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Is it prediabetes?

Discussion in 'Prediabetes' started by Citroenut, Feb 7, 2017.

  1. Citroenut

    Citroenut · Member

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    Hi

    I am 35 years old male , 178 cm and 79 kg. As long as I remember my fasting blood sugar has always been a little bit high (ca 5.5 or so) but as long as it has been in the normal range I have not thought about it. Last time I got my blood controlled the blood sugar was 5.7 and then I thought I should do some additional tests.
    I did the new blood sugar test and the 3 month average test.
    Blood sugar - 5.4
    Three month average-4,7%
    Looked fine but I was not satisfied. I did the OGTT test and I also got my insulin levels checked.
    Results:
    Fasting: blood sugar 5,4. Insulin 10 ( range 3-25)
    1 hour after: bood sugar 8,1 , insulin 50 ( range 3-25)
    2 hours after: blood sugar 6,7 , insulin 33 ( range 3-25)

    They said that my glucose tolerance is ok. What do you think about those results? Is it normal to people without diabetes ever have a 8.1 blood sugar and what about the insulin level that is way out of the range. Am I heading to the diabetes?
     
  2. Bluetit1802

    Bluetit1802 Type 2 (in remission!) · Guru

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    I would say those results are pretty good and nowhere near diabetic range, nor the pre-diabetic range.
    Our insulin production will always increase after consuming sugar/carbs as it is needed to cope with these things, and a drink of pure glucose gives us a very big hit.

    http://www.diabetes.co.uk/oral-glucose-tolerance-test.html

    What should the OGTT results be?
    People without diabetes
    • Fasting value (before test): under 6 mmol/L
    • At 2 hours: under 7.8 mmol/L
    People with impaired glucose tolerance (IGT)
    • Fasting value (before test): 6.0 to 7.0 mmol/L
    • At 2 hours: 7.9 to 11.0 mmol/L
    Diabetic levels
    • Fasting value (before test): over 7.0 mmol/L
    • At 2 hours: over 11.0 mmol/L

    Why were you not satisfied with an HbA1c of 4.7% and a BS of 5.4?
     
  3. Freema

    Freema Type 2 · Expert

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    welcome here Citroenut :)

    well even when having normal blood glucose levels , there is no doubt that changing ones food style to a style without the rafined carbs or with a very low level of them is a much healthier choice also for non diabetic persons... so if you want to be more healthy and fit then it is always a good idea for a rather healthy person to do some sports or walks and excercises and eat in a very healthy style...
    then one in average has a better chance of growing old in an enjoyable way and get the most out of ones life...

    so good luck with you caring about your health...there are a few people that do consider the range set for pre-diabetes too high, which would in their point of view mean that much more people fall in the prediabetic range..

    we are not allowed to point at any diagnosis in here and will of cause allways point at you going to you own GP to get your answers of your worries in any health matter , but of cause you your self can seek out what in going on worldwide of science and what different experts do think of the diabetic set levels for pre-diabetes and diabetes of all the kinds...
     
  4. Citroenut

    Citroenut · Member

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    According to this article I am prediabetic:

    Why Doctors Miss the Initial Warning Sign of Insulin Resistance

    Doctors have been trained to measure a person’s fasting blood sugar, or the glucose levels present in your blood, at least eight hours after your last meal. Most don’t express concern until results show blood sugar levels reaching 110 mg/dl. That’s when they start “watching it.” Then, once your blood sugar reaches 126 mg/dl, your doctor will diagnose you with diabetes and put you on medication.

    The important thing to note is that blood sugar is the last thing to increase…so for many people, a fasting glucose test detects diabetes too late. Long before your blood sugar rises, your insulin spikes. High insulin levels are the first sign that can precede type 2 diabetes by decades, Damage begins with even slight changes in insulin and blood sugar.

    A two-hour glucose tolerance test can help detect high insulin levels. This test measures not only glucose but also insulin levels, yet doctors rarely order it. Instead, they usually don’t express concern until blood sugar is over 110 or worse, over 126, which is diabetes.

    Many of my patients have normal blood sugar levels but very high insulin levels and other signs of pre-diabetes, yet when they come to see me they have not been diagnosed with pre-diabetes.

