job and the stress may lead to mental health issues. A few years ago i had to go for a medical and needed 15 points to get my benefit i got 0 points and had to appeal. Welfare Rights came to my appeal to represent me. I walked in where a doctor and a judge were seated at the time, before anything was said the doctor asked me why was i there i said i got no points. He then said you are a type one diabetic with hard to control, you are at end stage 5 renal failure and on a transplant list, have had eye problems, nerve problems and a long history of mental health problems. The Welfare Rights asked the doctor did he want to know under which section i was appealing under, the doctor said no and told me that he would recommend that they not contact me for 3 years and blasted ATOS who had given me no points. The Government sacked ATOS as most people were winning there appeals and it was costing more than they were paying out in the first place, I could not believe when i heard that ATOS was hired to do assesments on PIP. Now after Tories complete lack of empathy with any person with a disability is shocking, i fear for most of us as we are going to have to make sacrifices that will lead many of us at the mercy of the NHS. People who have worked all there lives having to make the choice of food or heating is that what they deserve. I know this is a strong statement but this government is leading people to an early grave not just the old, mental health issues, people with a disability but people who may take there own lives as they cannot see a way out and children who are our future who are living in poverty in one of the supposed top countries to live in. I don't no if a new party could change things but it could not make it any worse and while the PM sits down for her xmas dinner there will be doctors and nurses who are saving peoples lives and having to work xmas day to stay on the breadline. I do not see a happy ending to this story as things have to change at the top before anyone will see any benefits. Do not think that i think the NHS need a pay rise the police, firefighters, the forces and teacher all need a pay rise. It is your choice if you agree or not but i would like someone to tell me how we are going to get out of this mess.

 

[Ian_Laye]

Whilst I respect the nhs staff for what they do, I don't see why they or any other public sector workers should be given a pay rise when the rest of us who pay the taxes that would fund their pay rise have not had a pay increase. We all do important jobs that one way or another are important to the country. The private sector workers would in effect have a pay cut to fund a public sector pay rise, we already subsidise their generous pension schemes!

 

[Bluetit1802]

Whilst I respect the nhs staff for what they do, I don't see why they or any other public sector workers should be given a pay rise when the rest of us who pay the taxes that would fund their pay rise have not had a pay increase. We all do important jobs that one way or another are important to the country. The private sector workers would in effect have a pay cut to fund a public sector pay rise, we already subsidise their generous pension schemes!

I was a Public Civil Servant for above 30 years in the Social Security sector, under massive pressure. I have been retired now for many years. We were always the forgotten ones the general public and especially the media put at the bottom of the pile beneath the NHS staff, the police, teachers, and the other services. Without us not one unemployed person, or sick person, or single parent, or child, or disabled person, or pensioner would have received any benefits at all. Is that any less important?

When pay rise negotiations came around we invariably received less of a percentage rise than comparable jobs outside the public sector on the basis that our pension scheme was non-contributory in part. Note the words "in part". In other words, our pay rises were kept low to claw back/compensate from the so-called free pensions. Swings and roundabouts, give in one hand, remove from the other. The general public do not subsidise as much as you suggest. Oh ... and my pension is far from generous!

 

[Daibell]

Hi. I need to avoid getting into politics on the forum but a few points. There are many out there who are on very low income or inadequate benefits many thru no fault of their own but some who need to manage themselves better perhaps have more support. In all of the NHS funding decisions it is essential to know where any additional funding will come from as it has to come from more taxes or improved efficiency - it doesn't come out of thin air. Some areas of the NHS are very inefficient. I could say more but best left off the forum. A charge of perhaps £25 to see the GP with those on benefits being seen free would have an enormous effect in releasing NHS funds - how about that for consideration?

 

[AlexMagd]

Whilst I respect the nhs staff for what they do, I don't see why they or any other public sector workers should be given a pay rise when the rest of us who pay the taxes that would fund their pay rise have not had a pay increase. We all do important jobs that one way or another are important to the country. The private sector workers would in effect have a pay cut to fund a public sector pay rise, we already subsidise their generous pension schemes!

This is a very old-fashioned view. The days of wealthy civil servants with gold-plated pensions is long gone, if it ever existed. People still have this idea of the public sector from the 1970s but the reality is very, very different - and I say this as a former civil servant myself. Public sector workers have been on a pay freeze for something like five years, which amounts to a pay cut given inflation. A lot of NHS staff work there knowing they could get a lot more money in private practice but stay anyway.

I don't know about you, but a functioning NHS service is pretty important to me. That safety net is vital and I - and I'm sure most people - would happily pay more tax to pay for it. Let's take that £3 billion we're spending on Brexit and use it to double the amount of money they're proposing for the NHS increase in the next budget. Let's spend less on an ever-more-pointless defence budget and put it into looking after people. The alternative is unthinkable - just today I saw a story about a man who died because he was unable to raise enough money to buy his insulin. His GoFundMe was $50 short of the target.

 

[Boo1979]

I think charging to see a GP would be madness although Im not against say a system where there are consequences for failure to attend appointments. Charging people before they can see a doctor might well reduce the amount of times the “worried well” visit their GP, but would also decrease rates of illness detection, & cause many to delay seeing a doctor until things were really bad, thus delaying treatment and compromising survival rates
Many people who are not entitled to benefits simply do not have a spare £25 to spend on anything, many poorer parents would spend any spare cash on their kids than on a trip to the doctor yes there are some who will spend money on fags or booze but that is the minority of peopel in difficult financial circumstances. Then there is the large group of often elderly people with arguably more medical need who wont claim benefits in the first place - their oft reported dilema of “eat or heat” could simply become “ eat, heat or doctor?”
Making it harder to see a GP, would also push more people to go to A&E theerefore clogging up that service or are you thinking that every A&E department should have a fee collector on the door to stop people coming in unless they happen to have £25 on them?

 

[Daibell]

I think charging to see a GP would be madness although Im not against say a system where there are consequences for failure to attend appointments. Charging people before they can see a doctor might well reduce the amount of times the “worried well” visit their GP, but would also decrease rates of illness detection, & cause many to delay seeing a doctor until things were really bad, thus delaying treatment and compromising survival rates
Many people who are not entitled to benefits simply do not have a spare £25 to spend on anything, many poorer parents would spend any spare cash on their kids than on a trip to the doctor yes there are some who will spend money on fags or booze but that is the minority of peopel in difficult financial circumstances. Then there is the large group of often elderly people with arguably more medical need who wont claim benefits in the first place - their oft reported dilema of “eat or heat” could simply become “ eat, heat or doctor?”
Making it harder to see a GP, would also push more people to go to A&E theerefore clogging up that service or are you thinking that every A&E department should have a fee collector on the door to stop people coming in unless they happen to have £25 on them?

Well, the current 'free at the point of use' doesn't work so let's try something different. It's well known that if you offer anything for free people will abuse it. Whilst we deny charging, nothing will improve and more people will be left untreated in a bankrupt service.

 

[donnellysdogs]

This is a very old-fashioned view. The days of wealthy civil servants with gold-plated pensions is long gone, if it ever existed. People still have this idea of the public sector from the 1970s but the reality is very, very different - and I say this as a former civil servant myself. Public sector workers have been on a pay freeze for something like five years, which amounts to a pay cut given inflation. A lot of NHS staff work there knowing they could get a lot more money in private practice but stay anyway.

I don't know about you, but a functioning NHS service is pretty important to me. That safety net is vital and I - and I'm sure most people - would happily pay more tax to pay for it. Let's take that £3 billion we're spending on Brexit and use it to double the amount of money they're proposing for the NHS increase in the next budget. Let's spend less on an ever-more-pointless defence budget and put it into looking after people. The alternative is unthinkable - just today I saw a story about a man who died because he was unable to raise enough money to buy his insulin. His GoFundMe was $50 short of the target.

Dont all govt depts and nhs, councils etc all still have full salary final pensions?
Not really the same for those that work in private companies.. private companies have also seen pay drops, 0 hour contracts as well.

I still think the qty of subdivisions of cqc, healthwatch etc is taking valuable money away froom nhs... as are a top heavy management level... the nhs is hugely split into CCGs and panels for funding requests.. are these really necessary ?

 

[Ian_Laye]

This is a very old-fashioned view. The days of wealthy civil servants with gold-plated pensions is long gone, if it ever existed. People still have this idea of the public sector from the 1970s but the reality is very, very different - and I say this as a former civil servant myself. Public sector workers have been on a pay freeze for something like five years, which amounts to a pay cut given inflation. A lot of NHS staff work there knowing they could get a lot more money in private practice but stay anyway.

I don't know about you, but a functioning NHS service is pretty important to me. That safety net is vital and I - and I'm sure most people - would happily pay more tax to pay for it. Let's take that £3 billion we're spending on Brexit and use it to double the amount of money they're proposing for the NHS increase in the next budget. Let's spend less on an ever-more-pointless defence budget and put it into looking after people. The alternative is unthinkable - just today I saw a story about a man who died because he was unable to raise enough money to buy his insulin. His GoFundMe was $50 short of the target.

I still find it hard to accept why public sector workers think they are a special case, most private sector workers have not had a pay rise and in some cases they have had pay cuts. And even if what you say about the public sector pensions not being gold plated is true, they are still subsidised by the tax payer. I agree with you that more money needs to be spent on NHS but spending it on a pay rise won't improve the service.

 

[Ian_Laye]

Well, the current 'free at the point of use' doesn't work so let's try something different. It's well known that if you offer anything for free people will abuse it. Whilst we deny charging, nothing will improve and more people will be left untreated in a bankrupt service.

We should never charge to see a GP, look at what has happened to dental health / care in this country since it stopped being free at point of use. Good dental treatment is now the preserve of the rich.