    Even when they have a blood sugar level over 100 mg/dl and a two-hour glucose tolerance test result of over 140 mg/dl, 90 percent of patients who display these conditions have not been diagnosed. That’s because doctors don’t measure insulin.

    Think about this. Insulin resistance contributes to most chronic disease in America, a country with world-renowned health care, yet 90 percent of people who have this condition have not been diagnosed. One test could change all that.

    I recommend early testing for everyone:

    • Over age 50
    • With a family history of type 2 diabetes
    • With central abdominal weight gain or abnormal cholesterol
    • With any risk of insulin resistance (even children)
    Ask your doctor for a 2-Hour Insulin Glucose Challenge Test. This should be done when fasting, with blood sugar and insulin levels checked at fasting, then again at one- and two-hour intervals.

    Your blood sugar levels should be less than 80 mg/dl fasting and never rise above 110 or 120 mg/dl after one and two hour checks. Your insulin should be less than 5 mg/dl fasting and should never rise above 30 mg/dl after one and two hour checks.
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
  5. Alison Campbell

    Alison Campbell Prediabetes · Well-Known Member

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  6. Lamont D

    Lamont D Prefer not to say · Master

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    Are you a GP or a doctor?

    Whilst I agree with most of your post, if you do practice medicine, then you should know that it's a c-peptide test that gives insulin levels readings, they are usually done in hospitals and sent to labs and is expensive.

    Hyperinsulinaemia is a precursor to T2, but it's not the only one, there are so many that just to test insulin and not other factors, would be just another test like the hba1c test. It takes into account glucose levels over an average of three months, the medical profession are more comfortable using this method than just a finger prick test.

    Having had hyperinsulinaemia and Hyperglycaemia and high insulin resistance, the doctors I had never had a clue what was wrong, and I was misdiagnosed as T2!

    Glucose tolerance tests are used to give how your body reacts to pure fast acting glucose. It tracks the spike and see high it is after two hours.
    I've had numerous extended OGTT, these give a clearer pattern of what is happening after the two hour stage. These are completed with other blood tests taken every hour and include c-peptide and GAD.

    It is unfortunate and alarming that so many people are getting T2, because of the way our diet has changed in the last fifty years.
    And if caught early, diet is the best treatment.
    That, unfortunately, is not what is happening!
     
  7. dm2-one

    dm2-one Type 2 · Member

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    Here is my though.
    What do you think about those results?
    A: in general look ok. What were your values in the past? If you do not know, then use this as your baseline and retest after three months of good diet and physical activity.

    Is it normal to people without diabetes ever have a 8.1 blood sugar and what about the insulin level that is way out of the range.
    A: your glucose 8.1 is at one hour of the OGTT, within the interval observed in normal people.
    The insulin range for one hour of the OGTT is far greater than 3-30, so your value might be normal for you.

    Am I heading to the diabetes?
    To answer that you need to monitor yourself.
    Choice a: Do a three month intensive liesftyle program, and check if you improve
    Choice b:wait to see if you become worse in three months or whatever time you are willing to wait.

    Even if you use the c-peptide test, you still have those two choices.
     
  8. Citroenut

    Citroenut · Member

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    Hello!

    A little update from me. My latest blood test results are following:
    HbA1C - 4,9%
    Fasting blood sugar - ca 5.8 . I measure it myself.
    Fasting insulin 4,4 mIU/l

    I have lately started eating low carb. Mostly meat, eggs , butter , soar cream etc..
    The positive thing is that my fasting insulin is much lower than before.( 4,4 vs 10 )

    but look what happened to my cholesterol results:

    Total - 6.6 mmol/l
    HDL - 1,6 mmol/l
    LDL - 4,1 mmol/l

    Triglycerides - 0,61 mmol/l

    I took an online calculator to calculate the ratios and it seems there is a bug in those results. It raised the LDL to 4,72 to be correct.