 

[Boo1979]

I still find it hard to accept why public sector workers think they are a special case, most private sector workers have not had a pay rise and in some cases they have had pay cuts. And even if what you say about the public sector pensions not being gold plated is true, they are still subsidised by the tax payer. I agree with you that more money needs to be spent on NHS but spending it on a pay rise won't improve the service.

Many frontline nhs workers have had actual pay cuts alongside the effective pay cut resulting from the lack of any pay rise and salaries therefore falling behind inflation. Re organisations, Re-banding of posts and down banding of salries is currently common across many nhs trusts as they try to balance the books and comply with central govenment directives to make millions of pounds of cuts year on year ( euphamistically called CIP, or cost improvement programme,savings. I retired from the nhs several years ago and recently met an ex colleague who told me they were now earning less than they did when first qualified over 5 years ago due to wholesale downbanding of posts
Before I left the nhs, a common comment from senior managers was that when a body is forced to make 5-10% savings year on year it ultimately has to start eating itself.

 

[Ian_Laye]

Many frontline nhs workers have had actual pay cuts alongside the effective pay cut resulting from the lack of any pay rise and salaries therefore falling behind inflation. Re organisations, Re-banding of posts and down banding of salries is currently common across many nhs trusts as they try to balance the books and comply with central govenment directives to make millions of pounds of cuts year on year ( euphamistically called CIP, or cost improvement programme,savings. I retired from the nhs several years ago and recently met an ex colleague who told me they were now earning less than they did when first qualified over 5 years ago due to wholesale downbanding of posts
Before I left the nhs, a common comment from senior managers was that when a body is forced to make 5-10% savings year on year it ultimately has to start eating itself.

What makes you think the public sector are worse off than the private sector worker who doesn't get annual incremental rises and doesn't have his pension subsidised.

 

[Boo1979]

What makes you think the public sector are worse off than the private sector worker who doesn't get annual incremental rises and doesn't have his pension subsidised.

I dont think they are any worse off but I know they are no better off

 

[Ian_Laye]

I dont think they are any worse off but I know they are no better off[/QUO

So why then do you think the rest of us should have an effective pay cut to subsidise them even more by giving them a pay rise?

 

[Boo1979]

If you read what I have written, its very clear that you are the only person talking about pay rises

 

[archersuz]

A charge of perhaps £25 to see the GP with those on benefits being seen free would have an enormous effect in releasing NHS funds - how about that for consideration?

I have had at least 4 GP appointments since being diagnosed (10 weeks ago), with diabetes related issues. Each appointment meant a prescription. I am not on benefits but I certainly couldn't have afforded to pay £100 for those appointments plus prescription charges.

 

[Daphne917]

Dont all govt depts and nhs, councils etc all still have full salary final pensions ?

Not any more - the government introduced a law a few years ago that gave them the ability to change the pension how and when they felt like it and they did! In addition when the minimum wage was introduced a large number of civil servants had an automatic pay rise because, up until that point, their pay had been below it. My pension won’t be that great either even though I have been a civil servant for 21 years.

 

[Daphne917]

I still find it hard to accept why public sector workers think they are a special case, most private sector workers have not had a pay rise and in some cases they have had pay cuts. And even if what you say about the public sector pensions not being gold plated is true, they are still subsidised by the tax payer. I agree with you that more money needs to be spent on NHS but spending it on a pay rise won't improve the service.

So have civil servants - we have not had a pay increase in 6 years since the government decided that we could help to claw back the money lost through the bank’s and their incompetence. In reality if we were doing it for the money there would be no public servants as our industry counterparts earn quite a bit more. However we accepted lower wages in lieu of a better pension which, unfortunately, along with our other T&Cs have been slowly but surely eroding for example in what other organisation would you get promoted and lose 2 days holiday and only get a 10% increase opposed to someone coming in from industry being able to negotiate their own starting pay? There is a perception that the civil service/ public sector are paid well and have gold plated pensions - not sure where it came from but I wish it was true!

 

[Boo1979]

https://www.theguardian.com/society...s-nhs-social-care-cash?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other
Nuff said!

 

[leahkian]

I like to see the different points of view that you all have made but here is something that i do not understand. In april 2015 i had a SPK transplant which went well but also showed how much damage the diabetes had caused. Now after my transplant i was told that i would have to pay for my anti-rejection drugs as they are not classed as life saving drugs, so if i could not afford the drugs then my transplant would have been for nothing. As it is my children live with me and i get them free for now. I know the NHS needs more money and a 1p tax rise which could go to the NHS would be a start but we also need nursing homes for older people. The opt out policy i agree with but then more beds, nurses, consultants and other health people would be needed but if there are no beds or not enough staff then organs will be wasted. When i was on the transplant ward most night there would be 1 nurses and 2 HCA, now most people have had transplants or are very ill and need constant care. If a organ was found through the night then these 3 staff were suppose to cope, the day before my transplant i needed a ECG but there was not enough staff so i walked up myself and took the results back. I am not saying that all public sector workers do not deserve a pay rise but Mrs May said there was no money tree until her job was on the line and she found a billion pound to keep herself in a job.