    Your Total Cholesterol of 6.60 is HIGH RISK
    Your LDL of 4.72 is HIGH RISK
    Your HDL of 1.6 is OPTIMAL
    Your Triglyceride level of 0.61 is NORMAL

    RATIOS:
    Your Total Cholesterol/HDL ratio is: 4.13 - (preferably under 5.0, ideally under 3.5) GOOD
    Your HDL/LDL ratio is: 0.339 - (preferably over 0.3, ideally over 0.4) GOOD
    Your triglycerides/HDL ratio is: 0.381 - (preferably under 1.74, ideally under 0.87) IDEAL


    So according to the calculator my cholesterol ratios are good but my total values are not.
    What do you think about those results. I must say that I am addicted to eggs and I eat atleast 10 of them per day. Is it possible that eating so many eggs rises my cholesterol. Last time my cholesterol was somewhere around 5.5 .
    I want to lower my blood sugar to 83 wich dr Bernstein says is a truly normal level but so far my blood sugar stays near the same even eating low carb.
     
  9. Lamont D

    Lamont D Prefer not to say · Master

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    I'm tagging @Bluetit1802 , as she understands the cholesterol levels better than me.

    Some good results there!
     
  10. Bluetit1802

    Bluetit1802 Type 2 (in remission!) · Guru

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    You can work out your correct LDL. The total is the total of the HDL + LDL + 46% of trigs. (in the UK) I am no mathematician, but I make that 4.72. So it seems the calculator is correct. Either there is a misprint somewhere on your results, or maybe it is because LDL is usually estimated rather than measured.

    As for eating eggs, reducing the amount is highly unlikely to affect your cholesterol. That myth was debunked some time ago. Our livers make our cholesterol according to what we need at the time. If we eat some dietary cholesterol, our livers just make less because we need less. However, eating 10 a day may be said by some to be overdoing it a bit!
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  11. Citroenut

    Citroenut · Member

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    I am going to continue to eat low carb and I hope my blood sugar will drop eventually. I try to keep my post prandial blood sugars down but eating protein rich food makes some suprises. For exaple sometimes my 1 hour post prandial blood sugar is exactly the same as before eating but after two hours I got 6.9.
    Prior to low carb I tried intermittent fasting but when I ate a normal dinner the blood sugar skyrocketed. Eventually I started to restrict calories to prevent those spikes but eating this way is not sustainable and eventually leads to malnutrition.
    I have a weak immune system . Every cold eventually ends up in bronchitis lately . I hope that when I could get my blood sugar and insulin down my immune system and overall health would improve.
     
  12. Bluetit1802

    Bluetit1802 Type 2 (in remission!) · Guru

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    Those are excellent numbers. Why do you want to bring them down? They are all in the non-diabetic range. Also, your fasting insulin is superb. It couldn't be any better and together with your test results show you have none or very little insulin resistance..

    As for being higher at 2 hours than 1 hour, this is not unusual. It all depends on the contents of the meal. Some foods release glucose early, others release it later. Fibre and fat get involved.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  13. Citroenut

    Citroenut · Member

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    My fasting insulin is low because I eat low carb. Before going low carb it was 11. I also would not say that fasting blood sugar 5.8 is normal, dr Bernstein says in his book that a true normal blood sugar is 4,6. Unfortunately I do not know what was my blood sugar when I was younger. My blood pressure is also pretty high and erratic. The funny thing is that I am not overweight. I am 178 cm tall and 73 kg at the moment but I know that after going low carb I lost a lot of water weight . So it is probably 75-76 kg when carbing up (which I am probably not going to do ). I think the problem is with my visceral fat because I have a distended belly when I relax my ab muscles. I use to overeat a lot in my twenties . I honestly look like a pregnant woman when I do not flex my abs.
    I need to lose the visceral and abdominal fat. Going low carb has not reduced my fasting blood sugar. I am going to try the blood sugar 800 kcal diet .
     
  14. Bluetit1802

    Bluetit1802 Type 2 (in remission!) · Guru

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    I hope it works for you. Do you know your visceral fat levels? I know they are not necessarily accurate, but body composition scales give you a rough idea.
     
  15. Citroenut

    Citroenut · Member

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    I do not know my levels but subcutanously I have about a 1,25 inch when I pinch near my belly button. That does not seem very high.
     
  16. Citroenut

    Citroenut · Member

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    I decided that 800 calorie diet is too much and started to eat ca 2000 calories a day wich should be under my maintenance . I have upped my carbs a little bit because I was getting signs a scurvy on very low carb diet( little wounds from the scratches did not wanted to heal ). I eat tomatoes and strawberries. The bad thing is that my body can not handle carb very well. For example my post prandial after two tomatoes and 200 grams of strawberries was 8,6!!. It is only ca 20 grams of carb. I read that on low carb diet the body can not handle carb very well. So my question is that how much carb do people here eat per meal?Am I right that the whole point of veggies and fruit is to prevent scurvy?
     
  17. Guzzler

    Guzzler Type 2 · Expert

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    Have you thought you might have Health Anxiety?

    As to scurvy, there are no nutrients of any kind in fruit which are absent in veggies.
     
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  18. Citroenut

    Citroenut · Member

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    Of course I am anxious because I can not understand what is wrong with my health. Probably bad genes but I hope there are some things I can do. I just try to find answers but the information I get all over the net is often so controversial that I do not know what is right and what is wrong anymore. For example:
    1) Everybody says that when you cut carbs, the blood sugar goes down. In my case the blood sugar goes up. For example today my fasting blood sugar was 6.3.
    2) Everybody says that eat lots of fruit and veggies, but how the hell I can eat a lot of them when my postprandials will go silly high?
    3) Jason Fung advocates high fat low carb and low protein. He evens says 50 grams of protein is plenty for average male. What the hell I should eat then? A 250 gram of lean beef is ca 50 grams of protein but it gives only about 250kcal of enery. I need 10X of that. Ok I could eat straight butter but how anyone can get their minerals and vitamins that way. As long as I know fat does not contain very much of them
    4) Dr Bernstein says that true normal fasting blood sugar is 4.6. Has anyone here who has prediabetes managed to get his/her blood sugar down to that level with diet?
    There are examples of people who went zero carb, eating only meat, and their blood sugars are higher than that.
    For example Shawn Baker whose fasting blood sugar is near 7.
    The other long term zerocarber "TheBear" said his blood sugar was near 5.6.
    Also dr Bernstein says that eating a lot of fat and ketogenic diet is silly. He advocates contrary to Jason Fung a high protein diet.
    5) The reason I asked about the scurvy was because zerocarbers say that they do not get scurvy eating only meat. I tried a diet with lots of eggs and occasionally meat but I feel that this way of eating is flirting with scurvy. Imagine when you got an infection and your body needs c vitamine and you do not have any. It does not feel a right way to me.
    On the other hand I feel that all the nutrients - vitamins and minerals - are present in eggs and meat and therefore the only reason to eat veggies and fruit is to prevent scurvy. When it comes to other nutrients then meat and eggs are superior to veggies and fruit.

    6) Fasting. A miracle that is supposed to cure many diseases and is advocated heavily by Jason Fung and many more. To me it seams that when you fast one they then in order to get your calories you have to eat twice the amount the second day. But that means double size portions and that does not look good for blood sugar control. Imagine a postprandials eating a double portion. Same thing with the intermittend fasting. Some people even eat once a day. I can not imagine what are they postprandials eating 3000kcalories in a single meal.
     
    #18 Citroenut, Jun 24, 2018 at 3:22 PM
    Last edited: Jun 24, 2018
  19. Guzzler

    Guzzler Type 2 · Expert

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    And yet your numbers look good. You may have looked at/tried intermittent fasting but did you check up on refeeding? You must remember that there is a lot of information out there because no one size fits all. For those of us with Pre Diabetes and Type 2 Diabetes there is a period after diagnosis when we have to find the right approach for us as individuals. You are non Diabetic, this means that a healthy diet that is minus the junk food we all recognise, lower in carbs than the Standard American Diet and with a variety of plant and animal foods is the right way to go for you. Personally, I would avoid vegetable oils and anything with HFCS in it.
     
  20. Alexandra100

    Alexandra100 Prefer not to say · Well-Known Member

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    Indeed, and I too am impressed by Dr B's arguments and would love to get my bg levels down to what he considers normal. However, if you read his book "Diabetes Solution" carefully you will see that many of his patients are not able to get their bg down to this level despite eating his prescribed low carb diet of 6g carbs at breakfast and 12 at lunch and dinner. When that is the case he prescribes meds and / or insulin. You will also see that tomatoes and all fruit except rhubarb are on his "no-no" list. As other people have pointed out, you can get vitamin C from many vegetables. It is extremely improbable that you have ever suffered from scurvy, which would not develop until you had been completely deprived of vitamin c for a very long time.
     
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